/tg/Station 13

The boomer administration never resolved anything of this. Will the gamer administration finally bring TG to 21st century standards?

nobody has 4:3 screens anymore aside from homeless slavs squatting in derelict commie blocks and they have their own server

Don't, it gives you more view range horizontally than vertically for no reason. Imagine escaping sightlines more easily by going up instead of going left completely arbitrarily. It's really stupid
"but muh big monitor"
fuck you i also have a big monitor but the game works perfectly fine with a square display instead of a wack rectangle. a tile-based top down game does not need higher "FOV," it's not a fucking FPS where you can reasonably have wider view range than you have taller.

PKPenguin321 wrote:Don't, it gives you more view range horizontally than vertically for no reason. Imagine escaping sightlines more easily by going up instead of going left completely arbitrarily. It's really stupid
"but muh big monitor"
fuck you i also have a big monitor but the game works perfectly fine with a square display instead of a wack rectangle. a tile-based top down game does not need higher "FOV," it's not a fucking FPS where you can reasonably have wider view range than you have taller.

basically this.

i have a 16:9 monitor and i was not a huge fan. the most i can say for it is that it was tolerable.

PKPenguin321 wrote:Don't, it gives you more view range horizontally than vertically for no reason. Imagine escaping sightlines more easily by going up instead of going left completely arbitrarily. It's really stupid
"but muh big monitor"
fuck you i also have a big monitor but the game works perfectly fine with a square display instead of a wack rectangle. a tile-based top down game does not need higher "FOV," it's not a fucking FPS where you can reasonably have wider view range than you have taller.

what do you mean? this already happens





rectangle is better only problem is black blindlness screens are still a small square when wide is enabled so you can see in the additional squares

Realistically we should probably just run a poll to see what size screen most people have (in resolution i.e. 1920 x 1080) and make a decision on widescreen based on that.

Tlaltecuhtli wrote: rectangle is better only problem is black blindlness screens are still a small square when wide is enabled so you can see in the additional squares

I mean, that's a bug which is more liable to be fixed if widescreen is enabled.

As a reminder, this is what 1920x1080 with no stretching of the game viewport looks like:
I think we can agree we're a bit beyond the era when this was the median display size.

That's not an argument for widescreen, that's an argument for increasing the default icon size.

Maybe the discussion should be around increasing the view range? its currently 7 (15x15), but it could be 8 (17x17) as well as the default icon scale.

HDstation13 when

MrStonedOne wrote:That's not an argument for widescreen, that's an argument for increasing the default icon size.

Maybe the discussion should be around increasing the view range? its currently 7 (15x15), but it could be 8 (17x17) as well as the default icon scale.

not sure if its integrated to byond but is it possible to make the bar where you type at the bottom only go in the chat part of the screen? thats like 1 extra tile thats could help expand for perfect square view point

I like having more space for my chat screen.
This game is best played with everyone having the same view range.

1. Several parts of the code depend on view range being a square, it's going to cause both technical and balance issues in the current state

2. To make full use of widescreen you
have to squish your chat further to
the side - you can imagine why this is
very annoying in a game where most
visual feedback is relayed entirely
through text.
This problem does not get better
regardless of the size and ratio of
your screen.

This was discussed at length in the PR that added it, I don't know why people keep getting the impression that only someone who's still using a 4:3 CRT monitor from 1995 wouldn't want to use widescreen
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/43754

Hot take: Make the view window widescreen, but use the extra space for UI elements instead of view distance

That's it, development has moved from Dream maker to dream weaver

Mickyan wrote:1. Several parts of the code depend on view range being a square, it's going to cause both technical and balance issues in the current state

2. To make full use of widescreen you
have to squish your chat further to
the side - you can imagine why this is
very annoying in a game where most
visual feedback is relayed entirely
through text.
This problem does not get better
regardless of the size and ratio of
your screen.

This was discussed at length in the PR that added it, I don't know why people keep getting the impression that only someone who's still using a 4:3 CRT monitor from 1995 wouldn't want to use widescreen
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/43754

how can someone so based be so wrong

just make the chat widescreen and game tallscreen

We've enabled widescreen on all servers for testing, gonna keep this thread open for feedback.
Headmin Votes:
Coconutwarrior97: Yes.
Phuzzylodgik: Yes.
TWATICUS: Yes.

sounds pretty drastic, might wanna make an announcement or...something.
edit: I mean, was there a big demand for this, is there a design reason?

Coconutwarrior97 wrote:We've enabled widescreen on all servers for testing, gonna keep this thread open for feedback.
Headmin Votes:
Coconutwarrior97: Yes.
Phuzzylodgik: Yes.
Coconutwarrior97: Yes.

