/tg/Station 13

I feel like this epitomises the worst of miner gamer loot. We don't allow nonantags to start totally random lethal escalation vs another nonantag in any other circumstance, but when a miner has gotten a scroll from fighting an NPC boss they can mark any player they wish for almost certain death as the entire server is implored to validhunt them, ending in them being killed & maimed for something that was entirely out of their control all because someone on a seperate z-level defeated an NPC boss.
I don't think the difficulty of bubblegum matters here, at the end of the day it's an NPC boss with patterns that can be memorised. It can be superhard but eventually people will get the hang of it, beat it constantly & we're at the same end result here, a nonantag with an item that due to previous rulings apparently allows anyone to be valid'd.

This is something I've been sitting on for a while but what provoked me to make this thread was a recent round on Terry where people were fed up with blood contracting and a miner tried to shoot the miner who pulled the contract out versus a random security officer. This ended in the miner who used the contract pulling out an ebow esword & the sacred flame spell & murdering said miner who tried to kill them, followed by literally everyone else on the shuttle as they attempted to kill the guy who just started murderboning with ebow esword. I assume it was ruled as valid escalation for the non-antag miner who pulled the contract to murderbone literally everyone on the shuttle because the contract is permitted for non-antags to use.

Personally, I'd really prefer if blood contract was restricted to antag only usage at the least. There is other stuff to be discussed here though, like is a miner valid for calling a contract on some random guy because that's an extremely shitty thing to do and honestly antagonistic, furthermore can the miner kill anyone in self defense after people try to arrest/kill them because they condemned someone to almost-certain death for no reason. Please discuss.

I agree, blood contracts should be subject to the rules just as other items are. It's just so weird that we allow a nonantag to blood contract someone, usually killing them for the rest of the round, just because they managed to robust bugglegum. Sure, it's hard, but I don't think you should be able to ruin their round for no good reason other then "haha, I got the free self-antag item".

Maybe if we have the blood contract a separate use that isn't just "ensure one person dies", like giving the user blood magic or something?

I legit don't understand why they were ever okay to use as nonantag and it feels like the only reason they were ruled that way was because kor was design lead and I think headmin when they were added

The item along with it's alternative, bottle of mayhem are okay to be used because it's a reward for taking down really hard to kill boss. At least that's what the previous headmin policy thread decided on.

I think antag only rewards are a code issue. If you truly feel like it ruins LRP.

I unironically think the sort of thing keeps the game feeling comical instead of like an office simulator like many of the other servers.

"it's okay because it's behind a really hard boss" is the kind of excuse that only miner mains believe

Shaps-cloud wrote:"it's okay because it's behind a really hard boss" is the kind of excuse that only miner mains believe

"Risk perma-death to get an item you can only use as an antag" is the kind of thinking only an HRP coder gets any enjoyment from.

If the item is bad it should be changed.

Otherwise the risk factor is what allows people to use it as a reward.

Nuff said.

Eh, it can probably be dumped out or have a rule making the user accountable. Licenses to griff this hard is a bit too much.

Miners have an item that makes people temporarily insane.

Okay. Whats the issue? Does it break your immersion or something? I mean admins can literally drop lighting bolts and fireballs on people.

I for one say leave it in. Simply for the principle that this is not a realistic game, and doesn't need to be one.

The issue isn't that it breaks immersion, but that it allows a miner to have someone killed from a different z-level with zero repercussions. The item obligates people to try and kill the player you use it on. How exactly that can that be considered OK? I'd say we just yoink it from the code and be done with it.

EOBGames wrote:The issue isn't that it breaks immersion, but that it allows a miner to have someone killed from a different z-level with zero repercussions. The item obligates people to try and kill the player you use it on. How exactly that can that be considered OK? I'd say we just yoink it from the code and be done with it.

I could do the same thing with a BSA bro

both have the same time constraints.

It's just one has the risk of perma-death to get it, and the other one is just very expensive.

If we're gonna yoink it from code(not policy I know) A replacement thingy of sorts would be rad.

Shadowflame909 wrote:

EOBGames wrote:The issue isn't that it breaks immersion, but that it allows a miner to have someone killed from a different z-level with zero repercussions. The item obligates people to try and kill the player you use it on. How exactly that can that be considered OK? I'd say we just yoink it from the code and be done with it.

I could do the same thing with a BSA bro

both have the same time constraints.

It's just one has the risk of perma-death to get it, and the other one is just very expensive.

