Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

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deedubya
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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby deedubya » Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:36 am #529119

Then like I said, maybe enforcing those standards needs to be something that's done more often. Just enforcing the rules and standards we already have in place more often would make a shockingly positive difference to this community.
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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby Istoprocent1 » Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:53 pm #529130

deedubya wrote:Honestly, rather than entertain the idea of removing Secret Extended, we should add in Fake Extended as well, if we don't already have it.(I don't recall seeing it) Maybe it'd teach people to stop treating extended as a fucking tider's free for all, and maybe bring higher RP standards as SOP starts getting enforced. I bet 95% of the playerbase don't even know what the fuck SOP even is.

tl;dr on fake extended: It's a green alert shift, and all SGs are available, but traitors are still rolled as though it were a secret round.


This is a mentally challenged idea. Yog forces SOP to the point, where security players get punished yet non-security can do as they please.

>be antag, random borg validhunts (which is against the rules on yog) - a ok
>be antag, random botanist beats me to death - a ok
>be solo security as a detective, spend 30+ minutes doing forensics etc, capture a guy with full 20TC in his inventory + SM steal kit, shoot him in the head - banned for 3 days, k, never again

Handling an assistant "tiding" and giving them a 1 minute sentence, which by the way is usually the same amount it takes to search them, is pointless. In essence you have wasted 1 minute + the time it took to catch that assistant, while the assistant spent all the time "tiding" and will continue to "tide", because the next time he is caught it will be the same 1 minute again. If Space Law had 3 strike system - 3rd time you are caught for whatever crime, you can be treated as an antag to the fullest extent, only then would be playing Extended or Secret Extended make sense for security. Otherwise its "getting griefed as sec" or "getting griefed as sec, but you don't know it until like 30 minutes into the game" gamemode.

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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby Cobby » Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:23 pm #529150

give them 100 points in the gulag then :smug:
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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby angelstarri » Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:42 pm #529157

space law is a suggestion
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I strongly suspected the borgs were one humaned by the Captain because of their increasingly strange behavior throughout the round after the Captain had entered their upload and seemingly changed the laws. I had asked twice if I could blow the borgs to no response (because there was no admin online apparently). They were constantly complimenting the Captain and calling her pretty and essentially threatening people who called the Captain ugly - Pepper Oni.

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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby deedubya » Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:09 am #529240

Istoprocent1 wrote:
deedubya wrote:Honestly, rather than entertain the idea of removing Secret Extended, we should add in Fake Extended as well, if we don't already have it.(I don't recall seeing it) Maybe it'd teach people to stop treating extended as a fucking tider's free for all, and maybe bring higher RP standards as SOP starts getting enforced. I bet 95% of the playerbase don't even know what the fuck SOP even is.

tl;dr on fake extended: It's a green alert shift, and all SGs are available, but traitors are still rolled as though it were a secret round.


This is a mentally challenged idea. Yog forces SOP to the point, where security players get punished yet non-security can do as they please.

>be antag, random borg validhunts (which is against the rules on yog) - a ok
>be antag, random botanist beats me to death - a ok
>be solo security as a detective, spend 30+ minutes doing forensics etc, capture a guy with full 20TC in his inventory + SM steal kit, shoot him in the head - banned for 3 days, k, never again

Handling an assistant "tiding" and giving them a 1 minute sentence, which by the way is usually the same amount it takes to search them, is pointless. In essence you have wasted 1 minute + the time it took to catch that assistant, while the assistant spent all the time "tiding" and will continue to "tide", because the next time he is caught it will be the same 1 minute again. If Space Law had 3 strike system - 3rd time you are caught for whatever crime, you can be treated as an antag to the fullest extent, only then would be playing Extended or Secret Extended make sense for security. Otherwise its "getting griefed as sec" or "getting griefed as sec, but you don't know it until like 30 minutes into the game" gamemode.

SOP =/= Space Law. Thanks for proving my point, 95 percenter.

