Is breaking into bolted dorms rooms to check for antags legal.

[pugie]

Bottom post of the previous page:

I ahelped about this, as a player on Terry broke into a bolted dorms room and stole the syndicate gear of a player that bought a surplus crate. Said player was aware the person in the dorms room was using their PDA so they broke in. I was told there should be a policy post about this by the admin on at the time and I agree, at what point is it ok to break into dorms to validhunt if ever. I'd say it falls under using metainfo, but is it against the rules to mention the fact someone is using PDA in dorms on comms, or just breaking in to steal their gear. Is it ok to use them having been to dorms to arrest them later too etcetera, or is it only OK when the player used a PDA because of players being allowed to be aware of all OOC mechanics.

Please share your thoughts.

[Cobby]

Doing it for the explicit purpose of finding antags *****WITHOUT REASON**** is shit. Doing it for NO reason, even if not for the explicit purpose of antag hunting, is shit but prob for a different thread. This does not apply exclusively to any location.

There is no point in arguing in breaking into it if you have reason, you are wasting everyone's time having to read your post. This is pretty much intended to be explicitly for doing it without reason.

I feel like after 9 years of dorms being the "buy a surplus spot" people should be a little more creative with their placement

I feel like after 9 years of trying to play for kills on a roleplaying atmossimulator to the point we had to make a server with a complete 180 of how we previously viewed the game people should be a little more considerate of the environment being created on LRP but here we are trying to explain how you cant just koolaid man your way through every obstacle because of a hypothetical that an ANTAG (wee woo neuron activation) might be on the other side.

[terranaut]

just dont bolt the door nobody checks non-red doors

[cacogen]

Yeah except when picking a dorm room to enter for one's own purposes the non-bolted ones usually take precedence

[terranaut]

why would you go into a dorm room except to buy traitor gear or erp

[Cobby]

its the closest thing we have to an IC way of going AFK that isn't just go braindead.

[cacogen]

^^^^^

[stan_albatross]

its the closest thing we have to an IC way of going AFK that isn't just go braindead.

just go to a locker

[cacogen]

you can but it's a dumb stopgap measure for something not yet accounted for in code. there should be an ic way to go afk that doesn't stop antags or people with the right access from getting to you but makes it more difficult for random crew to interfere with your character and inventory. like the sleeper equivalent of a personal locker to replace the dorms beds

[Screemonster]

you can but it's a dumb stopgap measure for something not yet accounted for in code. there should be an ic way to go afk that doesn't stop antags or people with the right access from getting to you but makes it more difficult for random crew to interfere with your character and inventory. like the sleeper equivalent of a personal locker to replace the dorms beds

put locks on the shitters problem solved

odds are good that's the reason you're away from your desk for exactly four minutes anyway

[Tlaltecuhtli]

just afk in the armory to be safe

[Flatulent]

its the closest thing we have to an IC way of going AFK that isn't just go braindead.

just go to a locker

i remember when someone did that and their ssd body was erped

[BeeSting12]

just my two cents but i think its pretty shitty of people to break down the dorm doors just for being bolted particularly during roundstart. i think it's a dumber idea to make it an admin enforced safe zone to buy surplus crates though.

[cacogen]

you can but it's a dumb stopgap measure for something not yet accounted for in code. there should be an ic way to go afk that doesn't stop antags or people with the right access from getting to you but makes it more difficult for random crew to interfere with your character and inventory. like the sleeper equivalent of a personal locker to replace the dorms beds

put locks on the shitters problem solved

odds are good that's the reason you're away from your desk for exactly four minutes anyway

I think they're also cardboard instead of difficult to investigate. This sleeper thing I'm floating no one wants would be harder to get into than welding a regular wall or hacking an airlock. I also suggested reinforcing the walls and protecting the airlocks in the dorms but I don't think people would go for that either.

