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Augmented Person Silicon Policy Discussion

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:18 pm
by Timonk
why and how is a fully augmented person with a robotic voice human? i almost ate a note over that the other week. basically the previous ruling is 5 years old and basically "oog borg is borg human is human human cant be not human"

(this is my second attempt at posting this please approve it)

Re: Augmented Person Silicon Policy Discussion

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:52 pm
by Armhulen
I would love a tool or hud overlay that just plain told AIs what counts as human. If we did that, there should be a certain point where genetic and cybernetic modifications make you no longer considered human.

But since this is Policy and not Coding, Yeah I think if you can confirm fully augmented people are actually fully augmented they should not be human

Re: Augmented Person Silicon Policy Discussion

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:23 pm
by Ayy Lemoh
Armhulen wrote:I would love a tool or hud overlay that just plain told AIs what counts as human. If we did that, there should be a certain point where genetic and cybernetic modifications make you no longer considered human.

But since this is Policy and not Coding, Yeah I think if you can confirm fully augmented people are actually fully augmented they should not be human

Too bad changelings and technically abductors (their disguises could be compatible with such an idea though) still exist. Mainly the changelings part.

Re: Augmented Person Silicon Policy Discussion

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:11 pm
by NoxVS
Ayy Lemoh wrote:
Armhulen wrote:I would love a tool or hud overlay that just plain told AIs what counts as human. If we did that, there should be a certain point where genetic and cybernetic modifications make you no longer considered human.

But since this is Policy and not Coding, Yeah I think if you can confirm fully augmented people are actually fully augmented they should not be human

Too bad changelings and technically abductors (their disguises could be compatible with such an idea though) still exist. Mainly the changelings part.

changelings would be fine since they are already indistinguishable until they use their abilities. abductors are already able to be seen through simply by looking at them, so it wouldnt be a huge issue

Re: Augmented Person Silicon Policy Discussion

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:28 pm
by BrotherBeyond
I thought the current policy was if you scan them with a health scanner and it says anythin other than human, they're not human. Augmented peeps are always human on the health scanner, unless they werent to begin with.

Re: Augmented Person Silicon Policy Discussion

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:33 pm
by Armhulen
BrotherBeyond wrote:I thought the current policy was if you scan them with a health scanner and it says anythin other than human, they're not human. Augmented peeps are always human on the health scanner, unless they werent to begin with.

Which is ridiculous and silly, why is android a species and a human at the same time

Re: Augmented Person Silicon Policy Discussion

PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:01 am
by Timonk
if I brain transplant a human brain into a lizard does that mean the human got augmented with lizard body parts

Re: Augmented Person Silicon Policy Discussion

PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:21 am
by NoxVS
Armhulen wrote:
BrotherBeyond wrote:I thought the current policy was if you scan them with a health scanner and it says anythin other than human, they're not human. Augmented peeps are always human on the health scanner, unless they werent to begin with.

Which is ridiculous and silly, why is android a species and a human at the same time

Android =/= Augmented human

Androids are a species obtainable through admin fuckery, the magic mirror (I think), or mutation toxin obtained by botany strange seeds
Augmented humans are created by fully augmenting a human, which results in someone who is still human but has the appearance of an android
Androids and augmented humans look either identical or extremely similar, to the point where you can't tell at a glance
The only real distinguishing features are mechanics (Androids dont need to breathe and are immune to radiation) and voice. Androids speak like a robot, but augmented humans can also have the same voice by swapping out their tongue for the robotic voicebox robotics can get.

Re: Augmented Person Silicon Policy Discussion

PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:21 am
by Timonk
Then how can an ai distinguish them

Re: Augmented Person Silicon Policy Discussion

PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:44 pm
by Ayy Lemoh
NoxVS wrote:changelings would be fine since they are already indistinguishable until they use their abilities. abductors are already able to be seen through simply by looking at them, so it wouldnt be a huge issue

The issue with abductors lie less with being obvious (despite all the jokes of abductors being bald people, there is a difference between bald humans and non-humans) and more due to the fact that they need their disguises in order to not be spotted. While the AI already can't track an abductor agent due to their helmet, it would be annoying if you were doing everything perfectly yet got spotted due to the AI having a fucking sixth sense that can detect highly advanced aliens however not changelings.

Re: Augmented Person Silicon Policy Discussion

PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:30 pm
by Tlaltecuhtli
if the health scan says its human then its human

Re: Augmented Person Silicon Policy Discussion

PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:58 pm
by Timonk
health scan also says monkey men are human yet they arent

Re: Augmented Person Silicon Policy Discussion

PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:18 pm
by BrotherBeyond
Armhulen wrote:I would love a tool or hud overlay that just plain told AIs what counts as human. If we did that, there should be a certain point where genetic and cybernetic modifications make you no longer considered human.