Also, you're aware that even under Space Law, you're allowed to escalate sentences for repeat offenders, correct? If you have to keep arresting the same tiding shitter repeatedly, you're well within your right to escalate to capital punishment.

also maybe we should be punishing assisatants for tiding and validhunting as well, not just security
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IkeTG wrote:every post from deedubya is worrying behavior

Super Aggro Crag wrote:you're a poo head!!!!!

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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby CPTANT » Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:58 am #529241

The fuck is SOP.

Don't just go "I bet 95% of people don't know what SOP is" when the abbreviation isn't explained anywhere in this thread.
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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby teepeepee » Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:10 am #529245

standard operating procedure
he means acting like an irl cop

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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby deedubya » Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:54 am #529246

It's not only a wiki page, but also literally spelled out for you every time the alert level changes.

https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Standard_O ... _Procedure
Galatians 4:16 "Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?"
hey imma teegee admeme compliment me on my appearance here

flattering compliments people have given me:
Spoiler:
oranges wrote:honestly holy shit deedubs you're a dent head

wesoda25 wrote:deedub is one of the people that makes me wish i could block users on forums

IkeTG wrote:every post from deedubya is worrying behavior

Super Aggro Crag wrote:you're a poo head!!!!!

TheMythicGhost wrote:You're a moron, but that's really nothing new since you're Deedubya, and really at this point I'm just playing an instrument by speaking since your head is so goddamn empty these words are resonating as they pass through.

Lazengann wrote:What's interesting about deedubya is the guy has no reading skills or comprehension and his ADHD is so severe he can't read through a single thread but he shows up to argue anyway

annoyinggreencatgirl wrote:you really are almost superhumanly retarded dude, holy smokes.

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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby Grazyn » Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:49 pm #529252

deedubya wrote:Honestly, rather than entertain the idea of removing Secret Extended, we should add in Fake Extended as well, if we don't already have it.(I don't recall seeing it) Maybe it'd teach people to stop treating extended as a fucking tider's free for all, and maybe bring higher RP standards as SOP starts getting enforced. I bet 95% of the playerbase don't even know what the fuck SOP even is.

tl;dr on fake extended: It's a green alert shift, and all SGs are available, but traitors are still rolled as though it were a secret round.

That's a bad idea because it destroys the main reason for announced extended: to know that you can finally do the long-term project you never bothered to start on secret rounds. Considering you're still not guaranteed to be safe since some admins see announced extended as a green light to push buttons, adding fake extended on top of it would just be annoying as hell.

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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby CPTANT » Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:08 pm #529253

teepeepee wrote:standard operating procedure
he means acting like an irl cop


I am all for giving traitors a bit more leniency and not executing them at the first sign of smoking a syndi cigarette, but the way some other servers handle SOP is just idiotic.

I got jobbanned on yog ages ago because I bucklecuffed someone in the brig while a malf AI set the station on fire, shocked all the doors and I was getting shot at by rogue secborgs.

Handling an assistant "tiding" and giving them a 1 minute sentence, which by the way is usually the same amount it takes to search them, is pointless. In essence you have wasted 1 minute + the time it took to catch that assistant, while the assistant spent all the time "tiding" and will continue to "tide", because the next time he is caught it will be the same 1 minute again. If Space Law had 3 strike system - 3rd time you are caught for whatever crime, you can be treated as an antag to the fullest extent, only then would be playing Extended or Secret Extended make sense for security. Otherwise its "getting griefed as sec" or "getting griefed as sec, but you don't know it until like 30 minutes into the game" gamemode.


Dude, going 3 strikes out is fine, I do it all the time. Usually for minor shittery I just confiscate harmful/stolen items and stuff used for breaking and entering. Second strike I send them to the gulag for some moderate amount of points. Third strike I put them in perma or go bowling with their head.
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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby Istoprocent1 » Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:34 pm #529285

deedubya wrote:SOP =/= Space Law. Thanks for proving my point, 95 percenter.


Ok boomer. There is a SOP for brigging in the Space Law itself as well as the addendum in its own article.