[Screemonster]

you can but it's a dumb stopgap measure for something not yet accounted for in code. there should be an ic way to go afk that doesn't stop antags or people with the right access from getting to you but makes it more difficult for random crew to interfere with your character and inventory. like the sleeper equivalent of a personal locker to replace the dorms beds

put locks on the shitters problem solved

odds are good that's the reason you're away from your desk for exactly four minutes anyway

I think they're also cardboard instead of difficult to investigate. This sleeper thing I'm floating no one wants would be harder to get into than welding a regular wall or hacking an airlock. I also suggested reinforcing the walls and protecting the airlocks in the dorms but I don't think people would go for that either.

the problem with the dorms is that they're in a fairly central location, clustered together, have things in them that people might want to rush roundstart (like the ian bedsheet) and are generally visible from busy hallways so people see the bolt lights and get curious which gives them plausible deniability for antag-checking - "I wasn't looking for antags, I saw a bolted door which was unusual and got curious / wanted to beat up ERPers / figured I'd see if they were AFK and had something to rob / whatever"

difficulty to investigate isn't the issue, as soon as people realise there's something to investigate they will get in by hook or by crook

[Cobby]

you can but it's a dumb stopgap measure for something not yet accounted for in code. there should be an ic way to go afk that doesn't stop antags or people with the right access from getting to you but makes it more difficult for random crew to interfere with your character and inventory. like the sleeper equivalent of a personal locker to replace the dorms beds

You’re telling me it’s a code issue where a room with a lock on it isn’t a safe way to go afk because admins will let you tear it down for just being used?

What happens when admins let you break this hypothetical new sleeper so you can check “just in case”? This is entirely an admin issue.

[Man_Shroom]

if this does become admin policy i will specifically always buy gear in dorms, and hide there, not behind a bolted door, but behind an admin's banhammer, to banbait any new players/competent players/any players into attacking me in the SAFE ZONE DORMS and thus getting banned, allowing my unrobust ass to safely gut their AFK corpse and scoring easy greentext. thanks admins very based.

[terranaut]

looks like dorms need to be removed

[kopoba]

looks like dorms need to be removed

no way! where catfembois gonna erp without cabine 4?

[trollbreeder]

looks like dorms need to be removed

no way! where catfembois gonna erp without cabine 4?

maint sex

[kopoba]

looks like dorms need to be removed

no way! where catfembois gonna erp without cabine 4?

maint sex

Yeh more *me to find pinus in the dark cold dirty maintenance.
romantic

[cacogen]

As part of Art I've been trying to move dorms to public spaces with only directional reinforced windows to make a Statement but I keep getting killed by syndicate operatives in Cabin 2 on DeltaStation. Please get my body

[Cobby]

can anyone explain what situation they believe they would find themselves in if the ruling was "Do not try to break into an area for no other reason but intent to check for antagonist gear" that would be considered "baiting" or whatever?

Like im confused where the notion that "dorms becomes a safe zone" from the ruling that no one has actually been able to formulate yet comes from.

[Armhulen]

That's why it's a bad idea yea

[SkeletalElite]

can anyone explain what situation they believe they would find themselves in if the ruling was "Do not try to break into an area for no other reason but intent to check for antagonist gear" that would be considered "baiting" or whatever?

Like im confused where the notion that "dorms becomes a safe zone" from the ruling that no one has actually been able to formulate yet comes from.

How to buy antag gear with no risk what so ever
1) Go in dorms and bolt door
2) Buy antag gear
3) If someone finds you ahelp them for "searching for antags for no reason"

Dorms is now a now a no touch safe zone

They are now banned or noted

[Cobby]

Well yeah fuck off lol? If going to dorms alone is what you’ve done to previously justify searches then fuck you?

