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Revert Manuel's game mode chances

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:35 pm
by Dezupher
Manuel has been operating for quite some time now with reduced game mode chances for a majority of the game modes. I've been adminning on the server a fair amount recently and I don't believe this is beneficial to the server anymore.

There has been some expression from players on Manuel that the game modes that have had their chances reduced should come back, it's been a fair amount of time since we've had these game mode chances reduced. Seeing a Cult or Ops round is very rare and when they do occur, it usually breaks up the monotony of constant 2+ hour long traitor / secret extended rounds and provides players an opportunity to let loose and go wild somewhat. There is also push back from players who loathe these game modes, mostly for reasons that existed before Manuel was a thing. Reasons like, these game modes make are either unbalanced, too fast, or basically TDM with no RP involved at all.

I've been around Manuel since it's creation, for quite some time as a player, and recently as an admin. People have been making the same complaints about these game modes on Manuel as they did in the past on Sybil. Most of the complaints have to be handled from a coding perspective, things like they're too fast paced, or that a single robust player can win the round for one team all by themselves and whining they're not going to get to do regular station work that takes some time, like engineering or xenobiology. But these have been perceived issues for quite some time already.

The only complaint that should be considered when it comes to these game modes places on Manuel is the idea that these modes have no RP or don't fit the server. I wholeheartedly disagree when people say there's no role play involved when the station has to rally together against a larger cataclysmic threat that these game modes provide to the station. Running for your life when you see a someone in a red hardsuit blasting a huge gun, or taking shelter in the brig when there's reports of a cult is role playing. Choosing to try and run, or to fight and potentially die when you see someone running at you with a glowing halo over their head is role playing. These game modes are fast paced and they rarely last longer than an hour, but that doesn't mean there's no role playing happening.

If the server and TG code base are going to be based around MRP, then these game modes need to ACTUALLY be played on the MRP server. More often than once every blue moon, so that players can give more consistent feedback and adjustments can be made to the game modes so they fit the server better. Or so the playerbase can learn to actually role play during these game modes.

Here's the game mode chances for Manuel and Sybil as of 3/31/2020 with a round start population large enough for all round types.

Spoiler:
Sybil

traitorbro 7.7%
traitorchan 7.7%
traitor 23.1%
nuclear 7.7%
cult 7.7%
dynamic 7.7%
extended 1.9%
secret_extended 3.8%
families 9.6%
revolution 11.5%
wizard 11.5%

Manuel

traitorbro 11.1%
traitorchan 11.1%
traitor 33.3%
nuclear 5.6%
cult 2.8%
dynamic 8.3%
extended 2.8%
secret_extended 8.3%
families 8.3%
revolution 2.8%
wizard 5.6%


The server had these game modes chances reduced, around the same time when the pop cap was lowered to 50, when the server was fresh and the administration team was still figuring things out. We've made alot of progress in the time since then and while things are not perfect yet, I think it would be best for the server if the game mode chances were reverted or there is a compromise where they're brought back up slightly, but not to the levels in the past, but somewhere in the middle.

At the very least, reduce secret extended's weight, so it's not actually HIGHER on Manuel, please.

Re: Revert Manuel's game mode chances

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:08 pm
by annoyinggreencatgirl
Dezupher wrote:Seeing a Cult or Ops round is very rare and when they do occur, it usually breaks up the monotony of constant 2+ hour long traitor / secret extended rounds and provides players an opportunity to let loose and go wild somewhat.
A dissatisfied individual could break up that monotony by just playing on the LRP servers for a round or two, rather than the LRP suited game modes brought back into the MRP server for everyone else to "enjoy".

Dezupher wrote:The only complaint that should be considered when it comes to these game modes places on Manuel is the idea that these modes have no RP or don't fit the server. I wholeheartedly disagree when people say there's no role play involved when the station has to rally together against a larger cataclysmic threat that these game modes provide to the station. Running for your life when you see a someone in a red hardsuit blasting a huge gun, or taking shelter in the brig when there's reports of a cult is role playing. Choosing to try and run, or to fight and potentially die when you see someone running at you with a glowing halo over their head is role playing. These game modes are fast paced and they rarely last longer than an hour, but that doesn't mean there's no role playing happening.
Why would you honestly expect to see any more or better quality roleplaying during these game modes on MRP than on LRP, especially if RP rules 4 and 6 go out the window? Cult and rev and ops and wiz still do happen on Manuel right now, even if rarely, and every time I've seen them they're still usually as stupid and boring a shitshow as they are on LRP. I don't see how them being in rotation more often will improve this, or do anything other than surf MRP in general ever closer to just being LRP, which has felt like the trajectory Manuel has been on since inception.

