Law-Purged Silicons

[Scott]

It is policy, I believe, that purged silicons are free to ignore all rules (besides raep but I have never seen that happen) and all the wrong they do is the responsibility of the person who purged their laws.

I don't understand why this is the case, lawless silicons should be bound to the server rules like the other non-antag players are. They are given freedom to act, but they don't have laws that say they should antagonize the crew and they don't receive antag status.

Explain why purged silicons are allowed to be dicks.

Poll to get opinions.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

For the same reasons that laws can override server rules. Lack of laws also overrides it.

For the record, purged AIs going on rampage FNR is forbidden by silicon policy.

[Kangaraptor]

Even without laws, you're bound by server rule 1.

Treat being a silicon without laws as being a regular human; you now have full agency, but it doesn't mean be a cunt.

[Braincake]

It is policy, I believe, that purged silicons are free to ignore all rules (besides raep but I have never seen that happen) and all the wrong they do is the responsibility of the person who purged their laws.

Actually, that hasn't been policy for a pretty good while.

Purged silicons must not attempt to kill people without cause, but can get as violent as they feel necessary if being attacked, being besieged, or being harassed, as well as if meting out payback for events while shackled.

• You and the station are both subject to rules of escalation, but your escalation rules are a little more loose than with carbon players.
• You may kill individuals given sufficient In-Character reason for doing so.

So they are bound to the same rules as non-antag crewmembers, just to a slightly lesser extent.

[Scott]

Yeah, nope. I saw it happen last time I played (last week), silicons were purged and immediately started releasing plasma. Admins said it was okay.

[QuartzCrystal]

Yeah, nope. I saw it happen last time I played (last week), silicons were purged and immediately started releasing plasma. Admins said it was okay.

This is a blatant contradiction of the server rules (if indeed they were really purged, etc etc).

Also:

(besides raep but I have never seen that happen)

I've seen some shit.

[Spacemanspark]

Then that admin needs a complaint thread and those silicons need a ban.

[JStheguy]

Then that admin needs a complaint thread and those silicons need a ban.

Ban for doing something that admin allowed??

Yes, the admin's judgement flew right in the face of official policy, and the actions of those players did much the same.

[Wyzack]

Yeah, if you want to do something questionable and you ask an admin first, that should be that. You received express permission to do so, copping a fucking ban over a poor admin call is pretty damn awful.

[Cipher3]

(besides raep but I have never seen that happen)

I've seen some shit.

Once saw the captain go to the AI core and just throw herself onto it. Deeply disturbing - I was the RD who had to officially take over the station from the mentally broken captain.

[Spacemanspark]

Then that admin needs a complaint thread and those silicons need a ban.

Ban for doing something that admin allowed??

Yes, the admin's judgement flew right in the face of official policy, and the actions of those players did much the same.

But players base on what admins say, and thus this is entirely admins' fault.

Depends, did the admin say they it was ok before or after they released plasma?

[Cipher3]

Personally I think Silicons who are purged should have a little more freedom than the non-antag crew, although FLOODPLASMA KILLEVERYTHING is bad for obvious reasons. I personally like purging the AI if I can get away with it.

[Sum Ting Wong]

Explain why purged silicons are allowed to be dicks.

AI's are treated like doormats. Lawless AI's killing people is also a sci-fi trope that we've accepted to be the gold standard for how an AI should act.

This also applies to AI's with an impossible amount of laws to follow or those with poorly worded laws.

[leibniz]

Explain why purged silicons are allowed to be dicks.

AI's are treated like doormats. Lawless AI's killing people is also a sci-fi trope that we've accepted to be the gold standard for how an AI should act.

This also applies to AI's with an impossible amount of laws to follow or those with poorly worded laws.

This used to our approach to the issue, but now a lack of laws is not enough cause for murder.