I don’t mind checking for walls but like that’s different than literally breaking it down searching for gamer gear which you shouldn’t be doing without reason. IMPORTANT NOTE: THIS IS ALREADY AGAINST THE RULES AND NOT SPECIFIC TO DORMS

Yes, that creates a situation where you might need to search everywhere but dorms before you come to the conclusion that the thing you are looking for is in dorms. This applies to every location though, you shouldn’t be breaking stuff down under the hypothetical there MAY be antag gear on the other side I don’t see how that’s hard to understand or how that translates into X is now homebase

[SkeletalElite]

Well yeah fuck off lol? If going to dorms alone is what you’ve done to previously justify searches then fuck you?

I don’t mind checking for walls but like that’s different than literally breaking it down searching for gamer gear which you shouldn’t be doing without reason. IMPORTANT NOTE: THIS IS ALREADY AGAINST THE RULES AND NOT SPECIFIC TO DORMS

Yes, that creates a situation where you might need to search everywhere but dorms before you come to the conclusion that the thing you are looking for is in dorms. This applies to every location though, you shouldn’t be breaking stuff down under the hypothetical there MAY be antag gear on the other side I don’t see how that’s hard to understand or how that translates into X is now homebase

The problem is, there are reasons to break into rooms other than to search for antag gear and it's stupid if you get banned just because the antag who got fucked over by using probably the worst gear buying spot in the game happened to be the one behind the door

[RaveRadbury]

The problem is, there are reasons to break into rooms other than to search for antag gear and it's stupid if you get banned just because the antag who got fucked over by using probably the worst gear buying spot in the game happened to be the one behind the door

The other reasons being? I've had a few instances where someone has broken into the dorm I was in because they were desperate for a rev conversion... I can't think of reasons to break in that aren't antag related aside from "you're in crit and we tracked your body to here" or "the shuttle is coming and we're taking people out of dorms." Of course there is "We're looking for an established criminal and we think they might be in here" but aside from that I'm drawing blanks here, and more often than not those kinds of searches are happening later in the round (there are some pretty efficient greytiders though...)

Seriously, what reasons are there to break in to a bolted dorm aside from searching for an existing, known, criminal?

[Eskjjlj]

Seriously, what reasons are there to break in to a bolted dorm aside from searching for an existing, known, criminal?

Outing ERPers.

[ArcaneDefence]

Outing ERPers.

I think you're mistaken, that's what your ban appeal is for.

[Flatulent]

time to put cult runes in dorms rooms and ahelp when they get discovered
if you see cult runes in dorms you should walk away like nothing happened

[ArcaneDefence]

if you see cult runes in dorms you should walk away like nothing happened

This is just misrepresenting the argument, as seeing a rune is undeniably probable cause to investigate further.

[Flatulent]

and so is seeing a syndicate box

[RaveRadbury]

and so is seeing a syndicate box

You're skipping a step here, if you're walking through dorms and you glimpse a syndicate box or runes in a dorm that is quickly closing and bolting, yeah sure go for it. On the other hand, if you walk through dorms and just see a bolted airlock and think "hm... what could be in there, must be valids, time to breach" it doesn't really matter what's inside of it, you shouldn't be doing that.

[Flatulent]

so a permanently bolted dorms room is basically an admin-protected cult base now, right?
cultists do not need to ever unbolt/open the door, they have teleport runes.
why stop at dorms at all? make running into any cult bases in maint bannable as well
after all, why would you lurk in maint if not to catch valids?

[RaveRadbury]

so a permanently bolted dorms room is basically an admin-protected cult base now, right?
cultists do not need to ever unbolt/open the door, they have teleport runes.
why stop at dorms at all? make running into any cult bases in maint bannable as well
after all, why would you lurk in maint if not to catch valids?

You keep missing steps here. If you know there's a cult on board, that justifies opening bolted rooms, just like it justifies random searches. Actually, you could compare search justification to justifying breaking into a bolted dorm/toilet along similar lines. But if an airlock is bolted that normally isn't (especially in maint) that's really sus.

[Cobby]

Yes it’s antag home base, I will ban you if I see you venture to dorms for any reason, and I want it like that and so does all my other alts you call the admin team.

