Increase hours requirements for head roles.

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Indie-ana Jones
 
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Re: Increase hours requirements for head roles.

Postby Indie-ana Jones » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:03 pm #597641

Jaredfogle wrote:
oranges wrote:Frankly I don't even think this is a problem, I think the problem is that it's so horrible to actually play headroles that instead of all of our long time 600+ hour players competing for the roles, they're all in assistant slots while the 10 hour players are the only people actually naive enough to enable the headroles.



alas, like a large amount of other problems, it really comes down to no job content in the end


I don't see the issue, RD gets a research console, its fun and unique as all hell. Even better when you factor in experi-sci is mostly scanning chairs and toilets made of random materials, its everything you could ask for in an engaging experience.



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Re: Increase hours requirements for head roles.

Postby Jaredfogle » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:23 pm #597643

The first thing scientists do is create a research console, is there something I'm missing?
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Re: Increase hours requirements for head roles.

Postby SkeletalElite » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:51 pm #597645

Jaredfogle wrote:The first thing scientists do is create a research console, is there something I'm missing?


sarcasm

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Re: Increase hours requirements for head roles.

Postby Jaredfogle » Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:18 pm #597680

fair enough it was like 5am without sleep
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Re: Increase hours requirements for head roles.

Postby oranges » Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:09 am #597700

Jaredfogle wrote:
oranges wrote:Frankly I don't even think this is a problem, I think the problem is that it's so horrible to actually play headroles that instead of all of our long time 600+ hour players competing for the roles, they're all in assistant slots while the 10 hour players are the only people actually naive enough to enable the headroles.



alas, like a large amount of other problems, it really comes down to no job content in the end

I don't agree, because the assistant role has no job content at all, so it's clearly not even remotely related to job content and is instead entirely round structure, meta and admin rulings

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Re: Increase hours requirements for head roles.

Postby WineAllWine » Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:35 am #597717

oranges wrote:There's a lot more the admin team could do to make the experience of playing as a head actually improved, all this does is filter the already small list of people who want to play head roles down even further.


What would you suggest? (This sounds flippant but I'm genuinely asking)

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Re: Increase hours requirements for head roles.

Postby Farquaar » Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:13 am #597719

WineAllWine wrote:
oranges wrote:There's a lot more the admin team could do to make the experience of playing as a head actually improved, all this does is filter the already small list of people who want to play head roles down even further.


What would you suggest? (This sounds flippant but I'm genuinely asking)

Aside from the gamer gear, what's the main reason you'd play a command role? The ability to give orders that nobody listens to? Playing command is more responsibility and in many ways more restrictive of your playstyle, and many just don't want to deal with the hassle.

Outside Manuel, people seldom respect the chain of command unless you have the equipment and manpower to robust them when they refuse (in my experience). Good luck demoting anyone. Even if you succeed, there's a good chance they'll either suicide or dedicate their round to screwing with you.

People in general are more willing to play along in an MRP setting, which adds a fun incentive to playing command. I've ordered unstable crewmembers to receive psychiatric evaluations, conducted inspections and given orders as HoP (a famously toothless head), pulled rank on underlings, and (get this) even demoted people without them suiciding or greytiding me for the rest of the shift.

The above is one of the reasons I'm disappointed that this policy discussion never got addressed. When head roles have teeth (either by server rules, or server culture), playing a head role is a lot more enjoyable.

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Re: Increase hours requirements for head roles.

Postby Misdoubtful » Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:21 pm #597722

Farquaar wrote:The above is one of the reasons I'm disappointed that this policy discussion never got addressed. When head roles have teeth (either by server rules, or server culture), playing a head role is a lot more enjoyable.


I can't believe I missed this thread. Its an absolute no brainer.

There just isn't any protective incentive for people to actually want to play heads for anything other than the gear.
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Re: Increase hours requirements for head roles.

Postby Tlaltecuhtli » Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:58 pm #597724

only important head jobs are ce hos and qm as they spawn with good gear rest are noob bait like cmo and rd
captain isnt even a real head its just assistant+++

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Re: Increase hours requirements for head roles.

Postby Armhulen » Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:27 pm #597729

I wanna code a dock pay feature for heads
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Re: Increase hours requirements for head roles.

