/tg/Station 13

Its terrible in every sense. It blatantly ruins immersion, especially through events such as “Ghosts” and “Summon Weapons/Guns”. It encourages murderbone and gives the antagonist the tools to do so. But above all there is not enough content or conflict in order to engage the station for the whole round (usually 5 minutes). Only valid hunters and security are given something to do, whereas other crew members are usually wordlessly slaughtered without warning.

I could go on forever about its faults but fuck that. Basically just remove the gamemode and keep wizard in dynamic, albeit with a lower chance of spawning.

It's fun to chase down the wizard with the whole crew behind you while the wizard just dunks on everyone
Imo summon events was a mistake because it takes focus off of the wizard, summon guns can be okay but often goes to shit for the same reason
Wizard is fun regardless tho

This is something I agree with. While playing a wizard can be fun, its usually not so much for the crew.

Wizard should stay. Events need to go. The round needs to mulligan when the wizard dies, rather than just end. Bam, most of the problems solved.

"b-but getting boned by a wizard is no fun!" Neither is a 5 minute stealth ops round, or any other robust tator on a boner.

and apparently if you try to go stealthy admins get buttmad after 20 mins and spawn a wiz who instantly murders you
because "the round wasn't fun enough"
I support the OPs idea

Wizard is awesome.

This is a bad idea.

Wiz events was removed in dynamic ))

Naloac wrote:Wiz events was removed in dynamic ))

so what you are saying is part of wizard has been seen as so disruptive and anti fun it had to be removed from dynamic but its fine on its own

removing summon X would be a big improvement to the mode.

Summon events/guns/magic is a config settings. Take those up with your local headmin team.

here we are :^)

I haven't been playing so much to be aware of the entire interactions of the game but for what I've seen, Wizard rounds are the ones that most unite the crew against a common foe. Be it sec, non-antags, antags and even greytiders. I see people changing to mostly positive and constructive behavior, and putting their robustness to good use. I would really miss it if it was removed. I think the Wizard impacts the round in a very unique way to see them go away completely. Maybe just tweak the Wizard's abilities a bit? I think some particular mechanics of the game can be super annoying regardless of their source, specially if used by players with powertrips and murderboners, but that doesn't mean something has to be removed completely. Yesterday for example, there was a traitor chaplain using an ability called "holy grace" or something and he devoured like 15-20 people in a very short time, included me, removing some players from the round almost immediately (and it took a batallion to take them down) When I asked an admin, perplexed about what just had happened, they told me the name of the ability and that players just "don't use it so often so its not really a problem". But it's there isn't it?

tl:dr is that the Wizard is too unique and rather than having them removed completely, we should try to reach a consensus about the best and worst aspects and how they affect the round, and from that, tweak their abilities accordingly.

Wizard is one of those rounds other than nukie, where the entire station is united against one common threat, but I get the issues with wizards.

Agux909 wrote:I haven't been playing so much to be aware of the entire interactions of the wizard

Imma stop you right there

Nah but in all seriousness im not advertising for complete removal, just removal of the gamemode plus some of the more shit wizard events. You’d still see them in dynamic, just less

Disabling picking the wizard summon spells wouldnt necessarily mean you never see them ever again, since admins can trigger the event manually. Just like admin only stuff is given to traitors that tc trade, you can probably buy them if you got a good gimmick that warrants it. 5x events is stupid and needs to die.

Summon X can be really fun and chaotic, especially when you're a new player. It's only ever a problem in the rare event that it occurs over too many rounds within a short timeframe, at least to me.

I'm not for the removal of Wizard as a Game Mode. But if we could remove Event Summons from Wizard as a start and go from there that'd be awesome. Event Summon Wizards are UNBEARABLE.

