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Remove Escalation

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:24 pm
by Shadowflame909

Bottom post of the previous page:

A wise person once said to me. If you want any rule changes, you're going to have to get the majority to agree with your philosophy.

Well here are my thoughts about what this rule is doing and has done to /tg/ and how it'd be best to see it go away.

My main theory is that the bad-eggs in the playerbase are burnt-out and can only find any joy in acting like a dick to other players. This has been happening through the mainstay of minor-grief. Like an assistant robbing those yellow gloves, you bought at the arrivals vendor. The chemist making a smoke machine and filling it up with space drugs and lube in the main halls. That janitor, while the ai is going nuclear and commando. As people are rushing to the arrivals pods, he's busy cleaning the halls with water and simply points at the sign five tiles away when people slip.

Yeah, this behavior is common and may very well be the backbone of /tg/. Far before me and others. Yet, going on a psychotic murder tangent should not be an appropriate response to this. My point being we have antagonists there to bring forth tension, disruption, and carnage. Who better to ruin your round than them? Instead of having the most prevalent rule in 90% of the ahelps cause 90% of the problems.

Security teams constantly run a fringe hunting down Shitter Mcreed and Bob Doctorson. The first getting into the spat willingly and as an act to further their dopamine kick, accepting any death or outcome of it. The second honestly just wanting to play the game the way it's meant to be played as a non-antagonist. Instead, they're getting pulled into a man-hunt where they toe the line of what is acceptable deterrence to sec trying to put them in the slammer.

Many players say, "So what. Escalation is my counter to shitters ruining my round." I say it's literally just a bomb disguised as a shield. It further extravagates said issues and propels them into an alternative version of Antag versus Player. Except you don't have to be an antagonist to cause it.

How will grief be dealt with without escalation? We have a security team to deal with minor infringes of petty-theft and disruption of the peace. That's what they're for, isn't it? We also have an admin team, who will actively step in when they see repeating instances of assholish behavior.

And even if these two situations don't work out. Why would it be better for you to focus your entire round in a conflict which will lead to the death of one of you, and most likely many more bystanders are drawn into a said ensuing war of the round. When you could have simply just shrugged it off.

It's hard being the bigger person. But without the nuclear option that devastates everyone, with no clear winners. The passive option will at least leave your round intact.

Thus, I say remove escalation. The game will be better without it. Grief will literally go down because it won't blow up thanks to escalation. More people being able to say, "Yeah I enjoyed that round." instead of saying "What the fuck, FUCK YOU shitsec. My round gets griefed and everything went downhill from there!"

Honestly, any cons that come from this would be significantly less from leaving the current state of it in.

It's the option forward and is the ss13 equivalent of disabling our nukes. It's better for everyone. As clear as day.

Re: Remove Escalation

Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:18 pm
by Sandshark808
Shadowflame909 wrote:Maybe when Kor was headmin and headcoder

we're moving away from revival and healing being so easy though but we don't have a headmincoder to adjust the rules as fast as the code gets adjusted
This. The fiction of ubiquitous cloners and sleepers to bring the dead back from the brink is vanishing patch by patch. Eventually the rules will change to deal with whatever we have when medbay changes aren't so drastic.

Re: Remove Escalation

Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:10 pm
by Cobby
Healing is still "easy", it just requires you to stay within the doctor's office a bit more.

If our policy was ever built around the idea that "oh you can just get cloned" when that means you can be out of the round from anywhere between a few minutes to never playing said round again, it was a shit policy.

Re: Remove Escalation

Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:47 pm
by Shadowflame909
Fair. But it sure is a different era from the days of instant healing viro that's 10x faster then fleshmend and 2 tap sleeper medbay.

Re: Remove Escalation

Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:51 pm
by Cobby
Also pre-defibs meaning cloning HAD to be used, and also most likely pre-multitube cloning which is hardly used now anyways despite the pro's associated.

Regardless if you could neg 199 to 100 like with foamestry, if the idea that DYING was ok because of cloning's existence ergo we can give a lot of leeway to people who kill others, it was a BAD policy. I don't think that was ever the case though because we used to be quite strict on greytide as well as beating people up at all so not sure where this notion is coming from to begin with.

To my understanding, we're probably more lax now than we ever were in terms of how permissible it is to mess with other people. I can't tell if it's my rosetints or (yours) though.

Re: Remove Escalation

Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:36 pm
by PKPenguin321
Cobby wrote:Also pre-defibs meaning cloning HAD to be used, and also most likely pre-multitube cloning which is hardly used now anyways despite the pro's associated.
newfags cant speedclone

Re: Remove Escalation

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:27 am
by Sandshark808
Cobby wrote:To my understanding, we're probably more lax now than we ever were in terms of how permissible it is to mess with other people. I can't tell if it's my rosetints or (yours) though.
I think the complaint he has (and certainly the one I have) is that we're more lax on killing people but it's harder to bring them back, so being lax makes no sense.

Re: Remove Escalation

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:30 am
by Grazyn
Dr_bee wrote:Hard red line should be death, not permanent round removal. Everyone in the game is given an epinephrine pen for a reason. There is no reason you cannot beat someone into crit, epi-pen them, then fireman carry their ass to medbay. Beating someone to death is frankly bad roleplay as you are beating your co-worker to death.
I think people are afraid the other guy will come back for round 2, and if he wins, there's no guarantee he's gonna have the courtesy to return the favour. There's also no guarantee the admin currently online is gonna take your side and not rule it IC issue. After all, there were arguments in the past about what can be defined as "removed from the round". What if the guy just leaves your body where you died, but it's a low traffic area so nobody is gonna find you before the round ends? Should it be treated the same as spacing/gibbing?

Re: Remove Escalation

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:24 am
by Tlaltecuhtli
there should be a "end of escalation" once after beating a faggot and throw him in medica sol he wont have the right to kill and space you as soon as he gets healed, like its just better to not drag to medical or to make sure you clone him on a tier 1 cloner, steal all his stuff and maybe also get the ai to set him to arrest to just hinder him enough that you are dead to nuke ops by the time he gets a crowbar and starts man hunting

Re: Remove Escalation

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:34 pm
by Cobby
PKPenguin321 wrote:
Cobby wrote:Also pre-defibs meaning cloning HAD to be used, and also most likely pre-multitube cloning which is hardly used now anyways despite the pro's associated.
newfags cant speedclone
we don't talk about the secret monkey tech or depowering into cryo cuz no such thing as organs