Revert "Revert Manuel's game mode chances"

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Coconutwarrior97
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Re: Revert "Revert Manuel's game mode chances"

Postby Coconutwarrior97 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:34 am #567415

Unfortunately we are not machines who can churn out responses to everything. Sometimes it takes time, we will address this.



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Re: Revert "Revert Manuel's game mode chances"

Postby NikoTheGuyDude » Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:33 am #568214

With all due respect, manuel's community has been getting more and more aggravated at wizards, as they usually embody everything people play on manuel to avoid (one man deathsquads murderboning with reckless abandon) and judging from the fact that this post is MONTHS old, the community is probably very fed up. And they are. I understand that stuff takes time, but in the MONTHS that this post has been up, I feel it's reasonable to expect headmins to be able to give a response. Maybe there's something I'm not seeing, and if there is, please explain, but I don't understand how an issue this major for manuel can be overlooked for MONTHS. I don't want this to be an insult, but I'm really fed up with wizards and co. at this point.

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Re: Revert "Revert Manuel's game mode chances"

Postby Cobby » Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:03 am #568896

wizard: 12%
nukeops: 8%
total: 20%

Assuming rounds last at least an hour, you're getting 4 hours aka 17% before youre getting smacked with these events. These rounds dont even last an hour.

I mean yeah not getting a response kinda sucks but it certainly isnt worth outrage or "i think there might be outrage so im going to post on behalf of these potentially outraged individuals".
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Re: Revert "Revert Manuel's game mode chances"

Postby carshalash » Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:48 am #570339

Image

Can we cuck cult chance too please? k thanks.

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Re: Revert "Revert Manuel's game mode chances"

Postby Sheodir » Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:19 am #570857

Was having a pretty grand time roleplaying in a cult round, as a cultist mime had (unknowingly to me at the time) infiltrated Sec as an 'assistant detective' by pretending to put on an implant (I did not wear SecHuds, as the Det). It was going somewhere, then it went nowhere, because the moment the AI saw it was a cult round it instacalled the shuttle and started validhunting rampantly in response. The cultists, who had converted a couple people at that point, started rushing massively, my mime partner ran off to help, and it turned into TDM. I was apparently the sacrifice target and the Mime was getting close to me, which could've been interesting.

The lesson here is that these gamemodes can absolutely work in MRP, and that certain agents actively groaning and rushing them along only make the situation worse.

(Wizard, however, could really use a reworking of his toolset, as much of it really is dedicated to just fast run and gun combat with hit and run tactics. Fix Wiz, pls.)
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Re: Revert "Revert Manuel's game mode chances"

Postby cybersaber101 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:29 am #571184

No amount of your hope for good faith crap or current policy saves cult in its current state, blood cult does not belong on Manuel period.

https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/143273 <--- a particularly painful round of cult.
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Re: Revert "Revert Manuel's game mode chances"

Postby Sylphet » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:54 pm #571227

People are absolutely right that some modes aren't working right now - the problem here is that these modes are a prisoner's dilemma. Cult for example - To work on MRP, both the crew and the cult need to RP. If the cult starts peacefully approaching people, there's a very real chance that the person will screech CULT DORMS 4 and the entire station starts validhunting, not wanting the shift to turn into one of those cult rounds. If the crew ignore the metaknowledge that the cult are converting people, willingly or not, it takes one cultist to run around, start unga bunga flash and force converting people, and then it turns into one of those cult rounds. There's really nothing wrong with these modes mechanically, it's that people refuse to RP them.
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Re: Revert "Revert Manuel's game mode chances"

Postby Timberpoes » Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:55 am #571236

Sylphet wrote:People are absolutely right that some modes aren't working right now - the problem here is that these modes are a prisoner's dilemma. Cult for example - To work on MRP, both the crew and the cult need to RP. If the cult starts peacefully approaching people, there's a very real chance that the person will screech CULT DORMS 4 and the entire station starts validhunting, not wanting the shift to turn into one of those cult rounds. If the crew ignore the metaknowledge that the cult are converting people, willingly or not, it takes one cultist to run around, start unga bunga flash and force converting people, and then it turns into one of those cult rounds. There's really nothing wrong with these modes mechanically, it's that people refuse to RP them.


Problem is all these game modes are built ontop of LRP rules. Binary concepts like valid/not valid are hugely useful on LRP, but detrimental to MRP - If they're an antag, they're valid. You have to ask antags to potentially sacrifice their antag rounds to do anything interesting on MRP. Families is the same. Families are antags. Space cops are antags. Everyone's an antag. The game mode's policies are a set of LRP rules.

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=12363#p322876 - Unless we're willing to overrule this specifically for Manuel, turns out you're risking a ban every time you accept being turned into a team antag in modes like Cult or Revs.

Cult COULD work really well on Manuel, there's a huge potential for MRP. But the policies surrounding cult are LRP, regardless of whatever rules Manuel has.

Revs COULD work really well on Manuel for the same reason, but again the policies surrounding revs are LRP.

Antags are valid and have limited protections when it comes to running gimmicks that necessitate them exposing themselves as antags.

Players are prohibited from seeking conversion in team-based game modes (barring families, which is a shit show because of the LRP policies that make up the game mode)

Too many game types permit murderboning. Team antag game modes almost universally permit validhunting because of the threat posed to the station.
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Re: Revert "Revert Manuel's game mode chances"

Postby Jack7D1 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:40 pm #571247

I agree, families,cult and usually Revolutionaries are just really poor fits for Manuel. I'll admit that revolution can be really good at times though.
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Re: Revert "Revert Manuel's game mode chances"

Postby oranges » Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:58 am #571388

Coconutwarrior97 wrote:Unfortunately we are not machines who can churn out responses to everything. Sometimes it takes time, we will address this.

Your problem here is you're trying to let players guide the development of this server, when really what is called for is to set an executive direction and then let people manage within that space.

Otherwise you're going to see this thread, or a variation of this thread a million times over.

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Re: Revert "Revert Manuel's game mode chances"

Postby carshalash » Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:41 am #571532

oranges wrote:
Coconutwarrior97 wrote:Unfortunately we are not machines who can churn out responses to everything. Sometimes it takes time, we will address this.

Your problem here is you're trying to let players guide the development of this server, when really what is called for is to set an executive direction and then let people manage within that space.

Otherwise you're going to see this thread, or a variation of this thread a million times over.


Tripling conversion round game modes just because of a single request for it is dumb, its been 3 months of dealing with it now. Players AND admins both agree that a lot of these changes just don't work on manuel.

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Re: Revert "Revert Manuel's game mode chances"

Postby oranges » Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:07 pm #571613

this thread, and it's predecessors are disinclined to agree with your comment.

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Re: Revert "Revert Manuel's game mode chances"

Postby NoxVS » Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:15 am #571648

3 months gang

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Re: Revert "Revert Manuel's game mode chances"

Postby Jack7D1 » Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:49 am #571655

I dunno man I just wanna see less families, cult and revs on Manuel. That's it :/
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Re: Revert "Revert Manuel's game mode chances"

Postby Coconutwarrior97 » Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:42 am #572516

The following changes have been made,
nuclear from 3 to 2
revolution from 3 to 2
cult from 3 to 2
wizard from 4 to 2

Headmin Votes:
Coconutwarrior97: Yes.
Phuzzylodgik: Yes.
TWATICUS: Yes.

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