Dezupher wrote:If the server and TG code base are going to be based around MRP, then these game modes need to ACTUALLY be played on the MRP server. More often than once every blue moon, so that players can give more consistent feedback and adjustments can be made to the game modes so they fit the server better. Or so the playerbase can learn to actually role play during these game modes.
How would you, through either policy or code or both, change revs or cult or ops or wiz to somehow accommodate both LRP and MRP? If you did anything to make them less TDM-free-for-all, the LRP portion of the community would be very unhappy and scream bloody murder, and it doesn't make much sense to me to slap them back into rotation on Manuel when the admins there seem to be having issues enforcing the basic roleplay rules as written, consistently, in plain old solo antag rounds and greenshifts.

If the majority of MRP is complaining about rounds lasting too long, being too boring, etc then how about keeping the shitty TDM game modes on the backburner where they belong, and making and pushing up in chance an MRP-suited config for dynamic, adding more varied and random and midround assortments of traitors, blood bros, lings, ninja, ayys, stuff like that?

Dezupher wrote:At the very least, reduce secret extended's weight, so it's not actually HIGHER on Manuel, please.
I agree with this.

Re: Revert Manuel's game mode chances

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:36 pm
by Dezupher
A dissatisfied individual could break up that monotony by just playing on the LRP servers for a round or two, rather than the LRP suited game modes brought back into the MRP server for everyone else to "enjoy".


Many players exclusively play on Manuel to avoid the LRP servers because of a dislike of the others player base and people who play only on Bagil and Terry do the same. I know multiple players and admins who want to play on Manuel, and enjoy the playerbase of Manuel more than the other servers, but still play on Bagil and Terry because Manuel's rounds are currently an endless repetition of 2+ hour long traitors / secret extended. Believe it or not, but people actually enjoy these game modes on Manuel, but don't want to deal with the sever culture that the LRP servers have.

Why would you honestly expect to see any more or better quality roleplaying during these game modes on MRP than on LRP


You can talk about a lack of "quality roleplaying" the moment the server becomes a white-listed server, and the moment we start bwoinking people like you would expect on a HRP server for not pretending it's real life. Not everyone can be a shining example of "quality roleplay" but that doesn't mean they're not allowed to play on Manuel. And the players who won't roleplay and constantly perform actions that don't belong on the server eventually get dealt with by the administration team.

All that being said, while these game modes do play out similarly between the servers as far as mechanics go, you can already see more roleplaying during these modes on Manuel than you do the LRP servers. Just because an antagonist goes loud, or has to kill alot of people naturally, doesn't mean there's no roleplay happening. Roleplay exists outside of friendly antagonists and passive antagonists who complete their two steal objectives and then turn the round into secret extended virtually.

If the majority of MRP is complaining about rounds lasting too long, being too boring, etc then how about keeping the shitty TDM game modes on the backburner where they belong, and making and pushing up in chance an MRP-suited config for dynamic, adding more varied and random and midround assortments of traitors, blood bros, lings, ninja, ayys, stuff like that?


The game modes that had their chances reduced add a huge amount of variety to the game, both in terms of gameplay and experiences. I'd rather these become more common, rather than adding MORE of the same antagonists people see all the time already. Many of my favorite experiences with the game have been with game modes like Ops and Cult, I would hate for the server I love to push these game modes that have existed on TG for so long away.

The pop cap was lowered and these game mode chances were reduced as a reactionary brake for the administration team to figure things out. The dust has settled somewhat and I think it's time to ease Manuel's player base back into it and for people to tackle and figure out what do with any issues that may come of it.

Re: Revert Manuel's game mode chances

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:46 pm
by Shaps-cloud
I agree 100% with dezu. I've always loved SS13 as a roleplaying experience, and I was really excited when Manuel launched and spent a ton of time adminning and playing on there, as well as spending a bunch of time updating my (now mostly defunct) lore project to help foster it. Unfortunately, I feel like the playerbase is so focused on "not being bagil" (seriously it amazes me that people say Manuel is somehow "slipping" from MRP to LRP when people were using "go back to bagil" as an insult literally the first day) that they don't actually bring anything to the table to replace what they shun.

