/tg/Station 13

Right now if you ask an admin can you raid the station they'll say no, but I think they should be able to.

Some of my favorite times playing as an ashwalker was times when we killed all the miners and tried to raid cargo (got gunned down in the process but hey) which inevitably caused a pseudo war between the ashwalkers and the station. That time in particular they sent 3 durands and completely destroyed our nest. Everyone was talking about how fun the ashwalker war was after the round ended /and I think it should happen more often.

Now I know what some of you may be thinking, why should we let the free antag actually have a chance to affect the round. To that I say because while that could happen, the vast majority of the time they won't get that far as ashwalker are probably the weakest antag in the game (I have them tied with swarmers but that's just me)

They can't wear shoes so they lose any combat encounter where they step on glass
They can't use guns so they're always at a range disadvantage
Since they aren't actual crew they have no access to anything beyond what they can kill

If people still felt that ashwalkers would be too much dispite all that I would oppose some nerfs, such as the, being unable to breath station air which would force ashwalkers to find some way to bring breathable air onto the station (my idea for this would be some sort of lavaland plant that ashwalkers could use as internals for a very limited amount of time, maybe something as short as 2 or 3 minutes)

But that's just my feelings about it. Do most people have a problem with this idea or do people feel this would make rounds more eventful?

>swarmers are a weak antag

Stopped reading there. They're one of the strongest since they replicate like fucking crazy. You can never truly kill them all unless you get lucky and find the first one.

Xeroxemnas wrote:>swarmers are a weak antag

Stopped reading there. They're one of the strongest since they replicate like fucking crazy. You can never truly kill them all unless you get lucky and find the first one.

I mean individually. Its the same with ashwalkers in that if a miner see a ashwalker on his own he has no excuse for dieing to them

So long as you can justify to the admin asking that someone is protecting the nest, you can probably raid the station with policy as it stands. Ash Walker flavor-text requires that you don't abandon the nest; raiding the station while some lizards remain to protect the nest should be fine so long as you come back afterwards. Often the simplified position from admins will be that you aren't allowed to raid the station; if you're solo Ash Walker then this is absolutely correct as no one would be left to protect the nest. It works better with IC justification and emergent situations; if you're the kind of guy who used ghost to check out the Ash Walker nest location in comparison to the mining base, rushed your way there and basically want to use the role as a free antag roll you can frankly fuck off and stay at lavaland pounding rocks with the rest.

Ash Walkers are honestly kind of weak and before policy shifted on them they would get destroyed most of the time by a fully staffed Cargo department. They were more of a problem on low pop shifts or low experience servers were a experienced player will meta the roll to get free antag. A typical case of nice things being ruined by a few people who run things into the ground.

Since when were ashliggers not allowed to raid the station? I remember this being an infrequent but welcome occurrence not too long ago. When/how/why did it change?

Further, I seem to recall something in the on-spawn flavor text mentioning how the people with the lights in the distance are evil and should be destroyed. Obviously referring to the mining base.

deedubya wrote:Since when were ashliggers not allowed to raid the station? I remember this being an infrequent but welcome occurrence not too long ago. When/how/why did it change?

Further, I seem to recall something in the on-spawn flavor text mentioning how the people with the lights in the distance are evil and should be destroyed. Obviously referring to the mining base.

After someone changed the flavour text to say YOU MUST PROTECT YOUR NEST I've found that admins will tell ashwalkers not to go on the station, at least from my experience.

Its better to just take over the mining station and maybe occasionally raid the station for stuff, like stealing the ORM and then taunting the humans about it. Make the sacrifices come to you.

I agree, Ash Walker invasions are what makes ash walkers fun and relevant at all. It's not even an all-out war half the time; I used to sneak onto the station, break into maint to find a mask and fire suit, and just skulk around looking for dead people. Sec caught me once for being suspicious and dragged me to the brig, and their reaction when they took my mask off and realized I was a Lava Lizard was funnier than shit.

