Being valid for calling someone slurs?

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Eskjjlj
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Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby Eskjjlj » Wed May 13, 2020 2:31 am #561631

It has come to my attention a small group of admins have recently ruled that a player was valid for round removal after one instance of calling another player the n-word.
According to those admins if your character's skin color is black you are allowed to remove from the round anyone calling you the n-word : "nigger."

This ruling is surprising considering the fact gamer words are not banned from the servers. It seems like the admins in question are strongly opposed to the use of the n-word and as they are not allowed to ban players using those words they simply ignore their pleas for help as the offended party kills them. A punishment by proxy so to speak.
In that case why just enforce this policy for the use of the n-word? Countless slurs and derogatory terms exist and for fairness you should be allowed to kill people calling you a "faggot", "kike", "chink", "catfag", "furry", "ligger", and so on, if the circumstances allow it. The circumstances being : your character is chinese, a felinid, a lizard or has a jewish name....

Or maybe it should not be allowed to round remove someone for using offensive speech?
Perhaps the American servers should have relaxed language policies as free speech is protected under the 1st Amendment, unlike the European servers.



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wesoda25
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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby wesoda25 » Wed May 13, 2020 2:35 am #561632

act like a retard get treated like one lol

also furry and ligger aren't slurs they're fictional words
Naloac wrote:Since you have asked for a *community opinion* and im the player voted admin. Ill give you my official opinion straight from the *community* Your fucking retarded

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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby Eskjjlj » Wed May 13, 2020 2:54 am #561635

wesoda25 wrote:also furry and ligger aren't slurs they're fictional words


The only thing you know about the other player is that their character's skin is black, or that they are a felinid/lizard. You can only see their virtual avatar in game so why should insulting the black character make you more valid than insulting the felinid or the lizard?

Those words do not reference the player behind the screen but the virtual avatar they are controlling. So any discriminatory language directed at the avatar should have the same weight when considering valids.
Otherwise it would not be fair that black characters can kill the offender but not lizards when the only difference is a 'l' in place of a 'n'.

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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby XivilaiAnaxes » Wed May 13, 2020 2:56 am #561636

Bruh calling someone a nagger just means some admins won't punish you for behaving like one and ungaing them to death under "escalation" (or them killing you because you fucked it up).

...also americans cry more than anyone else in the world if you say it don't pretend you actually have free speech that isn't found elsewhere.

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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby wesoda25 » Wed May 13, 2020 2:57 am #561637

im saying that anyone can kill the offender, just not for fictional words
Naloac wrote:Since you have asked for a *community opinion* and im the player voted admin. Ill give you my official opinion straight from the *community* Your fucking retarded

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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby feem » Wed May 13, 2020 4:35 am #561642

how dare the admins not protect me when I instigate fights by being intentionally provocative and get dunked

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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby PKPenguin321 » Wed May 13, 2020 4:40 am #561643

what server was this on? on manuel instant deathmatch over saying the n word is absolute shit non-RP
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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby cybersaber101 » Wed May 13, 2020 4:41 am #561644

He got his reaction from the insult and got their shit kicked, I see no problem.
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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby XivilaiAnaxes » Wed May 13, 2020 4:52 am #561646

PKPenguin321 wrote:what server was this on? on manuel instant deathmatch over saying the n word is absolute shit non-RP

Americans do it all the time irl how is it bad roleplay :^)

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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby Tlaltecuhtli » Wed May 13, 2020 4:58 am #561647

if its not
1.2 Spamming any channel is not allowed, this goes for radio spam, AI vox announcement spam, paper at camera spam and other forms of spam. Non-antagonists doing so may not defend themselves and may suffer from IC or OOC consequences. Antagonists can to a certain extent, moreso with reading things like WGW over the radio, but may be told by admins to stop if it becomes excessive. Spamming can result from in-game admin intervention ending in you dying, to admin warnings, to bans for excessive or repeated spamming.


or




8 Erotic/creepy stuff is not allowed.
No form of erotic roleplay is allowed on the servers, including things that could be construed as sexual by unwilling participants.


then the admin is using his own set of rules, which can be fixed with a complaint

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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby NoxVS » Wed May 13, 2020 5:33 am #561653

Tlaltecuhtli wrote:if its not
1.2 Spamming any channel is not allowed, this goes for radio spam, AI vox announcement spam, paper at camera spam and other forms of spam. Non-antagonists doing so may not defend themselves and may suffer from IC or OOC consequences. Antagonists can to a certain extent, moreso with reading things like WGW over the radio, but may be told by admins to stop if it becomes excessive. Spamming can result from in-game admin intervention ending in you dying, to admin warnings, to bans for excessive or repeated spamming.