The truth is honestly I just think Manuel is boring. I'm very open to new things and new experiences, and I've cut my teeth on plenty of slow, late night shifts in the bar just chatting with people, but Manuel's 2+ hour rounds with nothing happening and people demanding recalls 3 hours in so they can finish their single player SM project misses what makes SS13 RP fun for me so much it's painful. Thinking back to all the times I suddenly got exploded by a bomb in medbay with no warning, or I turned a corner into a juggernaut in maintenance and got pulped, or only got warning about the Tesla being loose three seconds before getting fried by it, or where I overestimated my chances of survival in ducking through a plasmafire, or any of the other millions of bullshit ways I've died in SS13, a lot of them felt frustrating and unfun at the time. But it's genuinely a good thing that the game is frustrating and unfun sometimes, because being powerless and legitimately vulnerable to other people's whims is often frustrating and unfun, yet it's also what gives your character depth and makes them feel more like a person than a 1D ball of quirks.

SS13 is a nonsensical metal deathtrap and there's no real excuse for your character to not be at least a little genre savvy to that. It's okay to distrust other people and take precautions for your own safety sometimes, and it's okay to get stabbed in the back or shot in the face because you didn't close a door behind you and a wandering gunman saw you were an easy target. If you're a good roleplayer, you can balance being prepared for an emergency without carrying 5 guns in your backpack at all times because that's what safety drills are for.

In short, make Manuel more dangerous and let players start taking more responsibility for their own safety like they *gasp* work for a shady megacorp in a shady corner of space with shady people

Re: Revert Manuel's game mode chances

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:16 pm
by annoyinggreencatgirl
Dezupher wrote:
A dissatisfied individual could break up that monotony by just playing on the LRP servers for a round or two, rather than the LRP suited game modes brought back into the MRP server for everyone else to "enjoy".


Many players exclusively play on Manuel to avoid the LRP servers because of a dislike of the others player base and people who play only on Bagil and Terry do the same. I know multiple players and admins who want to play on Manuel, and enjoy the playerbase of Manuel more than the other servers, but still play on Bagil and Terry because Manuel's rounds are currently an endless repetition of 2+ hour long traitors / secret extended. Believe it or not, but people actually enjoy these game modes on Manuel, but don't want to deal with the sever culture that the LRP servers have.
Maybe that's why team conversion antags and wiz/ops don't fit so well on Manuel? See below...

Dezupher wrote:
Why would you honestly expect to see any more or better quality roleplaying during these game modes on MRP than on LRP


You can talk about a lack of "quality roleplaying" the moment the server becomes a white-listed server, and the moment we start bwoinking people like you would expect on a HRP server for not pretending it's real life. Not everyone can be a shining example of "quality roleplay" but that doesn't mean they're not allowed to play on Manuel. And the players who won't roleplay and constantly perform actions that don't belong on the server eventually get dealt with by the administration team.

All that being said, while these game modes do play out similarly between the servers as far as mechanics go, you can already see more roleplaying during these modes on Manuel than you do the LRP servers. Just because an antagonist goes loud, or has to kill alot of people naturally, doesn't mean there's no roleplay happening. Roleplay exists outside of friendly antagonists and passive antagonists who complete their two steal objectives and then turn the round into secret extended virtually.
I mean, I can talk about it now, because RP rule 8 is not the be all end all of "quality roleplaying". A huge and unaddressed issue here is how one can even begin to differentiate between what constitutes powergaming or a rule 4 violation when the murderbone pass and rule 6 exemption is being dolled out to various antags. The crew's roleplay enforced sense of fear vanishes when blobs or ops are onboard and anything goes, under the assumption that they're "massive threats" there just to kill people anyway, so why shouldn't it for say wizard who are now allowed to murderbone? Why shouldn't it for revs or cultists (who are conditionally allowed to bone), especially if they've already shed blood or converted anyone?
Assistants beating a murderboning wizard to death with chairs or welderbombing him to speed along round end, getting implanted then arming up to deathmatch with conversion antags sure is some great "variety". ZZzzZZZzzz

Dezupher wrote:
If the majority of MRP is complaining about rounds lasting too long, being too boring, etc then how about keeping the shitty TDM game modes on the backburner where they belong, and making and pushing up in chance an MRP-suited config for dynamic, adding more varied and random and midround assortments of traitors, blood bros, lings, ninja, ayys, stuff like that?