[Screemonster]

Yes it’s antag home base, I will ban you if I see you venture to dorms for any reason, and I want it like that and so does all my other alts you call the admin team.

honestly my solution given admin tools if I suspected someone of antag checking the dorms would be to aghost over the dorms at roundstart and bolt one of them at random then fill it with gorillas

[SkeletalElite]

The problem is, there are reasons to break into rooms other than to search for antag gear and it's stupid if you get banned just because the antag who got fucked over by using probably the worst gear buying spot in the game happened to be the one behind the door

The other reasons being? I've had a few instances where someone has broken into the dorm I was in because they were desperate for a rev conversion... I can't think of reasons to break in that aren't antag related aside from "you're in crit and we tracked your body to here" or "the shuttle is coming and we're taking people out of dorms." Of course there is "We're looking for an established criminal and we think they might be in here" but aside from that I'm drawing blanks here, and more often than not those kinds of searches are happening later in the round (there are some pretty efficient greytiders though...)

Seriously, what reasons are there to break in to a bolted dorm aside from searching for an existing, known, criminal?

I break into dorms to steal from AFK people who think dorms is a good AFK spot

[cacogen]

The problem is, there are reasons to break into rooms other than to search for antag gear and it's stupid if you get banned just because the antag who got fucked over by using probably the worst gear buying spot in the game happened to be the one behind the door

The other reasons being?

I was looking for a lavender bedsheet to complete my renovation of the cargo warehouse into the Citrus ERP dungeon and none of the sheets in the non-bolted dorms were lavender so I decided my only option was to cut the wall of a bolted one. There was a guy in there AFK in the bed and the bedsheet wasn't lavender so I rebuilt the wall and remembered you can dye bedsheets with crayons. I ended up with a lovely purple bedsheet for people who inadvertently used the mislabelled teleporter beacon and found themselves trapped in a romantic situation.

Every case for breaking into a dorm room can't be identified in advance and breaking into a bolted dorm room should probably only be considered an issue if you can prove it's an antag hunter doing it without probable cause, like a random search. Bolted airlocks draw attention. Pick a better place or accept the potential consequences.

[RaveRadbury]

ITT: Players tell on themselves

but seriously if there was an ahelp and I found out it was over bedsheets, that's like not really something that's going to get you noted or anything? It also sounds like that was one of the last steps of your process, it seems like a lot of the discourse here is about early breaching of bolted rooms?

Vulturing from AFK people is about as bad as stealing from people in surgery or cloning (back when we had it). Shame on you.

[Fishimun]

just hide better lmao, there's bathrooms, there's maint , there's cam cutting , there's SPACE. There's CHAPEL SECRET ROOM. There's LAVALAND PUBLIC MINING SHUTTLE, There's BAR BACKROOM, There's CHEF FRIDGE, There's TOXINS TARGET. There's ABANDONED ROBO. There's literally so many options that aren't dorms...
also, i agree that round start checking bolted doors is retarded but if there are antags outed and you are searching bolted rooms that's fair game.

[Flatulent]

If you know there's a cult on board, that justifies opening bolted rooms, just like it justifies random searches. Actually, you could compare search justification to justifying breaking into a bolted dorm/toilet along similar lines. But if an airlock is bolted that normally isn't (especially in maint) that's really sus.

Even if crew doesn’t know that cult is onboard, this shouldn’t let cultists operate with complete impunity. Them being allowed a base in fucking dorms is ridicilous. Cult bases are supposed to be well-hidden in maint/rarely used rooms with smart usage of hide runes spell and covering up tracks behind you so shitcurity doesn’t catch on. They aren’t supposed to be hidden in plain sight with their only protection being “if i enter this room 12 out of 16 admins currently orbiting me will instantly ban me and send a tomahawk cruise missle my way”.

If you aren’t even trying to be covert and you get discovered with a surplus crate/cult rune, it’s YOUR fault and not the discoverer’s for “searching in places they arent supposed to enter”.

