Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

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Jaredfogle
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Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby Jaredfogle » Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:51 pm #576104

I had a friend who proposed this to me. What if you made a grenade set to "Mah'weyh pleggh at e'ntrath!" so that when you got converted, everyone around you got owned?

I figured that this would be against the rules since it seems meta as fuck, but an admin told me that they weren't so sure. I'm curious to see if this is against the rules.

Of course if your nade kills non cultists, you're in the wrong. That's a given. Let's assume it ONLY kills cultists, though.
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Re: Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby Cobby » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:09 am #576107

It seems like an intended feature in the sense that the incantation is static throughout the round and through several rounds. Players are allowed to know the mechanics of an antagonist and I think that would include said incantation.

If there is an issue with it being used as tell (although that's kind of the point of having unique strings for each spell?) then the fix should probably be on code side.
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Re: Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby Armhulen » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:54 am #576108

Yeah we can address it when it's actually a problem, no?
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Re: Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby wesoda25 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:49 am #576110

This is a clear cut case of "don't be the one to bring it up", fucking dammit jared.
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Re: Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby Gigapuddi420 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:13 am #576113

Lowkey balanced by the possibility someone could fake cult and cause the chemist to eat shit prematurely, outlier as that might be.
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Re: Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby Jaredfogle » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:55 am #576116

wesoda25 wrote:This is a clear cut case of "don't be the one to bring it up", fucking dammit jared.

Cult sucks, it's fine. :D
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Re: Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby saprasam » Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:01 am #576118

this should be allowed just because it's so fucking funny to me
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Re: Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby PKPenguin321 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:43 am #576122

seems like nasty metagame to me in the sense that it's a lot like pre-emptively AI-sabotage-proofing atmos
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Re: Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby saprasam » Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:29 am #576127

PKPenguin321 wrote:seems like nasty metagame to me in the sense that it's a lot like pre-emptively AI-sabotage-proofing atmos

what about if they're confirmed though, i can understand this being bad if you're just going "lol time to make my anti-cult nade" every round but i dont see the problem with making one if there is confirmed cult
probably just my powergamer instincts though
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Re: Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby PKPenguin321 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:04 am #576133

well even with RP aside, there being literally no counter or tell makes it really really bad for gameplay which again is similar to the preemptive-anti-AI-sabotage rule
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Re: Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby Tlaltecuhtli » Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:15 am #576134

make cult spell use zalgo text

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Re: Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby FloranOtten » Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:45 am #576154

Emergent gameplay.
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1. You may not injure a revs are non humans or, through inaction, allow a revs are non humans to come to harm.
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Re: Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby NecromancerAnne » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:51 pm #576157

I thought voice sensors got gutted to be extremely dysfunctional in grenade making.

Also, I actually asked this way back when I first started playing the game. I'm pretty sure it was Dorsi who told me they'd consider it really bad sportsmanship and probably subject to admin ire, but that might be me misremembering which admin told me at the time. I believe it was also determined that the incantation mixes itself up a bit.

Are phrases spoken in a different language detected as their real equivalent or no? If it's no, maybe it is time to finally make the incantations be spoken in nar'sian.

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Re: Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby Jimmius » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:28 pm #576159

If you're doing it before cult is confirmed, then it's sort of metagaming. I don't really see any problem with it after cult is confirmed, it seems quite funny actually

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Re: Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby skoglol » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:47 pm #576160

I've done this extensively a while back, but only after cult is known. It's hillarious if you enjoy collecting salt.
We allow players to know all the mechanics around how antags work, so they should be fine to do this without it being by-the-rules metagaming. If someone does this all the time, or even outside cult rounds, it might become a problem. That said this anti cult strategy isnt without flaws, just say the conversion phrase on the radio and blow that individual up whereever they currently are 8-) If you get lucky, you get some kills and that player gets in trouble. You know how some people keep a microphone on SBR in their backpack during cult? Yeah those would remote set it off too.

PKPenguin321 wrote:seems like nasty metagame to me in the sense that it's a lot like pre-emptively AI-sabotage-proofing atmos

Sabotaging atmos is okay if the AI is acting suspicious, preparing bombs for a suspected cult would be no different.

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Re: Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby terranaut » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:53 pm #576161

PKPenguin321 wrote:well even with RP aside, there being literally no counter or tell makes it really really bad for gameplay which again is similar to the preemptive-anti-AI-sabotage rule

>literally no counter
just look at the guys inventory?
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Re: Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby NecromancerAnne » Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:14 pm #576164

I mean if you're spending a lot of time scoping out player inventories with spirit realm, you're probably not fighting much and observing peoples inventories is very slow and clunky. That said, the moment you spot a grenade, you may as well give a shot at detonating that preemptively over the radio.

And if you're not doing that, no, you still don't have any heads up that they have a voice trigger grenade. That's kind of the point.

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Re: Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby VexingRaven » Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:59 pm #576168

Don't they take several seconds to detonate anyway?