The game modes that had their chances reduced add a huge amount of variety to the game, both in terms of gameplay and experiences. I'd rather these become more common, rather than adding MORE of the same antagonists people see all the time already. Many of my favorite experiences with the game have been with game modes like Ops and Cult, I would hate for the server I love to push these game modes that have existed on TG for so long away.
From my perspective they don't really add much variety, and even less good variety... And the stated issue here four sentences into your OP is dreaded 2 hour long traitor/secret extended rounds. Bringing these modes back in, regardless of added variety, is doing nothing to change that. Why intersperse those rounds with more rev/wiz/whatever rounds when you could identify and improve on what causes certain rounds to be long and uneventful?

Dezupher wrote:The pop cap was lowered and these game mode chances were reduced as a reactionary brake for the administration team to figure things out. The dust has settled somewhat and I think it's time to ease Manuel's player base back into it and for people to tackle and figure out what do with any issues that may come of it.
I saw the pop cap described this way but I don't ever recall seeing the game mode percentages justified as anything other than "they don't seem to function very well here".

Re: Revert Manuel's game mode chances

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:24 pm
by Mickyan
Shaps-cloud wrote:I agree 100% with dezu. I've always loved SS13 as a roleplaying experience, and I was really excited when Manuel launched and spent a ton of time adminning and playing on there, as well as spending a bunch of time updating my (now mostly defunct) lore project to help foster it. Unfortunately, I feel like the playerbase is so focused on "not being bagil" (seriously it amazes me that people say Manuel is somehow "slipping" from MRP to LRP when people were using "go back to bagil" as an insult literally the first day) that they don't actually bring anything to the table to replace what they shun.

The truth is honestly I just think Manuel is boring. I'm very open to new things and new experiences, and I've cut my teeth on plenty of slow, late night shifts in the bar just chatting with people, but Manuel's 2+ hour rounds with nothing happening and people demanding recalls 3 hours in so they can finish their single player SM project misses what makes SS13 RP fun for me so much it's painful. Thinking back to all the times I suddenly got exploded by a bomb in medbay with no warning, or I turned a corner into a juggernaut in maintenance and got pulped, or only got warning about the Tesla being loose three seconds before getting fried by it, or where I overestimated my chances of survival in ducking through a plasmafire, or any of the other millions of bullshit ways I've died in SS13, a lot of them felt frustrating and unfun at the time. But it's genuinely a good thing that the game is frustrating and unfun sometimes, because being powerless and legitimately vulnerable to other people's whims is often frustrating and unfun, yet it's also what gives your character depth and makes them feel more like a person than a 1D ball of quirks.

SS13 is a nonsensical metal deathtrap and there's no real excuse for your character to not be at least a little genre savvy to that. It's okay to distrust other people and take precautions for your own safety sometimes, and it's okay to get stabbed in the back or shot in the face because you didn't close a door behind you and a wandering gunman saw you were an easy target. If you're a good roleplayer, you can balance being prepared for an emergency without carrying 5 guns in your backpack at all times because that's what safety drills are for.

In short, make Manuel more dangerous and let players start taking more responsibility for their own safety like they *gasp* work for a shady megacorp in a shady corner of space with shady people

Sounds like the issue is the random events that are meant to help nudge the round towards a natural ending don't scale harshly enough with time, or you'd still have this problem whenever traitor rolls even if you changed the percentages

Re: Revert Manuel's game mode chances

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:27 pm
by cybersaber101
Secret extended too often is silly and should be lowered by a lot, and although the other kinds of rounds arn't quite as rp as often it does break some monotony and cult/revs/ops should be more frequent.

Re: Revert Manuel's game mode chances

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:39 pm
by RaveRadbury
Dezupher wrote:Many players exclusively play on Manuel to avoid the LRP servers because of a dislike of the others player base and people who play only on Bagil and Terry do the same. I know multiple players and admins who want to play on Manuel, and enjoy the playerbase of Manuel more than the other servers, but still play on Bagil and Terry because Manuel's rounds are currently an endless repetition of 2+ hour long traitors / secret extended. Believe it or not, but people actually enjoy these game modes on Manuel, but don't want to deal with the sever culture that the LRP servers have.

In my opinion this is working as intended. We should seek to configure MRP and LRP to be in stark contrast with one another, and players should move between servers as their itch for certain game play changes. I think it is problematic to configure servers in such a way that players never have need to change servers. This could exacerbate separation within the community.