Shooting someone with a BSA would net you a cool bwoink. The same can't be said for the blood contract.

Would really suck if I got gud enough to robust Bubbles only to get this and not be allowed to use it.

Maybe using it antags the user with an "escape alive" objective, and everyone gets to know who called the blood contract?

BrianBackslide wrote:Would really suck if I got gud enough to robust Bubbles only to get this and not be allowed to use it.

Maybe using it antags the user with an "escape alive" objective, and everyone gets to know who called the blood contract?

This makes the problem of the item worse in my opinion: we shouldn't be rewarding the job that focuses on items used to murderize npcs with a carte blanche to murderbone. There's a ton of cool loot ideas that can be brainstormed that don't focus around removing people from the round... probably worth a consideration actually.

Shaps-cloud wrote:I legit don't understand why they were ever okay to use as nonantag and it feels like the only reason they were ruled that way was because kor was design lead and I think headmin when they were added

kor wanted to add a traitor item without having to go through the uplink, and figured lavaland was a good way to go about it. """people""" (miner mains) bitched that it was a waste of a loot roll if they couldn't use it as a non antag so he just allowed it to be used as a non-antag.

It made a lot more sense when the balance behind knowledge was working and no one could really game the bosses yet so it was extremely rare.

Now, trying to find sense in why someone coded literal self-antag gear as drops to boss mobs meant for crew is still a bit of a ? For me

People roundstart running down to lavaland with the glutton trait Evey round so they can get the funny self antag morph injector. And kill the entire station.

Oh god morphs, yeah, I hate morphs, just funny free antag item.

blood contracts exist so you can metagrudge and get away with it because it’s allowed via the scroll
shittiest fucking item, gaurantees somebody being permakilled or half the station dead
fuck miner loot and fuck the people who powergame miner

I think free antag gift card should be kept in the game because i like free antag gift card

ok true lets keep it

Mining is just legal self antaging because Kor said so.

just had a manuel round with no admins where a miner used blood contract and brig and got 8 people gutted.

It's honestly kind of stupid that just because a miner can kill megafauna, they're allowed to use an item that leads to someone getting round removed as a nonantag. It enables metagrudging and either needs to be removed, reworked, or restricted to antag only.

how is it nonantag removal if they get turned into antag

They meant the user, not the target.

what if the target was just given the choice to decline the effect

nianjiilical wrote:what if the target was just given the choice to decline the effect

yeh this would fix the problem

no it sounds like a great way to spam people.

easy solution:
1) contract always valid to use
2) chainsaw man vores people he kills slaugher demon style
3)once he dies everyone is revived

now there is no grief

pugie wrote:no it sounds like a great way to spam people.

make it so you can offer it only once then

An announcement in top right of your screen that works like ctf announcement but only when you are alive

just leave it in, it's barely ever seen
dying is not the end of the world, especially when you are given a robust chainsaw to defend yourself with

remanseptim wrote:just leave it in, it's barely ever seen
dying is not the end of the world, especially when you are given a robust chainsaw to defend yourself with

The chainsaw doesn't stun & takes up two hands & is clumsy to use also dying is literally the end of your round, no one said end of the world. Stuff being barely seen isn't an excuse for it being self antag content, and it isn't barely ever seen. Weak opinions that can only be expected from an anime avatar...

pugie wrote:The chainsaw doesn't stun & takes up two hands & is clumsy to use also dying is literally the end of your round, no one said end of the world. Stuff being barely seen isn't an excuse for it being self antag content, and it isn't barely ever seen. Weak opinions that can only be expected from an anime avatar...

also it isn't self-antag, it's becoming antag via game mechanics like morph or an obsessed role. not everything is a mess to be cleaned, jannie, carnage can be fun.

Honestly. Remove it and give something that adds to Survivability of the miners or SOMETHING that makes mining more fun or helps fight other bosses that isnt a barrier related item.

This is without a doubt best served with a code solution, but until that point we’ve decided to restrict its use primarily to antags. Of course you can continue to use it to target anyone who deserves it; such as a traitor.
However this should be done with the consideration that the player will likely be round removed. So it shouldn’t be used because you got in a shoving match with someone.

Headmin Votes:
Coconutwarrior97: Yes, I have really fond memories of this and I think its a very classic ss13 thing to go and beat the shit out of the guy that got marked by the contract. However I kind of agree with the sentiment its a beat to easy to nab these days since alot of people know how to kill megafauna efficiently.
Domitius: Yes.
Naloac: Yes.