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On Mindshield Implants, what they do and don't mean.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:27 pm
by Reyn
Title says the gist, but, From what i've read, at least on the wiki, there is no written ruling on mindshield implants, although there are some general consensuses that it doesn't mean quite a few things which people seem to think they mean. So... I'm going to make some points on my suggestions on, for elaboration, what mindshields DO and DON'T mean, and how people do, or don't, work with this.

Now, For some things which are agreed on, as of being pretty much FACTUALLY true, unless I'm wrong.
Being mindshielded means that you aren't an ANTAG revolutionary, and are freed from the antagonist revolutionary status, outside of headrev, and are Immune to becoming a revolutionary though their flash. (Not the flash itself though, you still need shades) When you are mindshielded as non headrev, you are no longer required to aid the revolution or to go after and kill heads of staff, and are immune to becoming a rev by the flash while the implant is still in. This does NOT work on headrevs.

Being Mindshielded from roundstart means you aren't antag at roundstart. From what I see, this is true. I might be completely wrong though.

Being mindshielded means you cannot be converted to cult while you're alive Factually true when your implant is still in.

Being mindshielded Makes you immune to hypnoflash and MIGHT clear out hypnoflash True.
Being mindshielded does not mean you are no longer cult. This is true, it just means you can't be culted AFTERWARDS.

Now, onto the other details, which don't seem to be so agreed on, or don't appear to be completely understood by everyone involved, for better or worse for the people involved, or are often outright ignored

Being mindshielded does NOT automaticly mean that sec has deputized you This has been a point of controversy in a recent ban appeal. While, yes, being mindshielded does mean you cant become cult in the future, or aren't rev. there's still other factors at play. This is not a free check to break into sec and grab sec gear.

Being mindshielded does NOT mean that a person isn't antag, unless it's a roundstart mindshield. While it does something against revs and prevents future cult conversion, mindshielding does not make someone instantly loyal, unlike borging. Therefore, Changelings, Traitors, blood brothers, and so on and so forth aren't a non threat. You are NOT to assume the person is completely not a threat just out of being mindshielded. Being mindshielded does not mean someone isnt a changeling, but it's a safe indicator if that person is sec or captain. Even then, the ling could still just put in a new one after succing said captain or sec officer.

Being mindshielded does not mean you have to validhunt, or actively aid sec or heads. Not that you can't help them, but you don't have to help them. Especially if heads of staff and security are being particularly brutal enough to, under normal circumstances, warrant a crew revolt. In that situation, especially if you have been abused by sec while not a revolutionary, you MAY still be able to fight sec and aid the revolution on your own free will.

Being mindshielded doesn't mean someone won't break laws. A greytider will still greytide even with a mindshield, outside of not doing rev stuff.

Being mindshielded does not make you above the law. Sec officers, and mindshielded people, can still be punished for major crimes and atrocities. This also applies to command. If someone breaks into armoury without legal access, mindshield or no, if they don't have a good reason to be in there, arrest or, potentially, buckshot.

Not being mindshielded does not make you innately valid to be killed by sec and mindshielded people on a rev round. Arresting and mindshielding or beating over head to see if unrevving works? The latter is debatable, but understandable.

Being mindshielded does not give you a liscense to act like shitcurity As for not being above the law, abusing suspects and such, if they aren't actually valid, is still an iffy thing.

Being mindshielded does NOT mean you cannot oppose sec or command decisions Self explanitory.

NOT being mindshielded does NOT innately mean someone isnt the person they seem to be. Dying and being cloned removes mindshields. Don't blast the HOS who just came out of cloning for not having a mindshield on a rev round.

I may have missed some other things, but, those are my... suggestions or statements. The mindshield implant is no longer the loyalty implant. Now, If you have anything to add, or discuss, or if you want to comment on if this should or shouldn't be a basis for written policy, well... that's what this is here for.

Edit: If you need elaboration, potentially due to this seeming like an incoherent rant, just say so.

Re: On Mindshield Implants, what they do and don't mean.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:37 pm
by CPTANT
Being mindshielded does NOT mean you cannot oppose sec or command decisions


Correct, but if you do that in a rev round I will toss you out an airlock.

Re: On Mindshield Implants, what they do and don't mean.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:52 pm
by Tarchonvaagh
Kinda pointless thread
Also mindshielded personnel can be obsessed so yeah, a roundstart mindshield is not always a nonantag pass

Re: On Mindshield Implants, what they do and don't mean.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:28 pm
by Cobby
The reason why the previously named "Loyalty Implants" was renamed to "Mindshield implants" was because, on the code side, we want to make it clear there are no roleplay obligations associated with the implant.