I'd rather have event summons than just one dude running around throwing fireballs.

make a spell that raises the dynamic threat level or however the fuck it works and replace summon events with that
if it's a pure wizard round, switch the roundtype to DynamicWizard or some shit that has shit like slaughter demons in the threat pool but otherwise plays like regular dynamic
same for summon guns, instead of survivalists just boost the threat so there's a chance of regular tators getting the guns

the funniest wizard rounds in my experience were the ones where they didn't use summon

I only rarely play now but when I see a gun appear under my feet I just sigh irl

there is an interesting incongruity between those players complaining about wizards who muderbone and those admins who punish you for not murderboning

I mean I murderbone when I’m wiz too, its just a fucking garbage gamemode and should be removed. My main complaint is lack of player interaction/content which results in half of the server ignoring the wiz until they die, or hunting it. We have better stress relievers in the form of revs, wiz doesn’t have enough to contribute to remain as its own gamemode.

love when they die in the first twenty minutes and the round ends

SpaceManiac wrote:there is an interesting incongruity between those players complaining about wizards who muderbone and those admins who punish you for not murderboning

I love when admins do that

At the time of last gamemode poll, wizard was our 4th most popular mode. Admittedly this poll is a little long in the tooth by this point so further polling may be required in the future, but as a personal anecdote wizard has generally had an incongruity between angry forum posts about it vs general player popularity.

As to the topic at hand, the suggested change makes no sense - remove wizard but also keep it as a possibility in dynamic? That wouldn't actually solve any of the issues you note and would probably just lead to a greater incidence rate of false start wizard rounds due to the rounds being so rare that people don't know what they're doing with the role.

Wouldn't it make more sense to argue either for complete removal from rotation (as unlikely as that seems) or for headmins to lower it's weight in the config?

How does the suggestion make no sense. My primary complaint with it is that there’s not enough content to engage the crew to justify it being its own roundtype. Lowering its weight wouldn’t change anything in that respect. If we make it dynamic only, chances are a wizard isn’t the sole threat of the round - which would mean different ways for crew to interact with antagonists aside from validhunting for that round.

I would like to see wizard redone as more of an annoyance than straight up murderboning.

With super annoying spell like the the horse head, cursed clothing, summon magic, doors everywhere that kind of thing and not just magic missile + ei nath or fireball.

just make pure wizard super rare and add wizard+traitor as a replacement so rounds don't immediately end

wizard dying triggers a vote on whether to restart the round or continue it

Lazengann wrote:wizard dying triggers a vote on whether to restart the round or continue it

is there default vote

Dynamic wizard was a lot better than secret wizard, simply because it didnt end the round and might not be the main antag either. I enjoyed hunting the wizard with overpowered syringe mixes as much as the next guy, but the shift to the round not ending and there still being a possibility of antags in the round cured me of that real fast. In dynamic I enjoy rounds despite the wizard instead of throwing the rest of the round away to go end it quickly.

Wizard is a kinda heritage. Whilst I think it definitely needs to be lowered in its weight.

Wizard is a weird duality, it gives the crew something to team up against, but it also is basically murderbone with lots of stuff. However its no way near as bad as space ninja which is more overpowered and more murderey.

TLDR I'd say the simple solution would be to lower wizard chance of happening.

Suggestion: give wizards more utility and wacky chaos spells and less encouragement to take spells that are immediately deadly. Or, give them more spells that encourage them to keep people alive, like an AoE lifedrain that taps a little from everyone and heals for that amount.

Doesn't matter if you give wizards wacky and fun shit. They're encouraged by server culture to go as murderbone as possible; because as soon as the crew even catches wind of a wizard, they'll go full validhunt mode. A funny wizard is a dead wizard.

it's poll time

deedubya wrote:Doesn't matter if you give wizards wacky and fun shit. They're encouraged by server culture to go as murderbone as possible; because as soon as the crew even catches wind of a wizard, they'll go full validhunt mode. A funny wizard is a dead wizard.

This makes it sound like validhunting is the problem. Who'd have thought they'd see the day?

give wizards a spell that makes walls repulse and throw people if they bump into them like containment fields and a grease spell that just lubes the floor
make the walls make pinball bumper noises when they launch people

Screemonster wrote:give wizards a spell that makes walls repulse and throw people if they bump into them like containment fields and a grease spell that just lubes the floor
make the walls make pinball bumper noises when they launch people

Please implement a clown wizard.

it shouldnt end the round to early

AnonymousNow wrote:

deedubya wrote:Doesn't matter if you give wizards wacky and fun shit. They're encouraged by server culture to go as murderbone as possible; because as soon as the crew even catches wind of a wizard, they'll go full validhunt mode. A funny wizard is a dead wizard.

This makes it sound like validhunting is the problem. Who'd have thought they'd see the day?

If you were expecting me to disagree, think again. Validhunting is a big problem here, but good luck trying to convince the headmins to actually take action to correct the shitty habits the community has picked up over the years.