/tg/Station 13

this is a bit of a luxury thing more than anything, but I'd like to discuss the idea of having permanent coder/debugger roles on the server for contributors that tend to need a lot of testmerges or often work on fixing runtimes.

lately I've had to bother admins a lot to give me perms so I can oversee testmerges such as combat mode and the audio PR for example, and in those cases a permanent role would be useful. Ofcourse the role would be held at a standard of "dont do anything but debugging / testing" and should only be given to people who are trusted.

Regarding the perms this role should get, it would be whatever the I think debugger role has right now, and optionally maybe spawn item / ahelp replying. Although I can imagine those last two are more problematic as we generally only need coders replying to ahelp if theyre in a TM or if someone is having code related issues. And the spawn object button is mostly for testing things on live server. But again that'd be up to the people who have this role to be trusted enough to not be 10 year olds who cant be trusted with buttons.

I'd like to see what everyone's opinion is on this idea, if it's viable at all or not, and whether or not ahelp/spawning capabilities should be included.

Codewise admin perms still need to get reworked a lot

Policy wise i'd rather just let any old admin of any rank give debugger and make debugger JUST VV and debug (see above)

Back when I was actively developing this would of been a godsend.

Hell, if we could jury rig the testmerge system to automatically pass out debugger when your PR is testmerged, that'd work even better.

iamgoofball wrote:Back when I was actively developing this would of been a godsend.

Hell, if we could jury rig the testmerge system to automatically pass out debugger when your PR is testmerged, that'd work even better.

Now this is a real idea but again some coders really shouldn't have any level of admin powers (not naming names here) How are you gonna filter out the cream from the crop

Give this proposed role to fikou to trial it out for a few months

Armhulen wrote:

iamgoofball wrote:Back when I was actively developing this would of been a godsend.

Hell, if we could jury rig the testmerge system to automatically pass out debugger when your PR is testmerged, that'd work even better.

Now this is a real idea but again some coders really shouldn't have any level of admin powers (not naming names here) How are you gonna filter out the cream from the crop

isn't this the exact same issue you have with actual admins?

Armhulen wrote:Codewise admin perms still need to get reworked a lot

Policy wise i'd rather just let any old admin of any rank give debugger and make debugger JUST VV and debug (see above)

This could work too, but there's often no admins on when I TM something.

With current debugger perms, hard no.

Even just giving VV to someone carries the risk of misuse, and we already operate under having someone babysit whoever gets debugger. Only rare cases of testmerges even require debugger perms be handed out.

I've had to monitor most of my testmerges atleast for the initial period. Ofcourse someone with VV can misuse it, which is why anyone would be held at even higher standards than an admin in terms of what they use their tools for.

We shouldn't trust every coder with VV just like we shouldn't trust every player with being admin. I personally don't see the issue but then I'd atleast like something that smooths out the god awful process of having to @ a headmin because the round restarted and I lost my debugging role.

I could do with just being able to trigger event spawns when I'm there to observe changes in action, but I could see how that'd be abuseable.

Qustinnus wrote:

Armhulen wrote:

iamgoofball wrote:Back when I was actively developing this would of been a godsend.

Hell, if we could jury rig the testmerge system to automatically pass out debugger when your PR is testmerged, that'd work even better.

Now this is a real idea but again some coders really shouldn't have any level of admin powers (not naming names here) How are you gonna filter out the cream from the crop

isn't this the exact same issue you have with actual admins?

Go ahead, fill it out


But obviously if you think admins can't handle VV then why should we trust coders, It's a lot easier to make a pr that needs testmerging than to become an admin and we've already seen non admins getting admin powers and then messing up rounds and ruining the experience for normal players. You still need to have a genuinely good answer to the question "How do we know we're giving server crashing round ruining abilities to the right people instead of the wrong people"

local man makes pathetic thread to beg for some semblance of authority on tg servers

clearly not happening and all i've had so far is people @ing me about how bad this thread is.