Sniping

Ask and discuss policy about game conduct and rules.

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D&B
 
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Sniping

Postby D&B » Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:54 pm #488556

I'll preface with some examples:

In league and Dota, if you set up a stream, it is up to you to obscure the minimap and add a delay if you knowingly expose yourself tp revealing round crucial information.

In CSGO and R6S, likewise, you are voluntarily opening yourself up to being seen, so a delay in the stream is recommendes since the player is the one exposing themselves.

With that being said, if a player exposes himself by revealing round crucial information, which infringes on some metagaming rulea caused by their own actions (and inactions if no delay is inputted,) how the fuck is it good policy to note people for carelessnes in their part?

How do you even start confirming between metagaming and stream sniping if you can't log how they get their position without pulling at thin straws which could or could not be fake?
Spoiler:
[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?

J_Madison wrote:that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you

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Re: Sniping

Postby Tlaltecuhtli » Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:07 pm #488557

streaming is impossible to manage as having any interaction with antagonists ll give anyone watching an advantage, they should be outright valid to kill to solve any problem

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Re: Sniping

Postby cedarbridge » Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:24 pm #488559

Why do you feel that people who seek metagaming information should be protected from their actions? League and Dota put the burden of information protection on their players because their burden of encforcement is substantially higher and would require substantially more information and effort to prove than ours. The way you present that is also misleading as there are games that do and have punished the players doing the sniping rather than putting the full burden on the victim of said sniping.

Our rules exist to protect against bad faith actors. Who in this scenario is acting in bad faith? The guy who streams the game to his audience with strict instructions that they not attempt to influence the round (as GTAV streamers currently do on pain of banning the viewers in question if they're caught metagaming or passing information between channels, etc) or the players who intentionally seek out a streamer's channel to harvest as much information as they can in order to fuck with the streamer or otherwise gain metagaming information with witch to influence the round?

Tlaltecuhtli wrote:streaming is impossible to manage as having any interaction with antagonists ll give anyone watching an advantage, they should be outright valid to kill to solve any problem

Glad we got the "just make them valid" shitpost out of the way early.

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Re: Sniping

Postby Malkraz » Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:05 am #488671

does this mean i can start broadcasting round-effecting information in a discord voice channel
just dont join it ok
Franklin Khan says, " Well I know who I'm metagrudging from now on "
Istoprocent: You and Rock Steele definitely metabuddies, proving metacomms will take time but eventually people will figure it out.
Declan Cooper asks, " does rock steel have autism? "
Erik489: Malkraz, I gotta ask, and please be honest. Do you metacomm with Rock Steel?
Lumbermancer: also rock should be killed every round
Willy Willee says, " And he kept spam-tabling me, while his metafriend came over "
ATHATH: Rock Steel, I fucking hate you with a passion. I was alive on the station for less than a minute, you absolute cunt you CREMATING ASSHOLE I GENUINELY *HATE* YOU
Adam Karlsson says, " i just want rock " Shaun McFall says, " you know you'll get harshly punished for this right " Adam Karlsson says, " oh i know "
Aidan Duncan says, " Once again, Rock Steel is the fucking worst person on the station "
Twaticus: malk i hate you why do you ruin everything
Alijah Petrov says, " Actually then, im just gonna start robusting rock steel every time i see him "
Adolph Weinstein says, " I like how we have a wizard onboard, and the only person causing shit is Rock "
[Common] Most Likely Malfunction states, " BORG RETURN TO THE CLONEER AND ISPOSE OF ROCK STEELS BODY. "

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cedarbridge
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Re: Sniping

Postby cedarbridge » Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:09 am #488672

Malkraz wrote:does this mean i can start broadcasting round-effecting information in a discord voice channel
just dont join it ok

No and you already knew it didn't before you asked.