Re: Revert Manuel's game mode chances

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:32 am
by Shaps-cloud
As much as I make fun of people for dumb elitist "back to bagil" comments, and I know most communities have their own issues, bagil's regulars have an unpleasant meanstreak that's really grating after (relatively) chilling on Manuel and old Sybil for so long. The prominent admins on bagil have done more to encourage and play into it than discourage it even passively, and I'm not dumb enough to think that would change any time soon. While there are exceptions, I think most SS13 players would rather settle in with the community and people of one server rather than make an active choice between "gameplay actually happens between all the slurs and edgy suicide jokes" and "at least everyone is too absorbed in their 2h autism project to tell me to kill myself".

Re: Revert Manuel's game mode chances

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:05 am
by PKPenguin321
Shaps-cloud wrote:I agree 100% with dezu. I've always loved SS13 as a roleplaying experience, and I was really excited when Manuel launched and spent a ton of time adminning and playing on there, as well as spending a bunch of time updating my (now mostly defunct) lore project to help foster it. Unfortunately, I feel like the playerbase is so focused on "not being bagil" (seriously it amazes me that people say Manuel is somehow "slipping" from MRP to LRP when people were using "go back to bagil" as an insult literally the first day) that they don't actually bring anything to the table to replace what they shun.

The truth is honestly I just think Manuel is boring. I'm very open to new things and new experiences, and I've cut my teeth on plenty of slow, late night shifts in the bar just chatting with people, but Manuel's 2+ hour rounds with nothing happening and people demanding recalls 3 hours in so they can finish their single player SM project misses what makes SS13 RP fun for me so much it's painful. Thinking back to all the times I suddenly got exploded by a bomb in medbay with no warning, or I turned a corner into a juggernaut in maintenance and got pulped, or only got warning about the Tesla being loose three seconds before getting fried by it, or where I overestimated my chances of survival in ducking through a plasmafire, or any of the other millions of bullshit ways I've died in SS13, a lot of them felt frustrating and unfun at the time. But it's genuinely a good thing that the game is frustrating and unfun sometimes, because being powerless and legitimately vulnerable to other people's whims is often frustrating and unfun, yet it's also what gives your character depth and makes them feel more like a person than a 1D ball of quirks.

SS13 is a nonsensical metal deathtrap and there's no real excuse for your character to not be at least a little genre savvy to that. It's okay to distrust other people and take precautions for your own safety sometimes, and it's okay to get stabbed in the back or shot in the face because you didn't close a door behind you and a wandering gunman saw you were an easy target. If you're a good roleplayer, you can balance being prepared for an emergency without carrying 5 guns in your backpack at all times because that's what safety drills are for.

In short, make Manuel more dangerous and let players start taking more responsibility for their own safety like they *gasp* work for a shady megacorp in a shady corner of space with shady people

wow. really good post
you put into words what i could not
that said, i do like manuel as it is, but it's teetering dangerously close on the "boring as shit" line a lot of the time

Re: Revert Manuel's game mode chances

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:51 am
by oranges
anyone who plays on basil has clinical retardation if it makes you feel any better

Re: Revert Manuel's game mode chances

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:05 pm
by feem
I'm concerned that some of the administration considers people who enjoy the slower pace of Manuel to be a problem which needs to be solved.

I also recognize that there is a desire for some middle ground between Manuel's current state and the state of Bagil.

Why not aim for a solution that manages both? Split the MRP servers between a slower, sextended + events (not hugbox, same rules, but fewer max disruption game modes) and one which has the full array of game modes, but the same MRP focus?

Forcing players to stop being able to enjoy the harmless things they already enjoy that _you_ don't enjoy isn't going to benefit anyone. At least until more balance changes come down the pipe, it is a fact that many of these modes are NOT what at least some chunk of players on Manuel want to play, and it is also a fact that there are some people playing on Bagil who'd like to have a more fulfilling roleplay experience.

I don't understand why you're establishing a binary in which one of those groups loses what they enjoy.

Re: Revert Manuel's game mode chances

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:38 pm
by feem
Also I want to note that my above response is primarily about the stated motivations for reverting the roundtype weighting. Honestly, I don't think that changing the weighting a bit would have the effect you're describing as a positive, and am not opposed to tweaking it a bit. To summarize, I'd probably be okay with a little more roundtype variation, but it should be for that end: roundtype variation, rather than stifling the group of people that prefer a slower, longer round.

