hurting mechs = human harmies?

[imsxz]

Bottom post of the previous page:

mechas dying has a 33% chance or something like that to explode the pilot on delete. i barely ever see borgs respect this fact.

[Karp]

Silicons have less of a reason to murder holoparasites than mechs and they're given a pass on that, killing mechs should be completely fine regardless of effect

[terranaut]

To solve this issue is pretty easy. Remove critical mech failures.

Fuck off.

[NecromancerAnne]

In the same post I suggested moving to a more consistent system to weaken them from crippling damage and allow for borgs to fight them. In that same post I even said they were a big threat to mechs so overall the change would be a nerf.

What part of the current system do you like that justifies keeping it around as opposed to one that not only works better but actually reduces the problem mechs currently have of being nearly fully functioning up until they are hit with bad RNG (and some of them can be ignored, like gas leak and short circuit)? You have to luck out or spam the mech with a lot of fast ticks of damage to ever see critical failures.

[terranaut]

A good mech pilot can and will fuck up your day with a well-placed rocket and if he sucks he'll just spray buckshot down your hallway or set it on fire with the incinerator rounds. Due to t4 parts a bluespace battery will last for-fucking-ever so no need for power generation. Add in the self-repair module and its hard to bring down a mech if you cant burst it down, which is difficult if you don't have your own. I honestly don't see how an engiborg will 1v1 a mech with a repair droid if you remove RNG critical failures because he certainly can't just fight you head on and DPS race you or hope to successfully circlestrafe you while you hit nothing. I haven't checked but I'm gonna assume a single SRM will btfo a borg like it btfos mechs and carbons, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
if you want to remove critical failures then force tracking beacons on mechs so if they want to go wild they have to blow up the control console first, outing them as tater fagets and still leaving the option of building a new one and shutting him down.

[NecromancerAnne]

It's RNG if a borg is stunned by rockets but they're usually not. That said, rockets are good against exactly one person at a time and have a cooldown between shots. They're not very hot against non-mechs compared to just shooting them with your various other gun options. People overhype the SRM against crew. They don't do too bad against borgs but they still have the problem of the borg just scooting away to be repaired if it didn't get stunned. And if you miss that's an opportunity for them to sneak in hits. And if you pointblank a borg with an SRM you are liable to wreck yourself horribly so even if it is a suicide rush it's still less risky for a borg than a human.

Also repair drone is complete shit and if you think that has any relevance you honestly don't know shit about mechs. Something that not only wastes a slot but barely does more than a tiny percentage of repairs for a eventually fairly significant chunk of power is a joke. You are better off with armor plating and using it to soak more of the damage you would have otherwise repairwd with the drone.

[terranaut]

My main use of mechs is when I happen to be nuke ops. I've used to give it away to the first guy who asks for it but now I just try to force myself into a mech, preferably a Mauler, and just SRM everybody who comes walking at me and that includes crew with Ion Rifles and I haven't lost a single round doing that yet.
The only time I died in a Mech was when I accidentally killed myself like a dipshit by rocketting myself when I clicked the window to regain focus after tabbing for a moment.

[NecromancerAnne]

TBH I think the people you are facing are complete trash and that nukie mechs are walking toasters ready to pop at any moment. Station mechs are head and shoulders above nukie mechs due to custom setup and maximum parts.

Sometimes things that expensive are worse.

[zxaber]

In my experience the self repair droid is so slow that it would be quicker to just build yourself a new mech if it has taken any significant damage. A repair droid is a wasted slot and you're better off finding a quiet hallway to hop out and use your welder.

For all the damage and destruction that a mech can do, it struggles if someone circles around. Even with the strafe disable hotkey I added, mechs turn so ridiculously slow that once you're in close range, you just bash it down with an extinguisher and move as soon as it rotates. The real danger when fighting a syndi mech isn't the mech, it's the other ops that should be providing support to counter this. Combat mechs are powerhouses, but cheesing a lone one isn't hard. It really doesn't help when you're struggling with fighting something in your face and then you suddenly lose control of what direction you walk in just because lol RNG.