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Re: Sniping

Postby Screemonster » Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:26 am #488683

love to have my otherwise stealthy greentext denied because a streamer on the other end of the map died in an unrelated incident five minutes ago and a sec player saw them streaming deadchat

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Re: Sniping

Postby oranges » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:45 pm #488735

cedarbridge wrote:
Malkraz wrote:does this mean i can start broadcasting round-effecting information in a discord voice channel
just dont join it ok

No and you already knew it didn't before you asked.

this is a really stupid position to put the admin team in

now they have to pretend one set of meta info revealing is fine, but the other set is not.

Stupid
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Re: Sniping

Postby Mickyan » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:55 pm #488738

You seem to misunderstand the practice of adding a delay to a stream as being a choice rather than being done out of necessity

In other words stream sniping is something only dickheads do and we don't have to put up with it since metagaming is against the rules and we have admins available to ban said dickheads
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Re: Sniping

Postby iamgoofball » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:32 am #488785

There's a way we could actually handle this, maybe.

CS:GO recently implemented a streamer mode that censors everyone's name, appearance, mutes voice chat, and hides the server name and most text chat.

We could implement something like this maybe. Make everyone a bald guy or girl, give everyone peace walker style code names, strip OOC, the server name, administrator names in ahelps, admin rank names, and round end/lobby sounds. Also the lobby screen could be made more generic too.

Hell, maybe we could get away with a second viewport popup that has all of this maybe, so you could stream the second viewport and hide the actual game.

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Re: Sniping

Postby Cobby » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:47 am #488804

I don't think that would be fun for the streamer. It would also be pretty obvious if someone starts calling people by their pretend names.

If you're nutty enough to stream SS13, I would think your intentions are to show viewers the wacky scenarios that can happen. That said, I think being able to see characters and know who they are is important.

To make matters worse, this option wouldn't mean much when we don't monopolize the ss13 community. Not only are there community exclusive features players could use to narrow down which server a streamer was on, but simply implementing that codeside doesn't mean other communities (and certainly not other codebases) are going to use it as well.

Personally I'd just prefer we keep streaming minimized so that if there's going to be snipers, it's few and far between and isn't constantly impacting how other people play. I don't think SS13 was made to be streamer-friendly anyways lol.
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Re: Sniping

Postby cedarbridge » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:25 am #488820

oranges wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:
Malkraz wrote:does this mean i can start broadcasting round-effecting information in a discord voice channel
just dont join it ok

No and you already knew it didn't before you asked.

this is a really stupid position to put the admin team in

now they have to pretend one set of meta info revealing is fine, but the other set is not.

Stupid

If I tell somebody who does not play the game or doesn't play on TG "ha, <funny thing> just happened in my round in SS13" is that metagaming? Of course not. Two players are not sharing information and nobody is seeking information for use in the context of the game itself. The same thing occurs with streaming. The streamer shows their audience (who are not players and not on the server) information in real time or with a delay about the game. This is not metagaming because there are not two players and no player is seeking round information. If there are players seeking out the streams for the purpose of gleaning whatever in-game information then that person doing the sniping /is/ metagaming or attempting to metagame and is in the wrong.

As said before, its very easy to know when somebody is sniping a stream.

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Re: Sniping

Postby Rustledjimm » Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:03 pm #488838

iamgoofball wrote:There's a way we could actually handle this, maybe.

CS:GO recently implemented a streamer mode that censors everyone's name, appearance, mutes voice chat, and hides the server name and most text chat.

We could implement something like this maybe. Make everyone a bald guy or girl, give everyone peace walker style code names, strip OOC, the server name, administrator names in ahelps, admin rank names, and round end/lobby sounds. Also the lobby screen could be made more generic too.

Hell, maybe we could get away with a second viewport popup that has all of this maybe, so you could stream the second viewport and hide the actual game.



Did goof just have a smart idea.

Problem is we have so few streamers there aren't going to be many users.

Also the eternal problem of who is gonna code it.
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Re: Sniping

Postby lmwevil » Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:22 pm #488840

jimm skipped the thread after seeing goof's post, wouldn't work because of people flatout calling eachother names or w/e - also we shouldn't need to cater to people who want to stream an autistic atmos simulator

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Re: Sniping

Postby iamgoofball » Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:38 pm #488845

lmwevil wrote:jimm skipped the thread after seeing goof's post, wouldn't work because of people flatout calling eachother names or w/e - also we shouldn't need to cater to people who want to stream an autistic atmos simulator

Not if you did the alternate-viewport thing and just kept the chatbox out of that. Stream with the alternative viewport, play on the normal viewport.