Ash walkers are by design worse off than humans in a frontal assault. They can't wield guns, they get stopped by glass, and they're valid to kill on sight. Restricting them to stay on Lavaland because sometimes they managed to kill people was a sad change.

zxaber wrote:I agree, Ash Walker invasions are what makes ash walkers fun and relevant at all. It's not even an all-out war half the time; I used to sneak onto the station, break into maint to find a mask and fire suit, and just skulk around looking for dead people. Sec caught me once for being suspicious and dragged me to the brig, and their reaction when they took my mask off and realized I was a Lava Lizard was funnier than shit.

Ash walkers are by design worse off than humans in a frontal assault. They can't wield guns, they get stopped by glass, and they're valid to kill on sight. Restricting them to stay on Lavaland because sometimes they managed to kill people was a sad change.

They also can't wear shoes (they slip and get stunned and get hurt on glass/caltrops/d4).

One of my favorite things to do is sneak on and become a janitor. Remember, they do the jobs humans don't want to do!

I enforce it only if i spot a solo ghost metagame rushing the station for free antag

Sandshark808 wrote: One of my favorite things to do is sneak on and become a janitor. Remember, they do the jobs humans don't want to do!

I am totally stealing this gimmick. Ive gone stationside with what few eggs are left after the nest is destroyed before acting as a refugee but stealing jobs is much more hilarious.

Gigapuddi420 wrote:raiding the station while some lizards remain to protect the nest

This right here is the problem with our current ash lizard policy: You're allowed to raid the station, but only if one ash lizard agrees to stay behind and twiddle his thumbs in the nest while the rest of you go and have fun raiding the station. NOBODY wants to be that ash lizard that you HAVE to leave behind to "protect" the nest against a threat that will never come (the only threats to the base are usually miners, who should all be dead by the time that you make a station invasion attempt (simplemobs and megafauna usually stay pretty still)). You can make things a bit prettier by making fancy doors and stuff, I guess, but you don't have the tech to make mega-engineering projects and you can't fight megafauna, farm mobs from tendrils, or explore ruins while "defending the nest", so there's really not much to DO.

In short, our current ash lizard policy encourages ash lizard groups to pressure one unfortunate soul into AFKing in the base while everyone else gets to have all of the fun. I'm SURE that that "left behind" ash walker will DEFINITELY look back fondly upon the round when they were forced by a really weird and arbitrary rule/ruling to stay back at the nest and play house/solitaire while the other ash walkers enacted an Oceans 11 corpse heist on the station's morgue.

Dr_bee wrote:

Sandshark808 wrote: One of my favorite things to do is sneak on and become a janitor. Remember, they do the jobs humans don't want to do!

I am totally stealing this gimmick. Ive gone stationside with what few eggs are left after the nest is destroyed before acting as a refugee but stealing jobs is much more hilarious.

It's the absolute most hilarious gimmick there is, because almost nobody knows you're not a crewmember. Eat rats, department pets, and garbage, clean the station, and generally pitter-patter your little lizard feet around until someone asks why a random is mopping the floors. Hell, if you're determined enough you can even be a doctor!

It's basically illegal alien simulator 2145, and it's beautiful.

ATHATH wrote:

Gigapuddi420 wrote:raiding the station while some lizards remain to protect the nest

This right here is the problem with our current ash lizard policy: You're allowed to raid the station, but only if one ash lizard agrees to stay behind and twiddle his thumbs in the nest while the rest of you go and have fun raiding the station. NOBODY wants to be that ash lizard that you HAVE to leave behind to "protect" the nest against a threat that will never come (the only threats to the base are usually miners, who should all be dead by the time that you make a station invasion attempt (simplemobs and megafauna usually stay pretty still)). You can make things a bit prettier by making fancy doors and stuff, I guess, but you don't have the tech to make mega-engineering projects and you can't fight megafauna, farm mobs from tendrils, or explore ruins while "defending the nest", so there's really not much to DO.

In short, our current ash lizard policy encourages ash lizard groups to pressure one unfortunate soul into AFKing in the base while everyone else gets to have all of the fun. I'm SURE that that "left behind" ash walker will DEFINITELY look back fondly upon the round when they were forced by a really weird and arbitrary rule/ruling to stay back at the nest and play house/solitaire while the other ash walkers enacted an Oceans 11 corpse heist on the station's morgue.

