Dynamic and multiple antags

[BeeSting12]

With dynamic mode and bagil reaching pops of over 70 players regularly, getting multiple types of antags at the same time is no longer an edge case. Other threads discussed theoretical scenarios that usually only occurred with admin intervention, but this is now an actually relevant issue as players get multiple antags at once and aren't sure as to which one to prioritize, especially if objectives conflict. This thread is to discuss policy implications of which objective takes priority.

I have two examples that have happened in the recent past:

1. I am a round start cultist/get elected to leader. I am later on converted to revs. Which takes priority? Should I be able to convert my fellow revs to the cult? Can I just focus on cult objectives since if Nar'Sie is summoned, the heads will die anyway? The revs ended up getting killed so I lost that antag but I ended up trying to convert fellow revs and just focusing on cult objectives since under my logic, the heads would die if Nar'Sie was summoned.

2. Roundstart, a blood brother spawns with the HoP as his partner. He gets converted to revs. Can he or should he kill the HoP? Is it okay to stop revs from killing him in favor of abandoning him on mining? Can he decide which way he wants to play it without getting in trouble, or is the only right way to play it to kill him?

Policy Solutions: The best way to go about it would be to give players a chart similar to the "is it human" chart showing which antag's objectives takes priority. This does take a lot of players' free agency in deciding how they want to play an interesting situation but it also might be worth the administrative headache of investigating team-kills because of conflicting objectives. By making it clear from the start, players would know (the following is an example and not indicative of current policy) that despite being a rev-cultist, they can't kill their fellow cultist HoP because cult objectives take priority.

Code Solutions: Introduce a way for antags to prevent themselves from being converted. Then, if they get converted, it's their own fault.

Traitors: Free Syndicate mindshield implant in the traitor uplink which prevents conversion to cults and revs. Instead cults will sacrifice them and revs just have to figure something out.

Blood Brothers: Make the antag itself work like a mindshield. Make a message like "Soandso's love for their blood brother overpowers any foul magicks and brainwashing" show up when a conversion is attempted, idk.

Changelings: Brain Shielding. Free evolution that prevents conversion.

Nuke Ops: Roundstart implanted with Syndicate mindshields.

Cult/Revs: Whichever one they were converted to first would act as a mindshield against the other. Might make it difficult to get cult converts but cults are also super powerful so not a big issue.

I deliberately designed these so that security can't just do surgery on suspects to do an antag check unless the traitors opt into it.

Personally I'd rather see a code solution that fixes the need for a policy solution so we don't add to the essay of rules we already have.

edit: Here's some other threads on the issue.

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 33&t=23372 No headmin ruling.
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 33&t=16211 Looks like Rustled said admins shouldn't be making team antags with solo antags active which is obviously irrelevant now due to dynamic.

I'm not going to go back further than page 12 since as far as I can tell this has only been discussed theoretically and under the assumption admin intervention was involved.

[wesoda25]

Really I think code solutions would be for the best

[Nabski]

If things like brainwashing/abductor/wizard mindbreak objectives could be added to the list as well that would be nice.

[SkeletalElite]

I don't think it has to be free powers/items just give antags conversion immunity in general.

You can flavor it however you want.
Traitors have some tech/genetic/trained resistance to brain washing. There is no way to remove this resistance or tell if someone has it except by trying to convert them
Same for nukies
Wizards are protected cuz magic.
Lings are monsters that can't be controlled.
Cultists are protected because eldritch god magic.
Blood brothers loyalty cannot be overcome
Revs can't be brainwashed because their mind isn't their own.

Alternatively, if an antag is one that doesn't keep any benefits upon losing their antag status, getting converted can make them lose their solo antag.
(Not a good solution for lings/wizards/nukies/traitors but works for the others.)

[imsxz]

pretty sure revs+cult at the same time straight up cant happen without 100 threat

not sure tho so if im wrong please please say something. cite actual server config rather than the default tho.

[BeeSting12]

pretty sure revs+cult at the same time straight up cant happen without 100 threat

not sure tho so if im wrong please please say something. cite actual server config rather than the default tho.

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/issues/51009

[Tlaltecuhtli]

brainwash > team antag > solo antag

[saprasam]

just make it so there can only be one teamantag roundstart