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Re: Sniping

Postby confused rock » Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:54 pm #488846

If you’re happy to play ss13 with baldies with fake names then you’re the wrong kind of player
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Re: Sniping

Postby Plapatin » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:28 pm #488851

Cobby wrote: I don't think SS13 was made to be streamer-friendly anyways lol.
wesoda25 wrote:i had a dream that me and some friends were like in this tribal village and we were all doing cocaine around this massive bonfire and I kept seeing all these foreshadowing elements that we were gonna die but i just did more cocaine

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Re: Sniping

Postby WarbossLincoln » Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:34 pm #488855

Does this happen enough to warrant code or policy?

When a well known streamer casts SS13 the admin team is already going overtime to deal with the influx of new players. They'll also be on the lookout for metagaming. I would think that amount of actual stream sniping to ruin round is pretty small and could be rooted out as admins go about their business.
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Re: Sniping

Postby Rustledjimm » Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:45 pm #488856

WarbossLincoln wrote:Does this happen enough to warrant code or policy?

When a well known streamer casts SS13 the admin team is already going overtime to deal with the influx of new players. They'll also be on the lookout for metagaming. I would think that amount of actual stream sniping to ruin round is pretty small and could be rooted out as admins go about their business.



You're forgetting you are in a community with an abnormally high amount of rules lawyers who demands rules for everything so they can try to lawyer their way out of the rules.
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Re: Sniping

Postby WarbossLincoln » Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:51 pm #488858

True
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Re: Sniping

Postby D&B » Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:48 pm #488868

WarbossLincoln wrote:True


Much harder to cross the lines in the sand when they're cemented.

This thread sprung up from a recent ban in which someone posted the link to their stream in OOC and then accused people of sniping. It seems dumb to me to be allowed to do fhis since if there were no admins on to check or constantly surpervise both the stream and server side to side, you'd have to err on the side of the streamer without any way of making sure they're being truthful (Unless you require them to also record the stream, but then you're making administrators responsible for watching a video however long the stream is)
Spoiler:
[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?

J_Madison wrote:that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you

ColonicAcid wrote:and with enough practise i too could blow my own dick so well that only the gods know how it feels.

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Re: Sniping

Postby oranges » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:57 pm #488890

cedarbridge wrote:
oranges wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:
Malkraz wrote:does this mean i can start broadcasting round-effecting information in a discord voice channel
just dont join it ok

No and you already knew it didn't before you asked.

this is a really stupid position to put the admin team in

now they have to pretend one set of meta info revealing is fine, but the other set is not.

Stupid

If I tell somebody who does not play the game or doesn't play on TG "ha, <funny thing> just happened in my round in SS13" is that metagaming? Of course not. Two players are not sharing information and nobody is seeking information for use in the context of the game itself. The same thing occurs with streaming. The streamer shows their audience (who are not players and not on the server) information in real time or with a delay about the game. This is not metagaming because there are not two players and no player is seeking round information. If there are players seeking out the streams for the purpose of gleaning whatever in-game information then that person doing the sniping /is/ metagaming or attempting to metagame and is in the wrong.

As said before, its very easy to know when somebody is sniping a stream.

assumption at the root of your failing to understand why the double standard is incredibly stupid
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Re: Sniping

Postby nullbear » Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:46 pm #489155

Last I heard, streamers have been banned because by streaming, they're providing a means for metacomms, and many servers have rules requiring that streamers have a minimum delay and notify admins of the stream in progress. I thought tg did this too but... Based on the thread... I guess not?

So... make long delay mandatory for streamers, and require them to report stream in progress.