Both Gygaxs and Phazons have abilities that help with this issue, but the power drain is intense. You will drain out a bluespace cell on a Gygax within minutes just from moving if leave the speed setting on.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

The mental gymnastics for people in this thread to say that “I hit the thing a human is in with a weapon and the human got hurt” is unintuitive is incredible

[carshalash]

If this means anyone damaging a mech is bad this should be REALLY rethought.

[Yakumo_Chen]

It's RNG if a borg is stunned by rockets but they're usually not. That said, rockets are good against exactly one person at a time and have a cooldown between shots. They're not very hot against non-mechs compared to just shooting them with your various other gun options. People overhype the SRM against crew. They don't do too bad against borgs but they still have the problem of the borg just scooting away to be repaired if it didn't get stunned. And if you miss that's an opportunity for them to sneak in hits. And if you pointblank a borg with an SRM you are liable to wreck yourself horribly so even if it is a suicide rush it's still less risky for a borg than a human.

The biggest thing is that it's an instant stun alongside the fact that it will probably KO or outright kill anyone hit by it. When you're fighting against a mech, you have no options to stun it and when there's only one guy with an ion rifle or some kind of explosive (like another mech), as a mech you only have to kill that one guy and you've pretty much won the war. Missiles are also one of the best overall weapons against other mechs, which is the main counter to a mech. Unless an AI is driving it, you're guaranteed to ruin someone's day with a missile and can land it, which isn't that hard if they're in a slow ass mech. You could also just run 2 or three slots of missiles to lower the cooldown time of firing.

The threat of missiles is the main problem since usually people don't lemmings mob into a mech, usually you're fighting one person at a time, maybe two, and you can always duck into a maint tunnel or through a wall or something and force people to come at you single file, or just switch to a different weapon if there's too many people to fight.

Close range against mechs is a joke and a consistently fucking awful idea. Mech punches are a guaranteed stun against everything that can be stunned (humans and borgs). When all you have to do as a mech is back up against a wall it's an extremely bad idea to try to take on a mech that is actively rampaging. God forbid it's a gygax and it can just run you over for a stun, doesn't even have to aim.

Mechs don't usually have power issues if xenobio is doing anything at all, yellow cells are infinite energy you're unlikely to exhaust unless you're gygax running for long periods of time. if not, a BRPED holds infinite power cells, and it only takes a half a minute to change them out if you know what you're doing, along with the fact you can fix any criticals at the same time while you're at it.

[4dplanner]

you just bash it down with an extinguisher

genuinely 1v1 me smh

[NecromancerAnne]

Tbh SRM missiles could be removed and nothing would be lost.

And if not then either allowing borgs to smack mechs or making mech critical failures be nonharmful at the very least opens up borgs to being able to challenge mechs as they should be.

[cedarbridge]

This has stopped being a policy discussion hasn't it? I'm pretty sure we established that hitting a mech is not hitting a human and now we're just kibitzing about mech armor and missiles.

[PKPenguin321]

This has stopped being a policy discussion hasn't it? I'm pretty sure we established that hitting a mech is not hitting a human and now we're just kibitzing about mech armor and missiles.

Nope, no consensus or headmin statement here

[Hulkamania]

Attacking a mech with a human inside it is not human harm.

Borgs do a lot of things that can "potentially" cause human harm. They can do experimental SM setups, expose areas to space, attempt to disarm a bomb among many others. We do not penalize cyborgs for these actions, and should not do so here either. Mechs do not explode in the current state when destroyed, however when they suffer burn damage (or EMP damage which is suffered as burn on a mech) there is a chance at an internal fire. A borg has no reasonable way to know that this has occurred beyond the person inside saying as much. As such, unless the person inside says they're on fire the borg is under no obligation to not try to stop them from murdering the crew.

Silicon players shouldn't take this as license to go whacking every mech or anything like that, but there's nothing to stop them from attempting to halt a rampaging mech user. If/when the mech user emerges from the suit itself however, if they are injured or on fire the borg should then make every reasonable effort they can to assist them.

This is all in a similar light to the already in place policy regarding holoparasites and cyborgs attacking them.