Damn gamer you can't just turn Twat into a puppet like that

w-wheres twaticus on that vote

For those that aren't familiar, this is what widescreen looks like.

I'm not a huge fan so far.

Mickyan wrote:1. Several parts of the code depend on view range being a square, it's going to cause both technical and balance issues in the current state

These would be classified as bugs, I added the config fully intending to support widescreen as an option

Do not like it at all, but then i am playing on a smaller resolution than most. Could definitely adjust to it if forced, but the smaller chat window feels awkward.

I was slightly more opposed to this before rune chat, but now that we have rune chat Im all for this since these days a large portion of the game takes place actually in the world view screen now and I really like it.

How do I make my window square?

The current widescreen sucks. It makes clicking harder for people who don't play the game on 40' tvs as well as increase the eyestrain. It was better the way it has been for years.

I don't like this. I play on fairly old computer with LCD monitor set to 1920x1080 and I'd still much prefer square viewport.

• Relevant perhaps to old computers only - more tiles to draw means more CPU usage and lower framerate. This is why I don't like larger viewport and would not like changes like view range being expanded in way ghost verb does from current value.
• Chat area is still pretty important to me, I also reserve space above chat for machine UIs. Wider viewport means less space there both for chat and additional windows.
• Disable widescreen and see less than other people might or suffer above? Why do this choice?
• Seeing more on horizontal axis is kinda strange. I don't want to be forced to do strategic choices like running specifically north or south to leave view range of enemy faster. Neither I'd like to do strategic choices when fortifying positions to keep main paths visible on horizontal axis. It's too odd.

You know you can use the normal viewport size right?

you are only forced to use widescreen if you feel that you will lose a powergame advantage by not using it, at which point I have no real sympathy for you or your cause.

Now that I've played with this, it's actually pretty comfy. I'm running 1920 x 1080 and it looks pretty alright. The extra real estate is kinda nice. I'm not a huge fan of having to squish my text box, but I'll get over it.

Vekter wrote:Now that I've played with this, it's actually pretty comfy. I'm running 1920 x 1080 and it looks pretty alright. The extra real estate is kinda nice. I'm not a huge fan of having to squish my text box, but I'll get over it.

Basically this. I think I'd like it less if we didn't have runechat going on. It's so much easier to follow conversations with that feature.

sincerely dislike the scrunched chat box, and i am very much opposed to the idea of some people having an objective advantage simply by choosing a different setting

imagine a traitor shooting you offscreen and he doesn't like widescreen either but he was more willing to powergame than you were. Oranges, please stop being dumb as fuck.

oranges wrote:You know you can use the normal viewport size right?

you are only forced to use widescreen if you feel that you will lose a powergame advantage by not using it, at which point I have no real sympathy for you or your cause.

"just get fucked by people who do use this feature if you don't like it" is a weird way to defend it
I'm neutral on it since I haven't had a chance to try it yet

feels really weird with guns like the kinetic crusher that previously could reach the end of your screen

teepeepee wrote:

oranges wrote:You know you can use the normal viewport size right?

you are only forced to use widescreen if you feel that you will lose a powergame advantage by not using it, at which point I have no real sympathy for you or your cause.

"just get fucked by people who do use this feature if you don't like it" is a weird way to defend it
I'm neutral on it since I haven't had a chance to try it yet

I believe the concern is overblown to the maximum, by a bunch of pearl clutching aholes

if you are slow enough to not be able to dodge a bullet coming at you from outside normal view range you deserve to die change my mind

hey look you can buy a monitor that runs widescreen for 13$!!!!!!! thats like 2 mcdonald meals, go and buy one instead of complaining your monitor is old
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... 53&_sop=15

Where's support for tallscreens? How's a man supposed to mount his screen on a 90 degree pivot to maximize his view range?

bad layout of action buttons and the hud, i think the popups when you hover over items are broken too

Tlaltecuhtli wrote:hey look you can buy a monitor that runs widescreen for 13$!!!!!!! thats like 2 mcdonald meals, go and buy one instead of complaining your monitor is old
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... 53&_sop=15

Well shit then, lets just add stun resistance for $6. Its only one mcdonalds meal. If you do not want to, then its your fault!

Does widescreen offer anything of value? Will it allow for any actual improvements to the game? The visuals are not better. Its 3 tiles on each end of the screen that we do not NEED for anything, right? If it were optional with no gameplay advantages, then i think it would be completely fine. But its not, so for the overall fairness of the game, it should not be enabled.