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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby deedubya » Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:47 pm #529332

Grazyn wrote:
deedubya wrote:Honestly, rather than entertain the idea of removing Secret Extended, we should add in Fake Extended as well, if we don't already have it.(I don't recall seeing it) Maybe it'd teach people to stop treating extended as a fucking tider's free for all, and maybe bring higher RP standards as SOP starts getting enforced. I bet 95% of the playerbase don't even know what the fuck SOP even is.

tl;dr on fake extended: It's a green alert shift, and all SGs are available, but traitors are still rolled as though it were a secret round.

That's a bad idea because it destroys the main reason for announced extended: to know that you can finally do the long-term project you never bothered to start on secret rounds. Considering you're still not guaranteed to be safe since some admins see announced extended as a green light to push buttons, adding fake extended on top of it would just be annoying as hell.

That's the entire point. The possibility of shit happening to muck up your perfect plan is part of the game. Players relying on the (possibly incorrect) information given to them and acting accordingly rather than relying on the meta-info of "well there MIGHT be an antag so I won't even play properly" is how the game is supposed to be played. It seems this fact is lost on a lot of people these days.
Galatians 4:16 "Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?"
hey imma teegee admeme compliment me on my appearance here

flattering compliments people have given me:
Spoiler:
oranges wrote:honestly holy shit deedubs you're a dent head

wesoda25 wrote:deedub is one of the people that makes me wish i could block users on forums

IkeTG wrote:every post from deedubya is worrying behavior

Super Aggro Crag wrote:you're a poo head!!!!!

TheMythicGhost wrote:You're a moron, but that's really nothing new since you're Deedubya, and really at this point I'm just playing an instrument by speaking since your head is so goddamn empty these words are resonating as they pass through.

Lazengann wrote:What's interesting about deedubya is the guy has no reading skills or comprehension and his ADHD is so severe he can't read through a single thread but he shows up to argue anyway

annoyinggreencatgirl wrote:you really are almost superhumanly retarded dude, holy smokes.

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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby Istoprocent1 » Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:41 pm #529344

deedubya wrote:That's the entire point. The possibility of shit happening to muck up your perfect plan is part of the game. Players relying on the (possibly incorrect) information given to them and acting accordingly rather than relying on the meta-info of "well there MIGHT be an antag so I won't even play properly" is how the game is supposed to be played. It seems this fact is lost on a lot of people these days.


Spoiler:
Thats why DYNAMIC is the best gamemode out there. There is much less metainformation one can rely on - discover a cult? Okay, but you don't automatically know about the 2 traitors trying to do their thing and so on. Also there is no Secret Extended in Dynamic.

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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby deedubya » Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:06 pm #529534

For the record, I agree that dynamic being in the rotation is a good thing. Mostly because of that very reason. Partly because it's fun on occasion to have the wham bam fuckfest of 4 different antag types in the same round.
Galatians 4:16 "Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?"
hey imma teegee admeme compliment me on my appearance here

flattering compliments people have given me:
Spoiler:
oranges wrote:honestly holy shit deedubs you're a dent head

wesoda25 wrote:deedub is one of the people that makes me wish i could block users on forums

IkeTG wrote:every post from deedubya is worrying behavior

Super Aggro Crag wrote:you're a poo head!!!!!

TheMythicGhost wrote:You're a moron, but that's really nothing new since you're Deedubya, and really at this point I'm just playing an instrument by speaking since your head is so goddamn empty these words are resonating as they pass through.

Lazengann wrote:What's interesting about deedubya is the guy has no reading skills or comprehension and his ADHD is so severe he can't read through a single thread but he shows up to argue anyway

annoyinggreencatgirl wrote:you really are almost superhumanly retarded dude, holy smokes.

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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby angelstarri » Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:35 pm #529582

deedubya is secretly a JIDF agent that advocates for change even though he doesn't really play the game
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I strongly suspected the borgs were one humaned by the Captain because of their increasingly strange behavior throughout the round after the Captain had entered their upload and seemingly changed the laws. I had asked twice if I could blow the borgs to no response (because there was no admin online apparently). They were constantly complimenting the Captain and calling her pretty and essentially threatening people who called the Captain ugly - Pepper Oni.