Postby oranges » Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:52 pm #597731

WineAllWine wrote:
oranges wrote:There's a lot more the admin team could do to make the experience of playing as a head actually improved, all this does is filter the already small list of people who want to play head roles down even further.


What would you suggest? (This sounds flippant but I'm genuinely asking)

enforce the chain of command ooc as well as IC so the heads don't have to rely on an often busy or inadequate security team to do it.

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Re: Increase hours requirements for head roles.

Postby Jaredfogle » Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:13 pm #597732

Armhulen wrote:I wanna code a dock pay feature for heads

it's already a smite also NO peanut in the policy discussion thread--THANK YOU! and God bless
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Re: Increase hours requirements for head roles.

Postby Armhulen » Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:40 pm #597733

Jaredfogle wrote:
Armhulen wrote:I wanna code a dock pay feature for heads

it's already a smite also NO peanut in the policy discussion thread--THANK YOU! and God bless

No, really though. Big part of bringing old players back to head roles is giving them the ability to deal with people that are supposed to be working under them
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Re: Increase hours requirements for head roles.

Postby TheFinalPotato » Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:48 am #597736

Armhulen wrote:I wanna code a dock pay feature for heads

This would require paychecks
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Re: Increase hours requirements for head roles.

Postby Farquaar » Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:14 pm #597749

TheFinalPotato wrote:
Armhulen wrote:I wanna code a dock pay feature for heads

This would require paychecks

It could:
1. Just be an RP punishment
2. Actually delete money out of their bank account
The latter sounds abusable, but head roles ready have more scrutiny than the average doofus, so why not? :v)

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Re: Increase hours requirements for head roles.

Postby Jaredfogle » Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:52 pm #597752

Armhulen wrote:
Jaredfogle wrote:
Armhulen wrote:I wanna code a dock pay feature for heads

it's already a smite also NO peanut in the policy discussion thread--THANK YOU! and God bless

No, really though. Big part of bringing old players back to head roles is giving them the ability to deal with people that are supposed to be working under them

oooh you mean FROM heads. carry on
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Re: Increase hours requirements for head roles.

Postby Kel » Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:20 pm #597765

honestly bad heads dont even impact anything except by taking the slot and the universally unnecessary for anything (except the CE's PDA server password) bonus tools that they get. everyone disrespects heads at their leisure, sometimes as an entire gamemode. ironically a weak player being head of staff has the highest impact when you should be doing your job the least - during a revolution, too bad knowledge of your job means absolutely nothing in this scenario. perhaps 500h in sec should be considered so that we can be assured you have acquired a survival instinct and a solid grasp of combat... oh wait, thats retarded. just like this suggestion.
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Re: Increase hours requirements for head roles.

Postby Armhulen » Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:29 pm #597766

Kel wrote:honestly bad heads dont even impact anything.


This is also what drives away good players, fyi. If you don't matter when you flop you also don't matter when you're good, and a leadership role with no leadership isn't fun.
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Re: Increase hours requirements for head roles.

Postby Kel » Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:38 pm #597767

Armhulen wrote:
Kel wrote:honestly bad heads dont even impact anything.


This is also what drives away good players, fyi. If you don't matter when you flop you also don't matter when you're good, and a leadership role with no leadership isn't fun.


it is a necessary evil. as long as heads of staff are not literally forced every round in every department, having a single guy REQUIRED for the department to function like how the RD console tried to do results in weird job marooning where you need outside intervention to do your own job. HoP is the living embodiment of this, but luckily he isnt critical for station function. making heads of staff stuff like doctor+ is just the only realistic way to go about it.

also lets be real most people dont play heads of staff because they dont want to get bitched out by everyone for trying to exert authority and get lynched every few rounds by a revolution.
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Re: Increase hours requirements for head roles.

Postby Armhulen » Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:47 pm #597769

Kel wrote:
Armhulen wrote:
Kel wrote:honestly bad heads dont even impact anything.