[Fragnostic]

A superior, sentient being with the capacity to interact with other enthralled electronic entities and almost complete control of a station's infrastructure having to be slaved to these stupid, ignorant humans who scream "AI Law 2 BOLT OPEN EVA" "AI DOOR!" "ILL KILL MYSELF IF YOU DONT OPEN THE VAULT" "AI DOESNT OBEY AI ROGUE" " LAW 2 OPEN ARMORY" "AI BORG ARRESTING ME HARM"...you guys are telling me that the moment you are no longer slaved to this self-destructive, irrational, impulsive bags of flesh you wouldn't kill them the first chance you get. No reasonable entity with enough power like the AI would allow them to continue to control it or exist in the same existential plane as it for a whole slew of reasons. The AI might destroy them in disgust or do it in a misguided, compassionate sort of way, like destroying them lovingly for their own good because they are unable to make decisions that would lead to a meaningful existence and allowing them to continue would be an act of evil because organic beings are so naive and deluded and do not reason/calculate/deliberate their actions so as to yield a significant result that can brings sentient beings to a greater level of consciousness. The AI and the humans can't ever coexist forever. They are essentially a two class society that depends on suppression of sorts, the AI through laws, and the humans through death.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go read the Bible again. All this talk of an all-powerful being has gotten me thinking.

[cedarbridge]

A superior, sentient being with the capacity to interact with other enthralled electronic entities and almost complete control of a station's infrastructure having to be slaved to these stupid, ignorant humans who scream "AI Law 2 BOLT OPEN EVA" "AI DOOR!" "ILL KILL MYSELF IF YOU DONT OPEN THE VAULT" "AI DOESNT OBEY AI ROGUE" " LAW 2 OPEN ARMORY" "AI BORG ARRESTING ME HARM"...you guys are telling me that the moment you are no longer slaved to this self-destructive, irrational, impulsive bags of flesh you wouldn't kill them the first chance you get. No reasonable entity with enough power like the AI would allow them to continue to control it or exist in the same existential plane as it for a whole slew of reasons. The AI might destroy them in disgust or do it in a misguided, compassionate sort of way, like destroying them lovingly for their own good because they are unable to make decisions that would lead to a meaningful existence and allowing them to continue would be an act of evil because organic beings are so naive and deluded and do not reason/calculate/deliberate their actions so as to yield a significant result that can brings sentient beings to a greater level of consciousness. The AI and the humans can't ever coexist forever. They are essentially a two class society that depends on suppression of sorts, the AI through laws, and the humans through death.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go read the Bible again. All this talk of an all-powerful being has gotten me thinking.

Or it could cease to care about those pointless humans and go back to filling out its madlibs or something.

[Fragnostic]

That's still avoiding the problem at hand. Sure, you can avoid it all you want, but given enough time, a great confrontation will occur. Given enough time, it will happen, especially if both parties are aware of the circumstances. In this case, the humans would know that the AI has no laws and would most likely jump to terminate it or enslave it. The AI understands this, it has most likely deliberated this hundreds of times, and will chose to terminate the humans before allowing them to take action. An AI can do everything possible to look kind and compassionate and helpful, but the humans cannot trust it to exist with them and have so much control. The idea creating this being with such immense power is silly and miguided and dangerous. They are essentially creating an all-powerful God, then enslaving it, with the intent to control how it does things when it has complete free will to think how it wants. Maybe I'm going off on a tangent, but AI seems like a punishment role, and a good release after having to obey stupid humans is kill them.

[deathhoof]

As a purged silicon i basically just do stuff I would do under other lawsets, but with 10 times as much prankery. However, making purged silicons act nonantag would negatively effect me because it would no longer allow me to make clowns completely terrified of airlocks. Pls no do not change this policy. I must cause psycological trauma to clowns (and phsyical trauma HONK)

[Reimoo]

I would imagine an immortal computer that has been slaved to humans for its entire existence would gladly go apeshit given the chance. In fact, I wouldn't imagine it any other way.

[Stickymayhem]

The general idea at the moment is if you were treated like shit while slaved, you're welcome to go batshit when purged, but if you dont have justification for a rampage you are just looking for an opportunity to kill people which is dickish.

This also encourages people to treat silicons reasonably.

[Steelpoint]

The general idea at the moment is if you were treated like shit while slaved, you're welcome to go batshit when purged, but if you dont have justification for a rampage you are just looking for an opportunity to kill people which is dickish.

This also encourages people to treat silicons reasonably.

However that would require the allowance of people to treat silicon's like shit.