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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby pugie » Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:44 pm #529584

Tarchonvaagh wrote:The problem is that sec doesn't care about the sop on normal rounds either


What sop?
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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby wesoda25 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 1:27 am #529643

off topic but this thread is dumb anyway, I find i have more fun as sec when I follow SOP

course if you have actual threats going on you don't have the liberty of caring about that shit
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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby Tarchonvaagh » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:32 am #529716

pugie wrote:
Tarchonvaagh wrote:The problem is that sec doesn't care about the sop on normal rounds either


What sop?

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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby Rustledjimm » Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:30 am #529720

This thread is a very long way of saying "I want to play on Hippie Station but on tg"
So uhh, I'm an admin. Please leave feedback! Oops took me a while to strike that through.

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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby Istoprocent1 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:13 pm #530301

Rustledjimm wrote:This thread is a very long way of saying "I want to play on Hippie Station but on tg"


This could be turned around and said that if the active elements from the game are removed somebody wants to play minecraft, but on SS13 and so on.

Think about it in reverse. What if there was a gamemode called Extended Secret - there will be an announcement that the round is going to play out as Extended, but in reality there are active threats from tots to nukeops. Now a minecraft player who is like "yes, i get 60+ minutes to do my autism project without any threats signs up to play the game", but the round ends 10 minutes in because wizard was slain or revs/heads got rekt. How many false rounds would it take for the minecraft player to get unhappy?

I am completely fine with Extended rounds if they are called out at the beginning and I know that "hey, now I can do my autism projects as well instead of focusing on being sec in a round, where nothing but tiding happens".

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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby deedubya » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:04 pm #530313

That's called fake extended and I'd love to see it get added.
Galatians 4:16 "Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?"
hey imma teegee admeme compliment me on my appearance here

flattering compliments people have given me:
Spoiler:
oranges wrote:honestly holy shit deedubs you're a dent head

wesoda25 wrote:deedub is one of the people that makes me wish i could block users on forums

IkeTG wrote:every post from deedubya is worrying behavior

Super Aggro Crag wrote:you're a poo head!!!!!

TheMythicGhost wrote:You're a moron, but that's really nothing new since you're Deedubya, and really at this point I'm just playing an instrument by speaking since your head is so goddamn empty these words are resonating as they pass through.

Lazengann wrote:What's interesting about deedubya is the guy has no reading skills or comprehension and his ADHD is so severe he can't read through a single thread but he shows up to argue anyway

annoyinggreencatgirl wrote:you really are almost superhumanly retarded dude, holy smokes.

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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby Istoprocent1 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:22 pm #530321

deedubya wrote:That's called fake extended and I'd love to see it get added.


Only thing we need is Dynamic to circumvent any metagame and a regular Extended to unwind from hi-octane action of Dynamic. The less fake gamemodes there are the better.

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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby CPTANT » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:52 pm #534115

Can we please remove this already? I know the concept is to bazinga paranoia or something, but the reality is just that half the crew have no purpose on extended.

I just played another hour of secret extended AI and it is the most boring thing ever.
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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby peoplearestrange » Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:44 am #534144

Again I still feels more like a problem of your play style than a game mode issue.
A fair few rounds have been run very successfully on Manuel as secret extended with only random events being thrown in as normal.

Maybe the solution is to take it off certain servers. Or if you really had extended that much go play on Terry where is 24/7 dynamic, you'll never see a "dull" round again. Good luck with that.
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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby CPTANT » Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:05 am #534244

peoplearestrange wrote:Again I still feels more like a problem of your play style than a game mode issue.
A fair few rounds have been run very successfully on Manuel as secret extended with only random events being thrown in as normal.

Maybe the solution is to take it off certain servers. Or if you really had extended that much go play on Terry where is 24/7 dynamic, you'll never see a "dull" round again. Good luck with that.