If they don't, then either when question of another player using the stream for metacomms comes into play, the streamer should ALSO have to face the consequences. And if a stream is found but not reported, just treat it like any other metacomms

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Re: Sniping

Postby cedarbridge » Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:26 pm #489167

nullbear wrote:Last I heard, streamers have been banned because by streaming, they're providing a means for metacomms, and many servers have rules requiring that streamers have a minimum delay and notify admins of the stream in progress. I thought tg did this too but... Based on the thread... I guess not?

So... make long delay mandatory for streamers, and require them to report stream in progress.

If they don't, then either when question of another player using the stream for metacomms comes into play, the streamer should ALSO have to face the consequences. And if a stream is found but not reported, just treat it like any other metacomms

The streamers in question were banned not for providing a means for metacomms but because they were on their streams metacommunicating with others. I know. I banned two of them.

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Re: Sniping

Postby bandit » Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:13 pm #489254

iamgoofball wrote:There's a way we could actually handle this, maybe.

CS:GO recently implemented a streamer mode that censors everyone's name, appearance, mutes voice chat, and hides the server name and most text chat.

We could implement something like this maybe. Make everyone a bald guy or girl, give everyone peace walker style code names, strip OOC, the server name, administrator names in ahelps, admin rank names, and round end/lobby sounds. Also the lobby screen could be made more generic too.

Hell, maybe we could get away with a second viewport popup that has all of this maybe, so you could stream the second viewport and hide the actual game.


so a roleplay game stripped of every roleplay element
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Re: Sniping

Postby Grazyn » Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:31 pm #489269

nullbear wrote:Last I heard, streamers have been banned because by streaming, they're providing a means for metacomms, and many servers have rules requiring that streamers have a minimum delay and notify admins of the stream in progress. I thought tg did this too but... Based on the thread... I guess not?

So... make long delay mandatory for streamers, and require them to report stream in progress.

If they don't, then either when question of another player using the stream for metacomms comes into play, the streamer should ALSO have to face the consequences. And if a stream is found but not reported, just treat it like any other metacomms

So ghost mode should be removed because It "provides a means to metacom"... Acting on information learned from metacom is bannable, or metacomming for that purpose. You can learn the AI is malf as a ghost after dying for unrelated reasons, you're still not allowed to act on it if you get cloned. That's the same as learning it from a stream.

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Re: Sniping

Postby confused rock » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:11 pm #489271

why don't we allow ick ock then, grazyn? listening to shit in ooc is as useful for metacomm as watching a stream.

who gives a fuck about streamers it's not different from metacomm
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Re: Sniping

Postby Grazyn » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:13 pm #489282

Because it ruins Immersion

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Re: Sniping

Postby iamgoofball » Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:09 am #489308

bandit wrote:
iamgoofball wrote:There's a way we could actually handle this, maybe.

CS:GO recently implemented a streamer mode that censors everyone's name, appearance, mutes voice chat, and hides the server name and most text chat.

We could implement something like this maybe. Make everyone a bald guy or girl, give everyone peace walker style code names, strip OOC, the server name, administrator names in ahelps, admin rank names, and round end/lobby sounds. Also the lobby screen could be made more generic too.

Hell, maybe we could get away with a second viewport popup that has all of this maybe, so you could stream the second viewport and hide the actual game.


so a roleplay game stripped of every roleplay element

Are you just physically unable to read or do you just ignore the last line where I specifically say to give a viewport that is just for streamers to show to their audience? So that the streamer gets the original experience?

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Re: Sniping

Postby confused rock » Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:27 am #489311

yes I mean who fuck gives about streamers as in why are we giving them rights
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Re: Sniping

Postby PKPenguin321 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:30 am #489314

iamgoofball wrote:
bandit wrote:
iamgoofball wrote:There's a way we could actually handle this, maybe.

CS:GO recently implemented a streamer mode that censors everyone's name, appearance, mutes voice chat, and hides the server name and most text chat.

We could implement something like this maybe. Make everyone a bald guy or girl, give everyone peace walker style code names, strip OOC, the server name, administrator names in ahelps, admin rank names, and round end/lobby sounds. Also the lobby screen could be made more generic too.