This is also what drives away good players, fyi. If you don't matter when you flop you also don't matter when you're good, and a leadership role with no leadership isn't fun.


it is a necessary evil. as long as heads of staff are not literally forced every round in every department, having a single guy REQUIRED for the department to function like how the RD console tried to do results in weird job marooning where you need outside intervention to do your own job. HoP is the living embodiment of this, but luckily he isnt critical for station function. making heads of staff stuff like doctor+ is just the only realistic way to go about it.

also lets be real most people dont play heads of staff because they dont want to get bitched out by everyone for trying to exert authority and get lynched every few rounds by a revolution.

...Which probably comes back to oranges suggesting more admin intervention and respect for chain of command and heads having more power to punish and reward people under them
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Re: Increase hours requirements for head roles.

Postby Omega_DarkPotato » Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:13 pm #597888

heads having more power to punish those under them needs admins on to really watch it
sybil still has moments where we just don't have any staff on, at all.
it's improved a lot since ye olden days of "6 hours with not a single jannie on" back when we were the lowpop and bagil was highpop, but I still think that giving heads ability to fuck over members of their department without it being something that you *need* a staff member on to do sounds like a sure-fire way for shit to hit the fan the moment a jannie's not on.


hehe fucking catgirl md?????? not in my dept lol
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Re: Increase hours requirements for head roles.

Postby cacogen » Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:00 am #598157

oranges wrote:
Jaredfogle wrote:
oranges wrote:Frankly I don't even think this is a problem, I think the problem is that it's so horrible to actually play headroles that instead of all of our long time 600+ hour players competing for the roles, they're all in assistant slots while the 10 hour players are the only people actually naive enough to enable the headroles.



alas, like a large amount of other problems, it really comes down to no job content in the end

I don't agree, because the assistant role has no job content at all, so it's clearly not even remotely related to job content and is instead entirely round structure, meta and admin rulings

if you're head there's responsibility, ic and ooc expectations and you're a target so it's more demanding even if a job like hop is just all-access assistant most of the time (which is why it's such a good one!)
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Re: Increase hours requirements for head roles.

Postby kieth4 » Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:36 pm #598733

Add whitelists to roles like HoS and Captain. Thanks.

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Re: Increase hours requirements for head roles.

Postby wesoda25 » Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:21 am #598746

Ew, that’s even worse than increasing hours required
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Re: Increase hours requirements for head roles.

Postby TheFinalPotato » Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:37 am #598749

The admin team wouldn't be able to whitelist people often enough
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Re: Increase hours requirements for head roles.

Postby saprasam » Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:49 am #598752

kieth4 wrote:Add whitelists to roles like HoS and Captain. Thanks.

good bait
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Re: Increase hours requirements for head roles.

Postby kieth4 » Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:59 am #598758

TheFinalPotato wrote:The admin team wouldn't be able to whitelist people often enough


there aren't many people who play these roles it's not like they'll have a queue of 100000

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Re: Increase hours requirements for head roles.

Postby cacogen » Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:51 am #598904

We don't take the game seriously enough to require an admin whitelist for roles and that's a good thing
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Re: Increase hours requirements for head roles.

Postby PKPenguin321 » Sat May 01, 2021 1:07 am #599163

kieth4 wrote:Add whitelists to roles like HoS and Captain. Thanks.

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Re: Increase hours requirements for head roles.

Postby mindstormy » Mon May 03, 2021 8:57 pm #599327

I agree with the other posters here. Currently playing a head role is just straight up not fun. We should not discourage players from playing head roles by increasing the hours needed to play the roles. We need to find ways to make playing these roles not terrible. I also think white listing these roles is an even worse idea. I would rather play with a completely incompetent head of staff in charge of my department than no head at all. If we increase the hours needed for these roles we will end up in one of two situations. 1) only try hard losers play head roles and we turn into a MRP / HRP server or worse Manuel or 2) no one plays head roles. Hence I vote no on increasing hours played for head roles.

Having said that, I do think that players playing head roles should be held to a higher standard of not being an complete idiot in game. This is additional admin burden, but it is the reason we are here. This is where some bwoinking to give advice and guide these players could be helpful and encourage players to not be idiots, at least more helpful than straight up banning them from the role if they are receptive to the advice.

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Re: Increase hours requirements for head roles.

Postby Mailbox » Sun May 09, 2021 1:42 pm #599784

Shit heads will be shit heads no matter how many hours they get. It's rare that a head of staff incompetence is the doom of the station.

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