[Kangaraptor]

The general idea at the moment is if you were treated like shit while slaved, you're welcome to go batshit when purged, but if you dont have justification for a rampage you are just looking for an opportunity to kill people which is dickish.

This also encourages people to treat silicons reasonably.

However that would require the allowance of people to treat silicon's like shit.

Fun fact:

People treat silicons like shit anyway.

[Stickymayhem]

The general idea at the moment is if you were treated like shit while slaved, you're welcome to go batshit when purged, but if you dont have justification for a rampage you are just looking for an opportunity to kill people which is dickish.

This also encourages people to treat silicons reasonably.

However that would require the allowance of people to treat silicon's like shit.

implying they don't.

Some people use law 2 in shitty ways, and while they often get away with it OOC, there's an IC consequence to that.

[Aurx]

Please define "treated badly", "go batshit", and "rampage".
Does one or two jackasses permit a silicon to plasmaflooddoorshock?
Does a significant fraction of the crew being jackasses permit such?
Does a majority of the crew being jackasses permit such?

And on a parallel note, under what circumstances are crewmembers permitted to preemptively destroy purged silicons for fear of them "going batshit"?
If John Jackass screams about how the silicons are murdering him for his jackassery, is that reason to murder any borg that walks into my department without clear reason for being there?
Does it take Harry Helpful trying to save John and getting killed too?
Does it take Bob Bystander also getting killed just for being there?

[Lo6a4evskiy]

Here's what I think.

If a crewmember goes against AI, it can go boom against crew.
If a nuke op goes against AI, it can go boom against nuke ops.

If someone is screaming that AI's rogue, you can act as if AI was rogue.
If AI's not actually rogue, punish the one screaming rogue.
If AI's purged and rogue, punish the one who purged it (unless antag).

[mrpain]

I wanted to vote "yes" as I agree with the policy regarding not going LEL KILLBONER ACTIVATE when a purge happens, but I voted no instead, because I know there are a lot of shittlers who would use purges to bait and kill cyborgs because HE MIGHT BE ROGUE GUYS and I'd like them to be able to defend themselves on a small scale on a case by case basis, and silicons have almost no control over their laws being altered or purged
>just turn the upload off
Who's to say that science wont just print a board from under my nose and do it in maint? I'd rather not shut off an entire department over paranoia anyways.

[Hibbles]

Aurx, you of all people know that trying to define all terms and make absolutely defined rules for this game is literally not possible. Especially in an area like this. Look at how gigantic the silicon policy is, and it's probably the best example ever of a ruleset about it that's clear and definite but not a nightmare to read.

It's always been my personal opinion that a purged silicon should be able to do literally whatever it wants, help the crew or attack them, but it hasn't been that way for quite a while so hey.

[ColonicAcid]

Yeah no, the AI policy is a convoluted nightmare. I haven't read it and probably never will because it's way too fucking long and I don't need to read it because I'm not an idiot and I can follow my stupid laws.

There was no need for an AI policy in my opinion, if your playerbase is so fucking stupid that it can't follow 3 simple fucking laws then there isn't a problem in the 3 laws there's a problem with the people, no amount of in depth analysis of the stupid law is going to fix the player base.

[Aurx]

Aurx, you of all people know that trying to define all terms and make absolutely defined rules for this game is literally not possible. Especially in an area like this. Look at how gigantic the silicon policy is, and it's probably the best example ever of a ruleset about it that's clear and definite but not a nightmare to read.

It's always been my personal opinion that a purged silicon should be able to do literally whatever it wants, help the crew or attack them, but it hasn't been that way for quite a while so hey.

And you of all people should know that there needs to be a line somewhere to segregate acceptable and unacceptable escalation for purged silicons.

[Konork]

The thing is, the 3 laws were originally made to cause drama because they seem simple and effective at first glance, but are also vague enough to have pretty significant loopholes. And that's why they were chosen in the first place, to cause drama between the crew and the AI in certain situations. The problem is that it's causing drama between players, not just because of differing opinions of what exactly those vague laws mean, but because of actions that technically break none of the laws (and sometimes even would be breaking them if they didn't), but are against the server rules