Hell, maybe we could get away with a second viewport popup that has all of this maybe, so you could stream the second viewport and hide the actual game.


so a roleplay game stripped of every roleplay element

Are you just physically unable to read or do you just ignore the last line where I specifically say to give a viewport that is just for streamers to show to their audience? So that the streamer gets the original experience?

he was pretty clearly talking about the viewers
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Re: Sniping

Postby cedarbridge » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:08 am #489330

confused rock wrote:why don't we allow ick ock then, grazyn? listening to shit in ooc is as useful for metacomm as watching a stream.

who gives a fuck about streamers it's not different from metacomm

How did you think this post was at all responding to the post above you? IC in OOC and streaming have two entirely different audiences. They're not even comparable.

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Re: Sniping

Postby confused rock » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:18 am #489336

You are wrong.
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Re: Sniping

Postby Incomptinence » Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:50 am #489346

Just ban the streamer duh.

I thought that was the policy actually it lines up with ic in ooc and meta coms rules.

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Re: Sniping

Postby Grazyn » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:52 am #489358

There's a policy thread where the previous administration explicitly said that streaming isn't bannable.

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=18090

I can't see the harm in allowing streaming and I see benefits for both us and the streamer

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Re: Sniping

Postby Incomptinence » Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:09 am #489447

A foolish make work policy just forbid streaming and ban streamers it's much less work and more fair really.

New player sees streamer playing game is attracted to play game too misses or doesn't listen to any disclaimers about metagaming cops a ban because a too gentle administration left an opened fire hydrant of IC in OOC erupting into the street.

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Re: Sniping

Postby cedarbridge » Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:41 am #489460

Incomptinence wrote:A foolish make work policy just forbid streaming and ban streamers it's much less work and more fair really.

New player sees streamer playing game is attracted to play game too misses or doesn't listen to any disclaimers about metagaming cops a ban because a too gentle administration left an opened fire hydrant of IC in OOC erupting into the street.

>new player doesn't listen to warnings and doesn't read the rules
>cops ban
>but its not his fault he didn't read the rules its the guy who showed him the game!

Weren't you just talking about fairness?

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Re: Sniping

Postby Incomptinence » Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:48 am #489495

Not like someone could start watching a stream late and miss a disclaimer if any.

It's more fair and efficient to cut off the source than to let it incriminate others willy nilly. Streaming is utterly incompatible and they can just stick to putting footage on youtube post round like sensible people.

Not saying people abusing this torrent of audio visual meta info shouldn't be banned but that it isn't fair to have the streamer vomiting a pestilential river of things that could get people banned, this is like leaving giant pile of cocaine sitting in the middle of a public park be completely legal while everyone who touches it gets thrown in the slammer. Treat the cause not the symptom.

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Re: Sniping

Postby cedarbridge » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:34 am #489498

Incomptinence wrote:Not like someone could start watching a stream late and miss a disclaimer if any.

It's more fair and efficient to cut off the source than to let it incriminate others willy nilly. Streaming is utterly incompatible and they can just stick to putting footage on youtube post round like sensible people.

Not saying people abusing this torrent of audio visual meta info shouldn't be banned but that it isn't fair to have the streamer vomiting a pestilential river of things that could get people banned, this is like leaving giant pile of cocaine sitting in the middle of a public park be completely legal while everyone who touches it gets thrown in the slammer. Treat the cause not the symptom.

Disclaimer or not, the player is choosing not to read the rules and then choosing to break them. What you're suggesting is about as valid as banning anyone who makes a youtube video of one of their rounds and posts it later, encouraging others to play on that server too. Maybe they skipped over the disclaimer and then started breaking rules without reading them. Obviously they'd never have come to the server and played without the video so its the video's fault they broke the rules.

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Dax Dupont
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Re: Sniping

Postby Dax Dupont » Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:28 pm #489520

Streaming should be banned fully.

It's a retarded standard to permaban people for metacomms and then go around telling streamers it's okay because they are only broadcasting it.

