Should tide be banned?

[Reeeee]

Should acting tidey be punishable by rules, is the other way to put it.
Should rule elebenty be added as a hard coded rule you can get banned over?
Or, should people be allowed to tide and riot at all?

Proponent evidence of emergent gameplay because of tide;

Evidence against;
This place left blank due to admins deleting the tide for forever.

[wet socks]

if we remove tide we remove s o u l

just stop doing so god damn much

[Alex Crimson]

Never going to happen. As much as it should be stopped, its the same as asking people to stop using certain words. You will face endless resistance and complaining from shitters using every excuse they can think of. Then nothing will happen because nobody wants to be the bad guy that made the final decision to punish tiders.

Just go play on a high RP server.

[teepeepee]

when I was more active this kind of tiding happened all the time on bagil and I loved it
I've participated in it both as an assistand and a sec officer
It all starts with an assistant with metafriends getting fucked with, justified or not, by security
I will write down one of these events I remember happening as an example of how fun it is for everyone, there were admins online during all of it and no one got banned for any of this that I know of
I might be misremembering some facts or even mixing it up with other rounds that devolved into this kind of chaos, just putting that out there in case someone bothers find the round ID and tells me I'm lying

Spoiler:

It's five minutes since roundstart, on deltastation, I stun and cuff an assistant that failed to shove me into a wall beneath the courtroom, but I take too long because I steal his insuls and call him a faggot before heading to the brig, their metafriends see me and swarm me to stop the arrest
I get stunned, call out ny position over sec comms, and help arrives just as they manage to strip my belt and bag, but not my jumpsuit, the detective manages to arrest one of them
from this point on, common radio is filled with calls of "shitsec" and telling me to kill myself
I gear up again and set all the names I see on my chat log to arrest through the console
beepsky calls one out over radio and an officer that went to them gets stunned and fullstripped by the swarm of assistants and other assistant-like jobs (cargo, lawyer, botanists, curator)
I arrest a newbie traitor that opened a door he shouldn't have access to and had an ebow in his bag, and feeling bad about him getting found out so early, I just take his ebow and give him 5 minutes, through him I get informed that the swarm already has all access
the swarm wanders around the station breaking windows, giving off that "this round's gone to shit so I'll drop my projects and join in" vibe
we manage to arrest like two more people that either tried to get inside the brig, have restricted gear or assaulted officers and they screech that they're being taken to perma and that I have an ebow
the swarm storms the brig and the 5 members of security (the true challenge role when playing bagil) are overwhelmed since they had flashbang protection and there's like 15 of them
what surprised me was that they actually only killed me and the HoS, but not the warden, detective and one other officer (they just cuff and fullstrip)
the round suddenly ends when the latejoin HoP dies upon arriving to the brig and we find out there was a revolution
there were only 4 revs, 3 of which were headrevs, and not all of them were even taking part in the riot, and three traitors, who didn't really have much protagonism in the round and only one of them was even in the swarm of grey locusts

it was, to this day, one of the most fun rounds I've played and I even salted a bit in deadchat, without ahelping cause that's gay, and what I think was an admin laughed along
losing these kinds of experiences because an admin from the hugbox server comes online and is overwhelmed by people having fun would be really sad

[Alex Crimson]

when I was more active this kind of tiding happened all the time on bagil and I loved it
I've participated in it both as an assistand and a sec officer
It all starts with an assistant with metafriends getting fucked with, justified or not, by security
I will write down one of these events I remember happening as an example of how fun it is for everyone, there were admins online during all of it and no one got banned for any of this that I know of
I might be misremembering some facts or even mixing it up with other rounds that devolved into this kind of chaos, just putting that out there in case someone bothers find the round ID and tells me I'm lying

Spoiler:

It's five minutes since roundstart, on deltastation, I stun and cuff an assistant that failed to shove me into a wall beneath the courtroom, but I take too long because I steal his insuls and call him a faggot before heading to the brig, their metafriends see me and swarm me to stop the arrest
I get stunned, call out ny position over sec comms, and help arrives just as they manage to strip my belt and bag, but not my jumpsuit, the detective manages to arrest one of them
from this point on, common radio is filled with calls of "shitsec" and telling me to kill myself
I gear up again and set all the names I see on my chat log to arrest through the console
beepsky calls one out over radio and an officer that went to them gets stunned and fullstripped by the swarm of assistants and other assistant-like jobs (cargo, lawyer, botanists, curator)
I arrest a newbie traitor that opened a door he shouldn't have access to and had an ebow in his bag, and feeling bad about him getting found out so early, I just take his ebow and give him 5 minutes, through him I get informed that the swarm already has all access
the swarm wanders around the station breaking windows, giving off that "this round's gone to shit so I'll drop my projects and join in" vibe
we manage to arrest like two more people that either tried to get inside the brig, have restricted gear or assaulted officers and they screech that they're being taken to perma and that I have an ebow
the swarm storms the brig and the 5 members of security (the true challenge role when playing bagil) are overwhelmed since they had flashbang protection and there's like 15 of them
what surprised me was that they actually only killed me and the HoS, but not the warden, detective and one other officer (they just cuff and fullstrip)
the round suddenly ends when the latejoin HoP dies upon arriving to the brig and we find out there was a revolution
there were only 4 revs, 3 of which were headrevs, and not all of them were even taking part in the riot, and three traitors, who didn't really have much protagonism in the round and only one of them was even in the swarm of grey locusts

it was, to this day, one of the most fun rounds I've played and I even salted a bit in deadchat, without ahelping cause that's gay, and what I think was an admin laughed along
losing these kinds of experiences because an admin from the hugbox server comes online and is overwhelmed by people having fun would be really sad