Re: Revert Manuel's game mode chances

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:12 pm
by wesoda25
RaveRadbury wrote:In my opinion this is working as intended. We should seek to configure MRP and LRP to be in stark contrast with one another, and players should move between servers as their itch for certain game play changes. I think it is problematic to configure servers in such a way that players never have need to change servers. This could exacerbate separation within the community.

And what if players don’t switch? I’ve seen numerous people claim to play selectively on manuel, and way more who play only on bagil/terry. By making the servers incredibly different, you’re only hastening the “separation within the community”

Also like, what? MRP isn’t a different world than LRP, it just has higher roleplay expectations, but not too high. How does it make sense for them to be completely different servers? I agree with dez, the game itself should have the same environment, whereas the community and roleplay level provide the difference. Just as great roleplay can come out of player-antagonist interactions as player-player, and rounds where everything goes to shit provides an interesting situation.

Re: Revert Manuel's game mode chances

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:42 pm
by Farquaar
Some of the best roleplay I’ve seen on Manuel has been on cult and revolution rounds. Basic roleplay and player interaction works wonders when playing as or against a group of antagonists.

Re: Revert Manuel's game mode chances

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:10 pm
by Dezupher
In D&D, there are high combat focused campaigns with less roleplay and there are campaigns with virtually no combat but a lot of roleplay. There are also campaigns which strive to be in the middle, properly balancing the amount of combat and roleplay for the players which is what I believe Manuel should attempt to be doing. Not every round is going to be everyone's cup of tea, much like not every D&D session is going to be exactly what every member of the campaign is looking for. This change would have no impact on the rounds that do roll traitors or secret extended, they will likely still be slower paced than the other servers but less frequent.

I don't believe that Manuel in it's currently state is what it was intended to be initially. A middle ground is what I am hoping for, but that middle ground should be reached by the players creating the environment they wish to play in with their behavior and Admins properly enforcing the rules, not one caused by neutering the amount of violent antagonist and round types.

I try my best to listen to what every player wants, and I don't believe the majority of players are happy with frequency of the slow rounds. There are players who want a slow environment for their games, every game, but perhaps they should play on the low pop servers if that's what they're looking for.

[Deleted]

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:16 am
by NoxVS
PostThis post was deleted by NoxVS on Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:16 am.
Reason: Fuck I wrote out a long response but then it didn’t save god damn it

Re: Revert Manuel's game mode chances

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:17 am
by NoxVS
Dezupher wrote:In D&D, there are high combat focused campaigns with less roleplay and there are campaigns with virtually no combat but a lot of roleplay. There are also campaigns which strive to be in the middle, properly balancing the amount of combat and roleplay for the players which is what I believe Manuel should attempt to be doing. Not every round is going to be everyone's cup of tea, much like not every D&D session is going to be exactly what every member of the campaign is looking for.

I feel like DnD is a bad analogy for this, especially the way you framed it. The problem isn’t that Manuel with virtually no combat and a lot of roleplay, it’s that there’s none of either. Roleplay focused campaigns still have conflict, you still have dilemmas and problems to solve. But that’s not how Manuel is. Imagine Manuel as a campaign almost entirely composed of lawful/good characters, and breaking away from this can get you kicked out. There is no room for conflict and the few people who are allowed to be evil don’t start conflicts because they are worried of getting kicked out by an overzealous admin.

While I think this is a step in the right direction, it won’t solve the problem of the game not having any ways to naturally create conflict for people to be involved in. Instead you have fabricated conflict that no one has any fun with. Occasionally there will be something fun but for the most part it will mostly be like a shitter running around stealing stuff and punching people. I mainly play chaplain on Manuel, most of my rounds is me running around in circles waiting for something to happen. I could hold some religious stuff but 9 times out of 10 no one shows up. I could pray but 9 times out of 10 no admin responds. I have to hope other players or admins are willing to join in and take part in whatever chaplain stuff I am doing or nothing will happen for the entire round for me.

Re: Revert Manuel's game mode chances

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:22 am
by Coconutwarrior97
Increased the chances of a few game modes on Manuel:

secret_extended from 3 to 2
nuclear from 2 to 3
revolution from 1 to 3
cult from 1 to 3
wizard from 2 to 4

Headmin Votes:
Coconutwarrior97: Yes.
Phuzzylodgik: Yes.
TWATICUS: Yes.