If I IC in OOC I get first a warning and then escalating bans. If I was actively talking about the round in a voice chat where other SS13 players may hear it I would get banned even though I'm not getting advantages from it.

HOWEVER ITS ALL OKAY IF YOU DO IT ON TWITCH/YT?????

It's an absolute fucking retarded double standard. You can't even argue 'oh it works for other games' because there's almost no other game that has the unique requirements. It's like streaming a poker game but people who are playing can watch it and see each others cards.

But considering the retarded wanted of several admins to allow this because 'it gains more players!!!!' at least try to fucking limit it.

I don't understand how the administration can even remotely support streaming except for maybe that charity stream for children hospitals we had once or twice where it was made clear to players why, when and how. Which is an isolated event.

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Re: Sniping

Postby cedarbridge » Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:46 pm #489523

Dax Dupont wrote:Streaming should be banned fully.

It's a retarded standard to permaban people for metacomms and then go around telling streamers it's okay because they are only broadcasting it.

If I IC in OOC I get first a warning and then escalating bans. If I was actively talking about the round in a voice chat where other SS13 players may hear it I would get banned even though I'm not getting advantages from it.

HOWEVER ITS ALL OKAY IF YOU DO IT ON TWITCH/YT?????

It's an absolute fucking retarded double standard. You can't even argue 'oh it works for other games' because there's almost no other game that has the unique requirements. It's like streaming a poker game but people who are playing can watch it and see each others cards.

But considering the retarded wanted of several admins to allow this because 'it gains more players!!!!' at least try to fucking limit it.

I don't understand how the administration can even remotely support streaming except for maybe that charity stream for children hospitals we had once or twice where it was made clear to players why, when and how. Which is an isolated event.

Next we should ban for turning around and telling your roommate "Hey, I played this game and thing just happened. Pretty funny right? By your standard, that is metacommunication even though the person being spoken to is not a player and may never become a player. "If I was talking in voice chat where other players may hear" is not the standard. Its either a yes or a no. Are there other players present such that you're actively and intentionally sharing information with them? That's a ban. Are you existing in a discord voice chat while playing without knowledge of any other players? Who the hell is going to try to uphold that ban? Rule 3 bans acts of bad faith to exchange in-game information to other players. You should be able to distinguish this.

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Re: Sniping

Postby Cobby » Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:07 pm #489525

I think the issue is that you /don't/ know your audience and you should take the conservative route in a game where information is everything. In terms of the roommate example above, it would be metacommunication if they started getting on their computer to play ss13 /w you and you still let them watch your screen while you're both actively playing.

Personally I don't care about if the streamer gets metagrudged to hell and back, they knew that possibility going into the game and broadcasting it live. My main issue with streaming is that it forcibly opts in others who are trying to play the game legitimately and puts them in situations they wouldn't otherwise have been in because someone is basically permitting real time screen-cheating. In that way, I find that streaming the game shows little consideration for others who are playing the game, making it somewhat bad-faith to begin with.
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Re: Sniping

Postby Dax Dupont » Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:08 pm #489526

cedarbridge wrote:
Dax Dupont wrote:Streaming should be banned fully.

It's a retarded standard to permaban people for metacomms and then go around telling streamers it's okay because they are only broadcasting it.

If I IC in OOC I get first a warning and then escalating bans. If I was actively talking about the round in a voice chat where other SS13 players may hear it I would get banned even though I'm not getting advantages from it.

HOWEVER ITS ALL OKAY IF YOU DO IT ON TWITCH/YT?????

It's an absolute fucking retarded double standard. You can't even argue 'oh it works for other games' because there's almost no other game that has the unique requirements. It's like streaming a poker game but people who are playing can watch it and see each others cards.

But considering the retarded wanted of several admins to allow this because 'it gains more players!!!!' at least try to fucking limit it.

I don't understand how the administration can even remotely support streaming except for maybe that charity stream for children hospitals we had once or twice where it was made clear to players why, when and how. Which is an isolated event.

