Brainwashing and Hypnosis. Policy and Clarification's

[Dreathtil]

In my time on Manuel, I'd say I've seen and heard of enough rounds where the lack of policy and clarification starts getting confusing. I've seen that while we have several functions for hypnosis and brainwashing, when one person has too many of these. It starts to get confusing, and in my eyes almost stressful trying to manage things. And while MRP benefits more from this as I've seen multiple antags pick up Hypnoflashes and Brainwash disc's more frequently there. The LRP servers can definitely benefit from some kind of clarification being out there for groundwork.

The 3 Major things that need to be clarified in my eyes at least are.

1. Brainwashing effects VS Hypnosis effects. A person can be both Brainwashed and Hypnotized, How should brainwash and Hypnosis work in case of conflicts?

2. Brainwashing effects VS Brainwashing effects. Groundwork Rules for Conflicts and should the most recent brainwashing instance be more important then previous?

3. Brainwashing effects and Hypnosis effects VS gaining Midround Antag status. What should happen in case of a mid-round antag status being gained during something like dynamic or adminbus

The Following don't or should not need clarification because of various fundamental reasons (Such as functions)

Hypnoflash instances. This extend's to the EIC (Enchanced Interrogation Chamber) which functions very similarly, albeit better. Hypnosis instances already override each other so nothing here needs clarification

What is considered Brainwashing? Brainwashing is it's own category of antagonist but Abductee from abductors is described and pretty much treated in a very similar sense, a point of contention here can be that Obsessed is a "brainwashed target" And that Mindshield implants remove Normal Brainwashing status

Brainwashing And Hypnotizing VS already obtained Antag Status. The major point of the Neural Imprinter, and EIC is that they can be used to not round remove antags when applied. This should probably be clarified, but not contested.

[ATHATH]

I don't have much to say about most of this, but hypnosis should definitely override antag alignments, even "brainwashing" antags like cult or revs. It should have the same priority as silicon laws, IMO.

[XDTM]

I've pretty much made both of those mechanics; the way that would make more sense to me would be:

- Both hypnosis and brainwashing override antag status, if an antag isn't meant to be affected they should receive proper immunity to the status itself with code. For example, i'd argue that changelings should be immune to any brain-based manipulation due to their biology, and they should have a power to cleanse brain traumas and brainwashings (not passive immunity to avoid the antag test).
- Hypnosis should override brainwashing in case of conflict. The reason is that while brainwashing 'rewrites' the part of the brain that says what the victim wants to do, hypnosis alters perception and neural pathways so that the thought is distorted before it ever gets there.
- The latest brainwashing should get priority, the reason being that brainwashing is, effectively, overwriting a piece of brain, whatever was there earlier. So if there was an already present directive, the newer one would overwrite it. Ideally the objectives should be displayed from latest to earliest to convey the order of importance.

[BrianBackslide]

Dunno if this would be the appropriate thread to put out a few problems that I see with brainwashing, but here goes.

One problem is that I feel VERY inclined to put a "Protect (my character) at all costs" clause into my brainwashing so they don't immediately valid me for brainwashing them. Might not be as bad on Manuel where it can be ahelped at least, but I feel I can't do more gimmicky fun stuff with brainwashing as it is now without at least some sort of errata flavor text like "You don't remember who brainwashed you" kind of stuff which would be hard to enforce.

The other problem is the "How much is too much" problem. For LRP a "Kill everyone" type washing would probably fly, but what's the limit on MRP? I've been taking silicon policy as a guide for how far to push, but even then I can recall a round where the station basically went down in chaos as I made myself undisputed ruler through brainwashing. Never got bwoinked, but I was sweating for a bit on that one.

Otherwise, I think hypnosis overriding everything, and brainwashing overriding antag are probably the best way for determining how conflicts should be handled.