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Re: Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby PKPenguin321 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:21 am #576236

terranaut wrote:
PKPenguin321 wrote:well even with RP aside, there being literally no counter or tell makes it really really bad for gameplay which again is similar to the preemptive-anti-AI-sabotage rule

>literally no counter
just look at the guys inventory?

with no tell, there's no prompting to do so
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Re: Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby confused rock » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:43 pm #576269

PKPenguin321 wrote:well even with RP aside, there being literally no counter or tell makes it really really bad for gameplay which again is similar to the preemptive-anti-AI-sabotage rule

I mean you could search the chemist before converting them

which you should probably fuckin have to instead of being able to convert someone in literally 5 seconds like you can now
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Re: Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby Cobby » Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:49 pm #576275

Voice activation grenades or health grenades not having a tell isn’t entirely exclusive to cult though.
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Re: Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby Jaredfogle » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:07 am #576338

confused rock wrote:
PKPenguin321 wrote:well even with RP aside, there being literally no counter or tell makes it really really bad for gameplay which again is similar to the preemptive-anti-AI-sabotage rule

I mean you could search the chemist before converting them

which you should probably fuckin have to instead of being able to convert someone in literally 5 seconds like you can now


This sounds funny--make it so cultists are incentivized to look in peoples belongings because like...converting with holy water hurts them or some shit.
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Re: Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby BrotherBeyond » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:19 am #576343

PKPenguin321 wrote:well even with RP aside, there being literally no counter or tell makes it really really bad for gameplay which again is similar to the preemptive-anti-AI-sabotage rule


say ";Mah'weyh pleggh at e'ntrath!"

*Four voice activated grenades go off due to the phrase on radio*

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Re: Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby kopoba » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:34 am #576350

BrotherBeyond wrote:
PKPenguin321 wrote:well even with RP aside, there being literally no counter or tell makes it really really bad for gameplay which again is similar to the preemptive-anti-AI-sabotage rule


say ";Mah'weyh pleggh at e'ntrath!"

*Four voice activated grenades go off due to the phrase on radio*

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Re: Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby chocolate_bickie » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:37 pm #576377

I would have thought the ruling would have been treated similar to bombing the cult. If it doesn't win you the round straight away, it's grief.

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=12662#p329751
Armhulen wrote:if your extremely griefy thing doesn't DIRECTLY WIN THE ROUND RIGHT AFTER it's griff and bannable

the miner should be banned rn


Even if it's a smaller explosion, if the cult/random crew member randomly triggers it that player should probably still be held accountable for any deaths their explosive causes that aren't antags.

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Re: Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby PKPenguin321 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:59 pm #576392

BrotherBeyond wrote:
PKPenguin321 wrote:well even with RP aside, there being literally no counter or tell makes it really really bad for gameplay which again is similar to the preemptive-anti-AI-sabotage rule


say ";Mah'weyh pleggh at e'ntrath!"

*Four voice activated grenades go off due to the phrase on radio*

this instantaneously outs you to the whole station as an antag because non-antags can't do this without getting banned for random murder
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
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Re: Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby Not-Dorsidarf » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:41 pm #576514

PKPenguin321 wrote:
BrotherBeyond wrote:
PKPenguin321 wrote:well even with RP aside, there being literally no counter or tell makes it really really bad for gameplay which again is similar to the preemptive-anti-AI-sabotage rule


say ";Mah'weyh pleggh at e'ntrath!"

*Four voice activated grenades go off due to the phrase on radio*

this instantaneously outs you to the whole station as an antag because non-antags can't do this without getting banned for random murder


By the point in a cult round where chemists are allowed to be making and handing out anti-cult grenades to random crew you probbably have redeyes at least, so you're already covering your face in the halls.
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Re: Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby wesoda25 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:50 pm #576516

A shitty strategy and shitty metas developed to counter it are, surprisingly, shit. If people actually start doing this, obviously a code solution is in order.
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Re: Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby Tarchonvaagh » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:46 pm #576670

If you blow up post-conversion and kill cultists you break the dont kill your antag teammates rule, dont ya
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Re: Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby Cobby » Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:27 pm #576754

If you are doing this you know very well you are toeing the line so expecting not to get bwoinked means you probably need to take a different approach to the game.
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Re: Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby terranaut » Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:55 pm #576761

hows this line toeing? its specifically allowed in the rules
it's powergame as hell and super boring, but not close to a rule break
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Re: Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby Cobby » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:52 pm #576828

Being “powergame as hell” is actually against rules though so yes you open yourself to potential admins being bootyblasted if you did something like this. The situation is certainly not bannable when looking through the meta game lens I agree. Meta game however isn’t our only rule.

The fix here is to just make the convert chant static throughout the round but selected from a pool when cult starts so you have to know which one it is before your bomb works instead of asking admins to handhold the feature. I’m still confused how people can be mad you give stuff unique strings so they are easily identifiable Ingame then turn around and act surprised it’s being used as an identifying feature for stuff like bombs.
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Re: Voice sensor nades set to cult incantations -- meta or hillariously genius?

Postby Coconutwarrior97 » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:44 am #576946

If a grenade is made when there’s suspicion of cult its fine, if its done roundstart with no indication its bad.
Also as with anything in this game, don’t overdo it, like don’t do this every single round you suspect cult or it may become a problem.

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