As much as I love you Arm, that's fuckin retarded. A big part of antags being successful is just keeping their bloody mouth shut whilst they're wearing a hardsuit or whatever, so silicons cant valid em. And a surprising amount of people have felinid race selected but have tail and ears off, which causes them to become a 'felinid-derived mutant'. That'd show on the HUD or whatever.

Re: Augmented Person Silicon Policy Discussion

PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:22 pm
by Screemonster
BrotherBeyond wrote:
Armhulen wrote:I would love a tool or hud overlay that just plain told AIs what counts as human. If we did that, there should be a certain point where genetic and cybernetic modifications make you no longer considered human.


As much as I love you Arm, that's fuckin retarded. A big part of antags being successful is just keeping their bloody mouth shut whilst they're wearing a hardsuit or whatever, so silicons cant valid em. And a surprising amount of people have felinid race selected but have tail and ears off, which causes them to become a 'felinid-derived mutant'. That'd show on the HUD or whatever.

so make disguises that cover face show as unknown

if someone's an unknown then you can't identify them one way or the other

Re: Augmented Person Silicon Policy Discussion

PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:26 pm
by Armhulen
Screemonster wrote:
BrotherBeyond wrote:
Armhulen wrote:I would love a tool or hud overlay that just plain told AIs what counts as human. If we did that, there should be a certain point where genetic and cybernetic modifications make you no longer considered human.


As much as I love you Arm, that's fuckin retarded. A big part of antags being successful is just keeping their bloody mouth shut whilst they're wearing a hardsuit or whatever, so silicons cant valid em. And a surprising amount of people have felinid race selected but have tail and ears off, which causes them to become a 'felinid-derived mutant'. That'd show on the HUD or whatever.

so make disguises that cover face show as unknown

if someone's an unknown then you can't identify them one way or the other

agreeable, just needs to have a lot of ambiguity

Re: Augmented Person Silicon Policy Discussion

PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:37 pm
by Screemonster
the real trick is that the overlay would act strange if you got laws that redefined "human"

like, coding it to recognise the onehuman board might not be tooooooooo difficult, but the freeform board is where it would get fucky

Re: Augmented Person Silicon Policy Discussion

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:00 am
by Armhulen
I was thinking more of something on the hud, like medhud. When your laws don't really apply, you can just switch it off.

Re: Augmented Person Silicon Policy Discussion

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:16 am
by PKPenguin321
Timonk wrote:health scan also says monkey men are human yet they arent

yes they are

Re: Augmented Person Silicon Policy Discussion

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:27 am
by Timonk
ok time to rescue the humans out of genetics every round

Re: Augmented Person Silicon Policy Discussion

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:54 pm
by PKPenguin321
Timonk wrote:ok time to rescue the humans out of genetics every round

go for it

Re: Augmented Person Silicon Policy Discussion

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:59 pm
by Armhulen
monkeys always add good fun to a round.

Re: Augmented Person Silicon Policy Discussion

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:18 am
by Critawakets
BrotherBeyond wrote:And a surprising amount of people have felinid race selected but have tail and ears off, which causes them to become a 'felinid-derived mutant'. That'd show on the HUD or whatever.

Good. Fuck em, they're literally just banbaiting if they do this.

Re: Augmented Person Silicon Policy Discussion

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:50 am
by NoxVS
Timonk wrote:health scan also says monkey men are human yet they arent

If it isn’t controlled by a player it isn’t human.

Re: Augmented Person Silicon Policy Discussion

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:03 am
by cacogen
something about the ship of nostradamus
theseus

Re: Augmented Person Silicon Policy Discussion

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:38 am
by trollbreeder
NoxVS wrote:
Timonk wrote:health scan also says monkey men are human yet they arent

If it isn’t controlled by a player it isn’t human.

Sentient monkey is human? Is it like hulk where you lose humanity from one mutation (in this case, monkified)?

Re: Augmented Person Silicon Policy Discussion

PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:21 am
by Coconutwarrior97
While this is ideally something we'd like to see we believe it would create too much of a headache for players/admins to deal with. How many parts replaced with cyborg makes you nonhuman? Where do you draw that line?
Its also pretty difficult to distinguish them from regular humans at times from the sprites we've seen. As it stands we will make no changes to this policy

Headmin Votes:
Coconutwarrior97: Keep policy as is, originally I was for this change but after thinking about it some I realized alot of the potential issues which would arise from it, which I think aren't worth it.
Domitius: Keep policy as is.
Naloac: Keep policy as is.