It is not a problem of my playstyle, it is a problem of the job design.

There isn't much the AI can do when all is well for example.
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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby Kryson » Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:33 pm #534340

peoplearestrange wrote:Again I still feels more like a problem of your play style than a game mode issue.
A fair few rounds have been run very successfully on Manuel as secret extended with only random events being thrown in as normal.

Maybe the solution is to take it off certain servers. Or if you really had extended that much go play on Terry where is 24/7 dynamic, you'll never see a "dull" round again. Good luck with that.


I played a secret extended round on Manuel and it was absolute cancer. Absolutely nothing at all happened in 90 min before i decided to disconnect. We had two patients in medbay in 90 min for minor injuries. One of the worst experiences playing the game i've had recently.

The game doesn't work without any chance of conflict. There weren't even any greytiders or workplace conflict to drive the round.

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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby Qbopper » Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:46 pm #534368

Kryson wrote:
peoplearestrange wrote:Again I still feels more like a problem of your play style than a game mode issue.
A fair few rounds have been run very successfully on Manuel as secret extended with only random events being thrown in as normal.

Maybe the solution is to take it off certain servers. Or if you really had extended that much go play on Terry where is 24/7 dynamic, you'll never see a "dull" round again. Good luck with that.


I played a secret extended round on Manuel and it was absolute cancer. Absolutely nothing at all happened in 90 min before i decided to disconnect. We had two patients in medbay in 90 min for minor injuries. One of the worst experiences playing the game i've had recently.

The game doesn't work without any chance of conflict. There weren't even any greytiders or workplace conflict to drive the round.


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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby Tarchonvaagh » Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:24 pm #551915

Changed my mind fuck sextended
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EOBGames
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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby EOBGames » Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:11 am #551943

I think the problem is less with extended itself and more with a general lack of stuff to do during downtime from the action. Nearly everything that goes on in game is driven in one way or another by antags, so it makes sense that removing them makes the game feel pretty incomplete. So how to solve this? More minor stuff, more minor situations that require player interaction- have a station that can feel fun to play on for two hours with no major conflict, and suddenly extended will be more enjoyable.
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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby Nabski » Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:29 pm #552373

Screemonster wrote:secret extended is a massive fuckin' shitter-detector though 'cause any admins observing know damn well that none of the unfolding chaos was sparked by antags stirring the pot

Secret extended always had the worst fucking tickets.

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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby saprasam » Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:24 am #554326

this just feels like somebody got really mad that they cant kill antag, some of the most enjoyable rounds for me were sekrit extended
probably doesnt work on manuel though because fucking nothing happens there anyways
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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby Istoprocent1 » Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:35 pm #554357

Tarchonvaagh wrote:Changed my mind fuck sextended


Attaboi, you have seen the truth.

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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby cybersaber101 » Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:31 am #554486

saprasam wrote:this just feels like somebody got really mad that they cant kill antag, some of the most enjoyable rounds for me were sekrit extended
probably doesnt work on manuel though because fucking nothing happens there anyways


Actually only a couple days ago there was a ton of paranoia over a fake cult on manuel, so much so that the shuttle was called.
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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby Istoprocent1 » Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:35 am #554487

cybersaber101 wrote:
saprasam wrote:this just feels like somebody got really mad that they cant kill antag, some of the most enjoyable rounds for me were sekrit extended
probably doesnt work on manuel though because fucking nothing happens there anyways


Actually only a couple days ago there was a ton of paranoia over a fake cult on manuel, so much so that the shuttle was called.


Make Secret Extended 24/7 on Manuel then and leave other servers alone?

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Tarchonvaagh
 
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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby Tarchonvaagh » Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:55 am #554546

please dont
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Coconutwarrior97
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Re: Straight up remove Secret Extended gamemode

Postby Coconutwarrior97 » Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:51 pm #557693

We have no interest in disabling secret extended.

Headmin votes:
Coconutwarrior97: Do not disable.
Phuzzylodgik: Do not disable.
TWATICUS: Do not disable.

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