or




8 Erotic/creepy stuff is not allowed.
No form of erotic roleplay is allowed on the servers, including things that could be construed as sexual by unwilling participants.


then the admin is using his own set of rules, which can be fixed with a complaint

1. Don't be a dick.

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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby Flatulent » Wed May 13, 2020 5:37 am #561654

round removal is almost never okay what is this shit
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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby Tlaltecuhtli » Wed May 13, 2020 5:55 am #561656

NoxVS wrote:1. Don't be a dick.


good take sir, why do we even need admins when we can murder anyone for talking shit or not doing things as i like

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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby Vekter » Wed May 13, 2020 6:23 am #561659

I put it in how I handle instigating a fight. If you fuck with someone and they beat your ass for it, don't ahelp me.
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Spoiler:
Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby Anuv » Wed May 13, 2020 6:31 am #561663

Lmao yeah can racists please be a protected class on the servers and immune from rule 1? Thank you
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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby Vekter » Wed May 13, 2020 6:57 am #561666

In all honesty, the conversation for this tends to go in the same direction every time - it's clear a good chunk of the players either don't give a shit or would rather not have their language policed while a good few admins feel to the contrary.

Nothing's going to change because everyone's too afraid of pissing the player base off.

But no, personally, I have no problem either smiting or making valid people who use slurs.
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Spoiler:
Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
[17:43] <Vekter> Aranclanos for nicest coder 2015
[17:44] <Aranclanos> fuck you

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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby XivilaiAnaxes » Wed May 13, 2020 7:14 am #561669

I dislike language police because it almost always creates an unpleasant and overbearing do-gooder admin culture, I see no problem with "if he calls you a nigger just crack his dome lmao".

Although it would probably lead to autistic killbaiters spamming it until they get someone trying to unga them - it would probably get tiresome quickly.

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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby Stickymayhem » Wed May 13, 2020 7:40 am #561671

Eskjjlj wrote:Perhaps the American servers should have relaxed language policies as free speech is protected under the 1st Amendment, unlike the European servers.


imagine being such a denthead that you think you can invoke the fucking 1st ammendment for a free 2d spessman game
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Naloac wrote:reminder to suck jannie cock daily to avoid being banned. dare to speak out about a jannies being shit and you will be banned!!

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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby PKPenguin321 » Wed May 13, 2020 7:41 am #561672

Stickymayhem wrote:
Eskjjlj wrote:Perhaps the American servers should have relaxed language policies as free speech is protected under the 1st Amendment, unlike the European servers.


imagine being such a denthead that you think you can invoke the fucking 1st ammendment for a free 2d spessman game

he took the baaaait lmaoooo
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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby Armhulen » Wed May 13, 2020 7:50 am #561673

how can you fall for the THREADLY meme about freedom of speech in n word threads
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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby Armhulen » Wed May 13, 2020 7:58 am #561674

XivilaiAnaxes wrote:I dislike language police because it almost always creates an unpleasant and overbearing do-gooder admin culture, I see no problem with "if he calls you a nigger just crack his dome lmao".

Although it would probably lead to autistic killbaiters spamming it until they get someone trying to unga them - it would probably get tiresome quickly.

people already do this, they just beat the shit out of people and wait for someone to try and smack back so they can escalate. as long as they aren't ahelping they can do this pretty much every round. and believe me, it's a lot more aggravating to get randomly shoved or punched by someone multiple times in a round until someone kills him/he kills someone only to do it next round.

i dunno bro, i just can't see myself defending killbaiters coming up with new tactics to annoy people into a fight
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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby Fatal » Wed May 13, 2020 8:45 am #561676

It's clear the only answer is to ban the n-word

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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby trollbreeder » Wed May 13, 2020 8:48 am #561677

we literally had this exact same discussion 4 months ago
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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby XivilaiAnaxes » Wed May 13, 2020 8:55 am #561680

Fatal wrote:It's clear the only answer is to ban the n-word

Screw it just lock the thread now.

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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby Istoprocent1 » Wed May 13, 2020 10:52 am #561685

Don't fall for the jewish trick of Problem-Reaction-Solution (Ordo ab Chao).

Edit: Wise words from the Simp Master himself -

In my humble opinion all slurs should be allowed and not be actionable neither IC nor OOC. Killing people IC or punishing people OOC for words is retarded.

Edit 2: I am retarded, because this is policy thread.