Re: On Mindshield Implants, what they do and don't mean.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:37 pm
by zxaber
Reyn wrote:Being mindshielded does NOT mean that a person isn't antag, unless it's a roundstart mindshield. While it does something against revs and prevents future cult conversion, mindshielding does not make someone instantly loyal, unlike borging. Therefore, Changelings, Traitors, blood brothers, and so on and so forth aren't a non threat. You are NOT to assume the person is completely not a threat just out of being mindshielded. Being mindshielded does not mean someone isnt a changeling, but it's a safe indicator if that person is sec or captain. Even then, the ling could still just put in a new one after succing said captain or sec officer.


This is the one I see new players fail to grasp the most. Just because the assistant that got a sec transfer from HoP is implanted doesn't mean he isn't a tot. It's seemingly a great strategy if you have two assassination targets, because fucking no one will question if you take them out in a secluded area and then say they attacked you. Especially if you drop a traitor item on their body.

Re: On Mindshield Implants, what they do and don't mean.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:27 am
by Grazyn
Reyn wrote:
Being mindshielded does not mean you have to validhunt, or actively aid sec or heads. Not that you can't help them, but you don't have to help them. Especially if heads of staff and security are being particularly brutal enough to, under normal circumstances, warrant a crew revolt. In that situation, especially if you have been abused by sec while not a revolutionary, you MAY still be able to fight sec and aid the revolution on your own free will.

I'd rather not see this as official policy because it only applies to exceptional circumstances and it's too easy to rule-lawyer. Being "abused" as non-rev is pretty common during rev rounds (does being held in the brig for 5 minutes while they wait for implants count as abuse? Etc.) and using it as an excuse to turn against sec or even actively help the revolution after being implanted is borderline griefy.

Re: On Mindshield Implants, what they do and don't mean.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:09 pm
by terranaut
While I understand that devils currently only happen through admin intervention, they ignore (roundstart) mindshield antagging, as in I've seen roundstart sec be a devil before.

Re: On Mindshield Implants, what they do and don't mean.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:58 pm
by Sandshark808
Cobby wrote:The reason why the previously named "Loyalty Implants" was renamed to "Mindshield implants" was because, on the code side, we want to make it clear there are no roleplay obligations associated with the implant.

I'm not sure all the flavor text was changed, which might be confusing some players. If I remember correctly it still says it makes you loyal to Nanotrasen.

Re: On Mindshield Implants, what they do and don't mean.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:16 pm
by Reyn
Grazyn wrote:
Reyn wrote:
Being mindshielded does not mean you have to validhunt, or actively aid sec or heads. Not that you can't help them, but you don't have to help them. Especially if heads of staff and security are being particularly brutal enough to, under normal circumstances, warrant a crew revolt. In that situation, especially if you have been abused by sec while not a revolutionary, you MAY still be able to fight sec and aid the revolution on your own free will.

I'd rather not see this as official policy because it only applies to exceptional circumstances and it's too easy to rule-lawyer. Being "abused" as non-rev is pretty common during rev rounds (does being held in the brig for 5 minutes while they wait for implants count as abuse? Etc.) and using it as an excuse to turn against sec or even actively help the revolution after being implanted is borderline griefy.


Being held in brig for implanting does not count as abuse. Dragging someone around in a chair, puting them in a crate, and dragging them around in said crate until eventually they decide to mindshield, or gunning someone down for not having a mindshield without them being rev is pretty much what you can rebell against.

But I get what you're saying.

Re: On Mindshield Implants, what they do and don't mean.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:12 pm
by ATHATH
Reyn wrote:Being mindshielded Makes you immune to hypnoflash and MIGHT clear out hypnoflash True.

Mindshields protect you from being hypnoflashed, but don't clear out any hypnotic commands that you've been given by a hypnotic flash. Think of it like mindshields vs. cult conversion.

Note that directives/objectives from the brainwashing surgery ARE cleared when you implant someone with a mindshield implant and that mindshield implants DO shield you from the directives/objectives given by the brainwashing surgery.

Re: On Mindshield Implants, what they do and don't mean.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:04 pm
by PKPenguin321
Cobby wrote:The reason why the previously named "Loyalty Implants" was renamed to "Mindshield implants" was because, on the code side, we want to make it clear there are no roleplay obligations associated with the implant.

which is honestly kinda lame because i dug roleplaying that
"God DAMMIT I ffffUCKING hhhh-LOVE Nanotrasen AAAAAAAAAAA"

Re: On Mindshield Implants, what they do and don't mean.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:52 am
by Cobby
nothing's stopping you from continuing to do that ;)

Re: On Mindshield Implants, what they do and don't mean.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:15 pm
by Shadowflame909
terranaut wrote:While I understand that devils currently only happen through admin intervention, they ignore (roundstart) mindshield antagging, as in I've seen roundstart sec be a devil before.

Even borgs can be roundstart devils lmao

Re: On Mindshield Implants, what they do and don't mean.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:04 pm
by Tarchonvaagh
Shadowflame909 wrote:
terranaut wrote:While I understand that devils currently only happen through admin intervention, they ignore (roundstart) mindshield antagging, as in I've seen roundstart sec be a devil before.

Even borgs can be roundstart devils lmao

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