Alex Crimson wrote:

Tlaltecuhtli wrote:hey look you can buy a monitor that runs widescreen for 13$!!!!!!! thats like 2 mcdonald meals, go and buy one instead of complaining your monitor is old
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... 53&_sop=15

Well shit then, lets just add stun resistance for $6. Its only one mcdonalds meal. If you do not want to, then its your fault!

Does widescreen offer anything of value? Will it allow for any actual improvements to the game? The visuals are not better. Its 3 tiles on each end of the screen that we do not NEED for anything, right? If it were optional with no gameplay advantages, then i think it would be completely fine. But its not, so for the overall fairness of the game, it should not be enabled.

It's two bonus tiles per side, not three.

I'm looking for "what can you see now that you couldn't before" Meta station edition.

Chemistry, is someone working science or vis sersa?
Science hallway, is there someone on the surgery table in robotics?
Science Hallway you can see if someone used the last mixer.
4 more botany trays
Can see entire kitchen from main hallways(already an option from the bar)
Center of bridge, you can now see the plastic flaps for side entry vs not at all until someone is in.
A bit of the left hallway as the HOP from his desk, but it's a shit angle.
2 full cells from the wardens desk versus 1.5
Vision range on the SM is WEIRD now
The science and medical security posts can now see chemistry/science proper without leaving, which is big buffs. Engineering is still trash and cargo's new location is also trash BUT cargo's could see into the now not even dark warehouse so everything about that is bad anyways.

Was this a decent enough write up that I should do other stations?

AI gets more interesting things since they can sit on walls, but they already had multicam and it didn't break the game balance the way everyone pearl clutchingly said it would when it was added.

Nabski wrote:

Alex Crimson wrote:

Tlaltecuhtli wrote:hey look you can buy a monitor that runs widescreen for 13$!!!!!!! thats like 2 mcdonald meals, go and buy one instead of complaining your monitor is old
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... 53&_sop=15

Well shit then, lets just add stun resistance for $6. Its only one mcdonalds meal. If you do not want to, then its your fault!

Does widescreen offer anything of value? Will it allow for any actual improvements to the game? The visuals are not better. Its 3 tiles on each end of the screen that we do not NEED for anything, right? If it were optional with no gameplay advantages, then i think it would be completely fine. But its not, so for the overall fairness of the game, it should not be enabled.

It's two bonus tiles per side, not three.

I'm looking for "what can you see now that you couldn't before" Meta station edition.

Chemistry, is someone working science or vis sersa?
Science hallway, is there someone on the surgery table in robotics?
Science Hallway you can see if someone used the last mixer.
4 more botany trays
Can see entire kitchen from main hallways(already an option from the bar)
Center of bridge, you can now see the plastic flaps for side entry vs not at all until someone is in.
A bit of the left hallway as the HOP from his desk, but it's a shit angle.
2 full cells from the wardens desk versus 1.5
Vision range on the SM is WEIRD now
The science and medical security posts can now see chemistry/science proper without leaving, which is big buffs. Engineering is still trash and cargo's new location is also trash BUT cargo's could see into the now not even dark warehouse so everything about that is bad anyways.

Was this a decent enough write up that I should do other stations?

AI gets more interesting things since they can sit on walls, but they already had multicam and it didn't break the game balance the way everyone pearl clutchingly said it would when it was added.

Which would all be great, if not for the fact that some people do not like widescreen or are unable to use it. That alone is reason not to enable it. I doubt anyone will miss these things if widescreen were disabled again. Once again, these are not things you NEED to have to the point that the in-game advantage is justified.

Alex Crimson wrote:

Nabski wrote:

Alex Crimson wrote:

Tlaltecuhtli wrote:hey look you can buy a monitor that runs widescreen for 13$!!!!!!! thats like 2 mcdonald meals, go and buy one instead of complaining your monitor is old
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... 53&_sop=15

Well shit then, lets just add stun resistance for $6. Its only one mcdonalds meal. If you do not want to, then its your fault!

Does widescreen offer anything of value? Will it allow for any actual improvements to the game? The visuals are not better. Its 3 tiles on each end of the screen that we do not NEED for anything, right? If it were optional with no gameplay advantages, then i think it would be completely fine. But its not, so for the overall fairness of the game, it should not be enabled.

It's two bonus tiles per side, not three.

I'm looking for "what can you see now that you couldn't before" Meta station edition.