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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby Eskjjlj » Wed May 13, 2020 11:30 am #561687

PKPenguin321 wrote:what server was this on? on manuel instant deathmatch over saying the n word is absolute shit non-RP


It wasn't on manuel. The player was called n-word once and went ballistic, removed the other from the round.

trollbreeder wrote:we literally had this exact same discussion 4 months ago

XivilaiAnaxes wrote:
Fatal wrote:It's clear the only answer is to ban the n-word

Screw it just lock the thread now.


It's not about banning the nagger word but whether or not calling someone a slur over their character race or species makes you valid similarly to reciting WGW.

Just think of all the times a felinid got called a furry, catfag or a nyagger. They should be allowed to round remove whoever used racial slurs against them since most people here seems to agree a conflict was instigated by using those words against them.

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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby SkeletalElite » Wed May 13, 2020 11:47 am #561690

It's one thing to instigate a conflict with someone because they insulted you, it's another to round remove them like they had recited WGW because they called you a nigger.

It's pretty clearly excessive.
I doubt this thread will lead to any concrete ruling because it really depends on the context. An idiot being dunked on for being an idiot is pretty different to murdering someone because you don't like something they said.

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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby Arianya » Wed May 13, 2020 12:12 pm #561692

This is a sucky thread that isn't going to go anywhere productive fast. I appreciate people miss the NTR Hut but if you really want to scream at each other about free speech then I recommend posting on /pol/.

It has come to my attention a small group of admins have recently ruled


a) One admin rules on a given ticket/case, not "a small group"
b) Policy Discussion isn't for discussing specific cases - it's pretty clear from later posts that you're just trying to admin complaint a decision you dislike without being held to any kind of standard for making a complaint.
c) It's pretty shitty of you to avoid posting either logs or a RoundID so you can frame the round however you want instead of letting people judge for themselves - even if this would be the wrong place for it.

Refocusing on the actual policy instead of /pol/lite discussion - the policy question seems to be:

If I provoke someone verbally can they escalate to physical violence


The rules state:
If a player wrongs you(theft, attacks, etc), you may retaliate.


While not specifically delineated, I think we can agree by common sense that there are words you can say that can constitute a wrong - and in the instance using provocative language would seem to be a "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" variety decision. I would personally not see any issue with instigation arising from that, especially if you're trying to be confrontational.

Regarding escalating to round removal - it's a bit hard to comment on not knowing the specifics of the round in question, but in precedent it's not been seen as reasonable to escalate to round removal simply on instigation - that said, Rule 6 provides for a in-game admin to make a ruling, and in the past there have been instances where admins have refused to rule regarding otherwise "bad" escalation in cases where they feel the complainant is acting in bad faith (i.e. banbaiting). But again, this isn't the place to discuss specific cases, but overall policy - so if the secondary question is
Should using provocative language entitle the wronged party to round removal you?
then generally the answer is no, it shouldn't, based on precedent.
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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby pugie » Wed May 13, 2020 12:21 pm #561693

This ruling was dumb and you should file an admin complaint instead of a policy discussion because round removing someone for saying a word that isn't smut is shitty.
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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby Jack7D1 » Wed May 13, 2020 1:23 pm #561704

Aww shit, here we go again.
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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby Man_Shroom » Wed May 13, 2020 2:00 pm #561705

Brb gonna make my character black so im allowed to kill more people in valid escalation. Thanks based killmins

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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby Gamarr » Wed May 13, 2020 2:38 pm #561710

What I don't get is that harassing someone for calling you a ligger Is allowed. There likely is a disconnect here though because the bureaucrats can never function coherently together here.

How to get ruined- Calling a lizard a ligger
-WGW
-Being a synth (because any Human crew > any borg as per Asimov)

Using the rl-associate of ligger and dying seems fine, and I'm for killing them. I'm also for the persons freedom to say it. This is no different than killing Ian if you ask me and exists like all those things above just to stir shit.

Jumping to round-removal is likely what is too far in this whole thing.

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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby wesoda25 » Wed May 13, 2020 4:05 pm #561718

Fatal wrote:It's clear the only answer is to ban the n-word

Doesn’t seem clear to me
Naloac wrote:Since you have asked for a *community opinion* and im the player voted admin. Ill give you my official opinion straight from the *community* Your fucking retarded

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Re: Being valid for calling someone slurs?

Postby capn_monkeypaw » Wed May 13, 2020 4:51 pm #561723

This isn't a policy thread, it's a thinly veiled admin complaint. Feel free to submit one if you feel up to it.

We just closed a different dumb gamer word thread, we don't need another one.

edit: removed commentary that was not relevant to the situation at hand.


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