Do you think the favour text could be changed to something like "don't leave lavaland if you're the only ashwalker" or "don't leave until you have killed all the miners"? While I don't think the latter would work out very well the former prevents solo antaging heading straight for the station, maybe encouraging them to farm for eggs for a while until someone else hatches

Honestly just stop trying to turn the lavaland roles into "Mom said it was my turn to antag!!"

By all means, massacre the miners, draw penises on their mining station, lure a megafauna to turn it into a wasteland, but stop trying to get on station so you can justifiably murder people.

At this point I'm just tempted to PR a change that if a ashlizard leaves the lavaland z-level they just implode because they got too far from their beloved tendril.

Imagine being so bad at the game you get killed by an ashligger.

deedubya wrote:Since when were ashliggers not allowed to raid the station? I remember this being an infrequent but welcome occurrence not too long ago. When/how/why did it change?

Further, I seem to recall something in the on-spawn flavor text mentioning how the people with the lights in the distance are evil and should be destroyed. Obviously referring to the mining base.

About 7/8 weeks after Seth's video. Earlier on, I even had one admin(not a head) order me to tell them what admin told me it was still okay to go to the station/raid it after the change was implemented.


It's a real goddamn shame they changed it like they did, ashwalkers really get the piss stomped out of them, so they're really the only team antag where their isn't a very strict master/servant relationship that you could reliably get really good teamwork in.

Id love to be able to raid the station as an ashie again, I personally have always taken the ash walker policy as they cannot enter the station under any reason. The problems with ashies going onto station is alot of shit people ruining the fun for everyone. Also the fact that having an ashie main every single round going to hierophant killing it then proceeding to kill every other fauna with *slow* ease. As fun as it is to kill the entire station with super powerful lavaland loot if it came back I can say with near certainty that super powered ashies would be running around on station killing everyone nearly every shift they spawn.

Naloac wrote:Id love to be able to raid the station as an ashie again, I personally have always taken the ash walker policy as they cannot enter the station under any reason. The problems with ashies going onto station is alot of shit people ruining the fun for everyone. Also the fact that having an ashie main every single round going to hierophant killing it then proceeding to kill every other fauna with *slow* ease. As fun as it is to kill the entire station with super powerful lavaland loot if it came back I can say with near certainty that super powered ashies would be running around on station killing everyone nearly every shift they spawn.

6th House Gang rise up and drive the dogs of the NT Empire out of Lavaland.

Naloac wrote:Id love to be able to raid the station as an ashie again, I personally have always taken the ash walker policy as they cannot enter the station under any reason. The problems with ashies going onto station is alot of shit people ruining the fun for everyone. Also the fact that having an ashie main every single round going to hierophant killing it then proceeding to kill every other fauna with *slow* ease. As fun as it is to kill the entire station with super powerful lavaland loot if it came back I can say with near certainty that super powered ashies would be running around on station killing everyone nearly every shift they spawn.

I wanna know where these ultra robust ashwlakers are that are killing megafauna with just a spear and fuck all healing. If I was a miner and I saw an ash walker walk up with the hireophant club, drake armor and the voice of god I think he deserves to enter the station and fuck shit up

knacker48 wrote:

Naloac wrote:Id love to be able to raid the station as an ashie again, I personally have always taken the ash walker policy as they cannot enter the station under any reason. The problems with ashies going onto station is alot of shit people ruining the fun for everyone. Also the fact that having an ashie main every single round going to hierophant killing it then proceeding to kill every other fauna with *slow* ease. As fun as it is to kill the entire station with super powerful lavaland loot if it came back I can say with near certainty that super powered ashies would be running around on station killing everyone nearly every shift they spawn.

I wanna know where these ultra robust ashwlakers are that are killing megafauna with just a spear and fuck all healing. If I was a miner and I saw an ash walker walk up with the hireophant club, drake armor and the voice of god I think he deserves to enter the station and fuck shit up

They dont have fuck all healing, Normally its from miners or farmed legion cores. Since disaster was run on terry it meant ashies and golems spawned every single round and it lead to ashies mains, *including me* going around wiping out mining killing all the mega fauna and instantly stunning anyone who tried to stop them with voice of god. The only thing that stopped them ending the round every single time was the OOC restriction of not going onto station. killing the Hierophant with a spear is FAR easier than people think it is. the fight plays exactly like a crusher fight and you get some ointment to heal burns you may get. its even easier if you get a single legion core since you can keep running at any damage.