All well and good when you are having fun. But when this happens almost every round because a group of tiders want to suck all the fun out of a round for themselves, it quickly gets annoying. Most tiders just steal whatever they want, take minor escalation as justification to hunt down another person and space them and see Security doing their job as reason to shout "SHITSEC" over comms constantly which makes everyone anti-sec start memeing around.

Its just a stupid snowballing situation that leads to chaos where Sec keeps messing up, because anyone could be an enemy, humans using AI law 2 to break out of confinement, valid arrests being taken by tiders as an excuse to be shit for the rest of the round. Their contribution to a round is to cause as much friction as possible, until they get an excuse to start really self-antaging. Then lethals start getting thrown around.

[skoglol]

The OP is presenting tide as fun for all, but that isn't the case. In these """wow haha so funny break things""" situations there are bound to be a fair few people who did not enjoy their time due to some random greyshits setting out to make their life harder. Sure, its just a game, some times things are shitty. Tide is however not a one time occurence, for some people it is all they ever do in game.

[Denton]

Do you get paid for each shit thread you open in this forum

[Reeeee]

Do you get paid for each shit thread you open in this forum

do you get paid for each salty post you make?

[Reeeee]

...Sure, its just a game, some times things are shitty...

10. Losing is part of the game.

Tide is better than no tide.

[wesoda25]

why isn’t libbysnow on post approval yet?

[bandit]

The OP is presenting tide as fun for all, but that isn't the case. In these """wow haha so funny break things""" situations there are bound to be a fair few people who did not enjoy their time due to some random greyshits setting out to make their life harder. Sure, its just a game, some times things are shitty. Tide is however not a one time occurence, for some people it is all they ever do in game.

The OP is also leaving out many blatant cases of OOC in IC, attacking people for very little reason, and the like, as well as the perspectives of those who would like to enjoy a round but are no able to because it is a toxic waste dump.

EDIT: this actually might be a different round, in which case disregard

[Kryson]

Tide is essential for giving antagonists cover and giving sec something to do that isn't high stakes validhunting.

Tide can be excessive at sometimes, and that when admins should step in to empower sec to deal with the problem by spawning equipment, authorizing the death penalty for tiding or sending reinforcements.

Also, if a tider makes themselves valid by doing something like smashing all the windows 4noraisin you should do your duty and kill them.

[Reeeee]

EDIT: this actually might be a different round, in which case disregard

any relevance to real rounds is accidental etc.
Poll is the content, ignore rest of the shit.

why isn’t libbysnow on post approval yet?

This is what i ask of myself each day that passes.

[Armhulen]

we already ban for people who start shit then ahelp when they get smacked back, that's enough for me

[BeeSting12]

There's a difference between tide and "minor IC crime." There's a word filter on the forums to replace greytide with minor IC crime I believe, I have it disabled so I'm not sure anymore. Disable it if you want to read my post properly. I am 100% for minor IC crime, but tide is something that should only happen occasionally.

Breaking the occasional window, some minor theft, fist fights in the halls, trespassing/breaking and entering all creates interesting conflict and gives security something to do other than hunt antags. That's minor IC crime and I have no problem with it.

Tiding is something that shouldn't be happening every round. The pizza riot picture that libby posted looks like a really fun round and is the type of emergent gameplay we should be giving players the freedom to create, even if it breaks the rules (see the secret rule of mayhem or whatever we call it now). I would consider that tiding but I also wouldn't ban anyone for it because it looks fun. Stealing all access every round and distributing it to the whole station or making it your life's mission to shove security every time you don't win the grief lottery is not acceptable and should be met with assistant jobbans/regular bans.

This is already outlined under rule 1 precedents in the rules:

Unprovoked grief (occasionally known as greytiding), repeated cases of minor unprovoked grief, and unprovoked grief targeted towards specific players or groups (i.e. metagrudging) fall under rule 1. Admins may follow up on grief with allowing the affected parties to ignore normal escalation policy or measures such as warnings or bans.

[Flatulent]

you already know the answer. It is no.

[Tlaltecuhtli]

go to manyel

[PKPenguin321]

Wow, I actually used this thread as an example of what not to post in this board, but here it is again years later
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 33&t=11057

Bad example: I hate greytiders. There isn't any proposed rule or policy change, just a statement. The thread is locked.
Real life example: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=9238 https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 33&t=10759 Two threads, both about greytiding, both with endless bickering, both accomplishing nothing policy-wise because a rule change was never actually proposed.

Go give those threads a read, then if you can somehow come out of them without wanting to die, you'll understand why I'm locking this thread preemptively