Next we should ban for turning around and telling your roommate "Hey, I played this game and thing just happened. Pretty funny right? By your standard, that is metacommunication even though the person being spoken to is not a player and may never become a player. "If I was talking in voice chat where other players may hear" is not the standard. Its either a yes or a no. Are there other players present such that you're actively and intentionally sharing information with them? That's a ban. Are you existing in a discord voice chat while playing without knowledge of any other players? Who the hell is going to try to uphold that ban? Rule 3 bans acts of bad faith to exchange in-game information to other players. You should be able to distinguish this.


The difference is you KNOW your roommate isn't playing.
With streaming you are showing it to people who may(and probably are) be playing

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Re: Sniping

Postby cedarbridge » Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:13 pm #489528

Cobby wrote:Personally I don't care about if the streamer gets metagrudged to hell and back, they knew that possibility going into the game and broadcasting it live.

We should be concerned about it only to the degree that a the griefers in question are going out of their way to target somebody through OOC information. I'm not sold by the "they knew the risks so they deserve it." line.

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Re: Sniping

Postby Grazyn » Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:25 pm #489530

"they were asking for it" is indeed a terrible argument.

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Re: Sniping

Postby Cobby » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:22 pm #489532

I'm not saying it's okay, i'm saying I care way more about the people they're affecting than them.
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Re: Sniping

Postby confused rock » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:25 pm #489533

wtf i believe that it's possible for dax to have opinions I agree completely with now????
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Re: Sniping

Postby Grazyn » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:27 pm #489545

Cobby wrote:I'm not saying it's okay, i'm saying I care way more about the people they're affecting than them.

Banning the streamer is really a stretch though, there's plenty of games that can have rounds ruined by streaming (mafia-like games, town of salem etc. ) and they still don't ban streamers.

Hate the sniper, not the streamer.

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Re: Sniping

Postby Cobby » Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:28 pm #489548

Grazyn wrote:
Cobby wrote:I'm not saying it's okay, i'm saying I care way more about the people they're affecting than them.

Banning the streamer is really a stretch though, there's plenty of games that can have rounds ruined by streaming (mafia-like games, town of salem etc. ) and they still don't ban streamers.

Hate the sniper, not the streamer.


In Social Games like TOS/Throne of Lies/etc. it's relatively easier to log since you don't see someone do X on the gamescreen, you get text saying "you see X". Even then, it's difficult to claim someone is sniping in those games since there's plenty roles with investigation capabilities and it's literally the job of some roles to frame people regardless of who they are. In SS13 you can also get audio/visual clues, which means if you're not being blatant about it we have to fine tooth comb every log you have and we still might not find anything. Doing that for every sniping claim that isn't "George Melons says 'get rekd (streamer username)'" is going to get annoying real quick real fast. Even just sifting through chat is going to suck tbh.

I don't necessarily "hate" the streamer, but it's extremely difficult to prove sniping or any other meta rule unless they sniper is being blatant about it. I'm willing to bet right now there are people playing who are being influenced ICly by information they obtained OOCly and we don't know it.

If you guys are okay with that risk then fine whatever, but I personally would rather minimize meta opportunities where we can. I think the best option is treat streaming just like metagaming outside of uncommon occasions (such as the charity event) where admins have forward notice and we can PB if needed (assuming the sniper is just joining the server).
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Re: Sniping

Postby cedarbridge » Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:50 pm #489549

Cobby wrote:we can PB if needed (assuming the sniper is just joining the server).

Pretty easy to avoid ride-alongs by just having the person streaming not show the top line of the window that shows the server.

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Re: Sniping

Postby Farquaar » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:53 am #489570

Maybe I'm just an old fogey, but I fail to see why SS13 is the kind of game that would be good if streamed live in the first place.

"Alright chat, should I pie this guy? Type 1 for pie and 2 for no pie. I'm getting a lot of ones here. Alright, we're gonna throw a pie at 'em. Let me just type out a message over the radio here to lure him back.... Just got a $10 donation from DIGBICK98, who says we should tie him up and put him in a dress. Type 1 for dress and 2 for no dress. I'm getting a lot of ones here. Alright, we're gonna put a dress on 'em"

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