cedarbridge wrote:Would you be ok with the CMO spacing their hypospray at roundstart just because there's a non-zero chance that there could be a traitor in any number of potential rounds that might want to steal it as an objective? If not, then please explain why one case of pre-reveal antagfuckery is ok but others are not.
I would not be okay that, but I would ALSO not be okay with the warden spacing the armory roundstart. The CMO in your example was "securing" the hypospray by removing it from the places where it's supposed to be (either on the CMO's person or in the CMO's locker), which is less "securing" the hypospray and more like cremating it. A warden who secures the armory but does not remove weapons from it is keeping the weapons where they are supposed to be and keeping them available in case they need to be used.
I propose two criteria for roundstart setups for securing sensitive items and weapons (including those in the Armory, although hopefully this can be generalized to things like the CMO's hypospray, the HoS's armor and hardsuit (even though they're not objective items, they're still very valuable/strong pieces of gamer gear that should be kept secure), and the RD's reactive teleport armor) to determine if they're "legal" or not:
1. Are the items either inside of the Armory, in the rooms of their roundstart locations, on the persons of the people who are supposed to be responsible for them, or currently in use?
2. Are the items still easily and quickly retrievable and usable by people who are authorized to retrieve them (the Warden and the HoS)?
Clarifications for Part 1:
By "in use", I mean things like the reflective vest being worn by a member of sec, flashbangs being given to the clown, a disabler being in the detective's backpack in case he needs to use it to disable someone, etc. While they don't have to be used constantly, they should still be expected/allowed to be used by the people whom they're given to (so you can't just give the reflective vest to some random assistant in order to keep antags from getting their hands on it, although that would run afoul of Part 2).
By "on the persons of the people who are supposed to be responsible for them", I mean that the captain can keep his medal box and jetpack on his person, the CE can keep the blueprints on his person, etc.
I could be persuaded to drop the "still inside of the Armory, " bit of Part 1, meaning that you can't move the captain's jetpack, the HoS's laser gun, etc. to the armory at roundstart (but you could still keep them in their spawn locations, on the person of the people who are supposed to be responsible for them, or on the persons of people who are using them).
Clarifications for Part 2:
For example, if your Armory setup keeps even the HoS and/or the Warden from being able to distribute guns to the crew after a blob is announced, it's an illegal (invalid?) one. If the HoS can't be forced to reveal the location of the Armory's guns to a traitor who's kidnapped, tortured, and/or brainwashed them because they actually don't know where the Armory's guns are (because the warden never told them), it's illegal. If you irradiate all of the weapons in the Armory so that traitors can't use them but the HoS can't pick up an energy gun without instantly dying from radiation, your setup is illegal. If it takes you 10 minutes to disable all of your Armory setup's protection systems, to siphon all of the heated plasma gas out of the Armory, or to search through the pile of Armory items, lightbulbs, and various assorted pieces of trash that you've dumped all onto one tile for an energy gun, it's illegal.
Malkraz wrote:What do you mean I can't put all the weapons in a bluespace bag within a bluespace bag within a bluespace bag inside a locker surrounded by taser turrets inside the armory filled with plasma and a motion sensor wired to an igniter protected by a subverted AI roundstart?
Why are tg admins suppressing my freedom of expression??
This setup would run afoul of Part 2 because the HoS wouldn't be able to grab an energy gun from the armory without taking the time to find and put on an engineering hardsuit (or, if the burning plasma would harm the Armory's items, waiting for the subverted AI to drain all of the plasma out of the Armory so that the items won't get incinerated).
tldr;
Under my proposed revised rule, if a sensitive item (such as a gun or an objective item) isn't either in the Armory, on the person of someone who's supposed to have it, or in the same room that it starts the round in, your setup for securing that item roundstart would be invalid/illegal. Furthermore, if a sensitive item can't be retrieved upon a moment's notice (because you spaced or cremated it, for example, or because you don't know where it is) by the people who are responsible for it (that includes both the warden AND the HoS, so tell the HoS what you're doing to the Armory and/or his locker before you start securing them), your setup would also be invalid/illegal under my proposed revised rule.