Naloac wrote:Id love to be able to raid the station as an ashie again, I personally have always taken the ash walker policy as they cannot enter the station under any reason. The problems with ashies going onto station is alot of shit people ruining the fun for everyone. Also the fact that having an ashie main every single round going to hierophant killing it then proceeding to kill every other fauna with *slow* ease. As fun as it is to kill the entire station with super powerful lavaland loot if it came back I can say with near certainty that super powered ashies would be running around on station killing everyone nearly every shift they spawn.

I've had multiple admins tell me that if the tendril is destroyed, ashliggers can murderbone anyone who isn't an ashwalker and go anywhere they want to.

And on terms of lavaland loot empowered ashliggers, there are a few lavaland artifacts that are very powerful for ashwalkers, but most are still very situational to be very powerful.
Rod of Aslecius, the Ashwalker holding it can't really fight, can heal enemies, etc.
Katana: Powerful in melee but crew uses guns. And if you throw it for range they can just take it.
Flight Potion: Actually slightly better for ashwalkers than crew since it negates glass shard penalty, but causes hardsuit problems.
Paradox Bag: Can transport gear to baby ashies back at base(and even bodies with bluespace body bags), but requires two ashwalkers to care about helping the rest.

I think it'd be good to revert the "rule". It's really fun to work together as ashwalkers to overcome the crew, and as it stands, oftentimes the crew will ignore ashwalkers(besides maybe a few crewmembers who'll die if they go alone) because the ashies don't present a threat to the overall crew. Meaning mining, roboticists, and sometimes engineers(if they're doing projects which require fucktons of metal/glass) can't do their jobs and no one cares since ashies are out of sight, and therefore out of mind.

knacker48 wrote:

Naloac wrote:Id love to be able to raid the station as an ashie again, I personally have always taken the ash walker policy as they cannot enter the station under any reason. The problems with ashies going onto station is alot of shit people ruining the fun for everyone. Also the fact that having an ashie main every single round going to hierophant killing it then proceeding to kill every other fauna with *slow* ease. As fun as it is to kill the entire station with super powerful lavaland loot if it came back I can say with near certainty that super powered ashies would be running around on station killing everyone nearly every shift they spawn.

I wanna know where these ultra robust ashwlakers are that are killing megafauna with just a spear and fuck all healing. If I was a miner and I saw an ash walker walk up with the hireophant club, drake armor and the voice of god I think he deserves to enter the station and fuck shit up

Heiro is fucking easy, just fuck it's shit up to where it's at half hp and fuck it up again using a crusher. You don't even have to move until you finish and run away(the first time you damage it to 1/2 hp). It just takes a fuck ton of time to locate the heiro and get the necessary gear.
Blood drunk is piss easy too with the right gear.
Others are bastards though with how long they take to finish killing if you heiro club them.

Also with how ashwalkers work start piss poor and need to kill/loot for gear, it takes like 30 minutes for them to get good gear(very rarely great) and get to the station. For them to guarentee great gear by killing relevant megafauna it takes like 50 minutes if they're ultra-robust and don't fuck up. Even those ultra-robust people who can do it, sometimes fuck up and die against one of the megafauna.
Hell I've seen those ultra-robust people as regular miners and fuck up fighting simple fauna and die.

It's gonna happen, but it isn't gonna be every round ashies spawn. If the ultra-robust people are trying their fucking hardest to do it on a consistent basis, it'll be maybe 1/3 rounds when ashies spawn.

Ashwalkers have always been able to raid the station tf?

wesoda25 wrote:Ashwalkers have always been able to raid the station tf?

Not for some time.

Gigapuddi's earlier post does the best job I've seen of summing up the current policy:

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 45#p516276

I've been ghostrole banned for raiding the station as an ashwalker for a day . Just to elaborate, based on at least some admin ruling, it IS against the rules to do so.