Chemistry, is someone working science or vis sersa?
Science hallway, is there someone on the surgery table in robotics?
Science Hallway you can see if someone used the last mixer.
4 more botany trays
Can see entire kitchen from main hallways(already an option from the bar)
Center of bridge, you can now see the plastic flaps for side entry vs not at all until someone is in.
A bit of the left hallway as the HOP from his desk, but it's a shit angle.
2 full cells from the wardens desk versus 1.5
Vision range on the SM is WEIRD now
The science and medical security posts can now see chemistry/science proper without leaving, which is big buffs. Engineering is still trash and cargo's new location is also trash BUT cargo's could see into the now not even dark warehouse so everything about that is bad anyways.

Was this a decent enough write up that I should do other stations?

AI gets more interesting things since they can sit on walls, but they already had multicam and it didn't break the game balance the way everyone pearl clutchingly said it would when it was added.

Which would all be great, if not for the fact that some people do not like widescreen or are unable to use it. That alone is reason not to enable it. I doubt anyone will miss these things if widescreen were disabled again. Once again, these are not things you NEED to have to the point that the in-game advantage is justified.

Just because you are stuck in 1998 doesn't mean we should all be forced to.

Nabski wrote:

Alex Crimson wrote:

Nabski wrote:

Alex Crimson wrote:

Tlaltecuhtli wrote:hey look you can buy a monitor that runs widescreen for 13$!!!!!!! thats like 2 mcdonald meals, go and buy one instead of complaining your monitor is old
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... 53&_sop=15

Well shit then, lets just add stun resistance for $6. Its only one mcdonalds meal. If you do not want to, then its your fault!

Does widescreen offer anything of value? Will it allow for any actual improvements to the game? The visuals are not better. Its 3 tiles on each end of the screen that we do not NEED for anything, right? If it were optional with no gameplay advantages, then i think it would be completely fine. But its not, so for the overall fairness of the game, it should not be enabled.

It's two bonus tiles per side, not three.

I'm looking for "what can you see now that you couldn't before" Meta station edition.

Chemistry, is someone working science or vis sersa?
Science hallway, is there someone on the surgery table in robotics?
Science Hallway you can see if someone used the last mixer.
4 more botany trays
Can see entire kitchen from main hallways(already an option from the bar)
Center of bridge, you can now see the plastic flaps for side entry vs not at all until someone is in.
A bit of the left hallway as the HOP from his desk, but it's a shit angle.
2 full cells from the wardens desk versus 1.5
Vision range on the SM is WEIRD now
The science and medical security posts can now see chemistry/science proper without leaving, which is big buffs. Engineering is still trash and cargo's new location is also trash BUT cargo's could see into the now not even dark warehouse so everything about that is bad anyways.

Was this a decent enough write up that I should do other stations?

AI gets more interesting things since they can sit on walls, but they already had multicam and it didn't break the game balance the way everyone pearl clutchingly said it would when it was added.

Which would all be great, if not for the fact that some people do not like widescreen or are unable to use it. That alone is reason not to enable it. I doubt anyone will miss these things if widescreen were disabled again. Once again, these are not things you NEED to have to the point that the in-game advantage is justified.

Just because you are stuck in 1998 doesn't mean we should all be forced to.

There are people in this thread saying they do not like it even with modern resolutions. Find a better excuse. Its an ancient 2D tile-based game. There is no reason to make changes like this when it adds nothing of value to the game. If you could provide actual reasons why widescreen is important to SS13 moving forward, id have no issues with it. Right now, all you have is seeing more of the map, which is not needed, and the fact widescreen is not forced means that some will be playing with an in-game advantage.

So again, how is widescreen improving the game, and why is the current 15x15 in need of changing?

The pay2win argument doesn’t hold much sway, in my view. Widescreen monitors are cheap, and nearly ubiquitous. This isn’t like draw distance in a graphically intensive MMO- it’s just a cheap monitor that became the norm ten years ago.

Rather, I’m a bit concerned about the strategic implications. It’s already been said, but the idea that there is an arbitrary difference in view range between north/south and east/west doesn’t sit right with me. That’s not to say we shouldn’t explore new configs and resolution options, but I think we should look at different options.

looks bad, squished all the comms chatter on my brand new screen, makes my admin tabs go to too many rows, turned it off.

After getting actually used to this I actually think it's pretty good, please keep this on.

Don't worry, in two weeks time we will run a trial where we reverse it, and make it lower the vertical viewing field to achieve a widescreen effect, so we can see how that method does.

MrStonedOne wrote:Don't worry, in two weeks time we will run a trial where we reverse it, and make it lower the vertical viewing field to achieve a widescreen effect, so we can see how that method does.

would actually be a good april fools change