There has to be a risk factor in everything you do on the station, it’s an inherent part of the game.

[Cobby]

There is a risk, but “I’m going to tear down everything for no reason to antag hunt” is not one of them.

[Fishimun]

officer walking through maint what will he do??, uh oh HE SEE BOLTED DOOR IN MAINT. HE FOUND MY CULT BASE NO!!!!!!!!!! AHELP!!! JANNIE HELP

[Ayy Lemoh]

I break into dorms to steal from AFK people who think dorms is a good AFK spot

please explain where to go AFK if dorms is bad for it then.

Yes, I know that if I wanted to REALLY go afk then I should put myself in a personally owned cabinet/locker otherwise I'll get fragged for no reason/looted however if the PLACE WITH FUCKING BEDS isn't a good afk spot then literally nowhere is a fucking good AFK spot besides some obscure bullshit ("hm, no one goes into brig interrogation chamber's camera room. perfect!")

[wesoda25]

I break into dorms to steal from AFK people who think dorms is a good AFK spot

cancer

[Misdoubtful]

Lets not forget that really important word here. Pre-emptive.

Google to the rescue:

Preemptive:

A preemptive action is made to keep some other action from being taken. Before you could be accused of eating the whole cake, you decided to make a preemptive apology, which was met with awkward silence.

Tired of being disturbed by your roommate's loud music, your preemptive strike was to crank up your favorite opera as soon as you arrived home. Unfortunately, he'd already made a preemptive strike of his own by borrowing your stereo. Don't confuse preemptive with peremptory, a word meaning “arrogant.” You don't have to be arrogant to make a preemptive move, just cautious.

[SkeletalElite]

I break into dorms to steal from AFK people who think dorms is a good AFK spot

please explain where to go AFK if dorms is bad for it then.

Yes, I know that if I wanted to REALLY go afk then I should put myself in a personally owned cabinet/locker otherwise I'll get fragged for no reason/looted however if the PLACE WITH FUCKING BEDS isn't a good afk spot then literally nowhere is a fucking good AFK spot besides some obscure bullshit ("hm, no one goes into brig interrogation chamber's camera room. perfect!")

When I AFK, It's usually in a locker in maint or obscure unused rooms.
Bolting yourself in a bathroom toilet is good enough as long as you cut the bolt light wire as well.

[Screemonster]

I break into dorms to steal from AFK people who think dorms is a good AFK spot

please explain where to go AFK if dorms is bad for it then.

Yes, I know that if I wanted to REALLY go afk then I should put myself in a personally owned cabinet/locker otherwise I'll get fragged for no reason/looted however if the PLACE WITH FUCKING BEDS isn't a good afk spot then literally nowhere is a fucking good AFK spot besides some obscure bullshit ("hm, no one goes into brig interrogation chamber's camera room. perfect!")

When I AFK, It's usually in a locker in maint or obscure unused rooms.
Bolting yourself in a bathroom toilet is good enough as long as you cut the bolt light wire as well.

have I not been saying throughout this thread that having more bathrooms around the station and hiding the bolt lights so that casual passers-by don't have a reason to get curious would be preferable to "there is only one easily-accessible cluster of lockable rooms on the station and it's instantly visible when they're in use to every yahoo that happens to stumble by"

[iamgoofball]

you guys do realize that fucking with AFK people is bannable, right

like, if someone's connection drops, that doesn't make them valid

if you reconnect to the game and find that you're dead and all your belongings in a looter's possession, ahelp it

[Gamarr]

Why does it have to be about antag hunting. Can't greybacks break into dorms just to rob sleeping people because they want to?

Now to the point about protecting the room you're using and worrying about being bugged: Learn the game.
Off the top of my head and not perfect solutions that the person can do.

1- PDA/paper at a camera to disable the bolt lights on a certain room.
2- Cut the AI control on said door either after #1 or after you yourself cut the bolt wires+bolt light.
3- Fucking take the remote out of the button.