Ashliggers are unironically the easiest ghost role to kill.


>only primitive weapons
>can only enter the station from a single point
>will almost always get advance warning either if a miner sees them or a cargo tech when they’re smashing through the mining prep room door
>lizard fetish feet so you can literally throw shards at them for instant KO
>non human so the borgs/ai can go ham

If you suck this much and can’t kill an ashligger I don’t know what to tell you

Qbmax32 wrote:
>can only enter the station from a single point
>will almost always get advance warning either if a miner sees them or a cargo tech when they’re smashing through the mining prep room door

Ashwalkers have 2 permanent points of entry.

They can break through the mining door/windows to reach the shuttle or go down south and take the no-access-required door that leads to a no-access-required shuttle so they can enter the station through arrivals.

If that's not true anymore then someone please tell me. That'd be nice to hear.

The prison shuttle goes right into sec

Qbmax32 wrote:The prison shuttle goes right into sec

There's a public access lavaland shuttle in arrivals now. Anyoneone can go to or leave it from there.

SkeletalElite wrote:

Qbmax32 wrote:The prison shuttle goes right into sec

There's a public access lavaland shuttle in arrivals now. Anyoneone can go to or leave it from there.

Yup, it replaced the gear storage room, which I still contend is one of the most retarded mining base changes to date.

just use your exclusive mining points to buy some now 8)

Cobby wrote:just use your exclusive mining points to buy some now 8)

On that note the revert back to mining points was actually a big nerf to ashwalkers since they can't buy as much from the vendors. I had one round where, for some reason the cmo was in the mining base on his own. I killed him and took his budget card, bought multiple medipens and a diamond pick. It was also the round when they sent mechs to kill us, although one of the gygaxs ran into lava by accident so that was funny

knacker48 wrote:

Cobby wrote:just use your exclusive mining points to buy some now 8)

On that note the revert back to mining points was actually a big nerf to ashwalkers since they can't buy as much from the vendors. I had one round where, for some reason the cmo was in the mining base on his own. I killed him and took his budget card, bought multiple medipens and a diamond pick. It was also the round when they sent mechs to kill us, although one of the gygaxs ran into lava by accident so that was funny

You can still do it but it requires stealing the ORM first. which is hilarious because it basically means ashwalkers do the mining for the station. Win win.

Dr_bee wrote:

knacker48 wrote:

Cobby wrote:just use your exclusive mining points to buy some now 8)

On that note the revert back to mining points was actually a big nerf to ashwalkers since they can't buy as much from the vendors. I had one round where, for some reason the cmo was in the mining base on his own. I killed him and took his budget card, bought multiple medipens and a diamond pick. It was also the round when they sent mechs to kill us, although one of the gygaxs ran into lava by accident so that was funny

You can still do it but it requires stealing the ORM first. which is hilarious because it basically means ashwalkers do the mining for the station. Win win.

Or if you're lucky you can make an alliance with the free golems and get them ores for actually good gear

wait i thought the real point of ghost roles is a chance to get back to the station because they all suck aside from free golems and maybe seed vault and comms agent
now you're telling me the admins in their infinite wisdom have decided it isn't? don't tell me they actually expect the beach roles to roleplay because that never happens

also conflict is fun and exciting unless you're trying to do a job then it's disruptive and irritating

Ashwalkers should for the most part be staying on lavaland, and indeed their flavortext is designed to reflect this.

It was originally changed because having a ghost role that essentially amounted to free antag with some restrictions meant we had a good chunk of the population who would just roll for it every round instead of actually playing. Much like the lavaland syndicate base there is often not really a major reason for you to be going to the station to begin with and doing so would only be inviting conflict amongst the crew and yourself.

However, all that being said we do wish to make the note that if an administrator gives you the go-ahead then in that circumstance you could begin to make your way to the station proper. The event shouldn't be something that happens every single round, nor should you be ahelping about it without some kind of motivation to do so. But if an admin gives you the green light after evaluation the situation then you can proceed.

Get motivation, ask for permission from an admin, go from there.