/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

About this policy

Increase the hour requirements for the following roles : Captain, Head of Personnel, Head of Security, Chief Medical Officer, Research Director, Chief Engineer and AI.

Why this would be good for the game

Head roles are difficult. They offer a lot more possibilities, access, gear and authority than normal roles, but they come with a huge burden : responsabilities. It should be expected that head roles are competent in their departments, and overall knowledgeable about the various basic game mechanics. Too often, I see heads that don't fit these criterias, and that just pick the role for the added gear/access without trying to do their job as command, or failing at it and be a detriment to the department.

When I was a new player, I had unlocked some head roles BEFORE I was even proficient with the game's controls and basic mechanics, and I don't think that should be the case. We should enforce a longer learning period for new players before they can be command. This also serves as a period during which you can familiarize yourself with the rules, which would lead to a decrease in command grief/fuck-ups. A recent incident comes to mind, where a player with very low hours tried to play Captain as soon as they unlocked it, and started soft griefing by selling sec lockers and the armoury because they are not familiar with or even used to what a Head should act like.

As for AI, 20 hours is way too little to become used to silicon policy. I've seen a lot of new AI players fuck that up recently, and I think they would benefit from a longer learning period.

The actual changes

Current values :

You need fifteen hours in the corresponding department to play a job. That means you can be CE with fifteen hours in engineering. Captain only needs fifteen hours as any command role. AI needs fifteen hours as Silicon.

On a side note, you only need five hours as crew to unlock all sec jobs (Warden, Detective, SecOfficer). You need two hours as crew to unlock Cyborg. You need one hours as crew to unlock all research jobs.

I think it should be increased to at least fourty or fifty hours for command roles.

Thank you for your time reading this, I look forward to seeing everyone's opinion on this.

oranges wrote:Frankly I don't even think this is a problem, I think the problem is that it's so horrible to actually play headroles that instead of all of our long time 600+ hour players competing for the roles, they're all in assistant slots while the 10 hour players are the only people actually naive enough to enable the headroles.

There's a lot more the admin team could do to make the experience of playing as a head actually improved, all this does is filter the already small list of people who want to play head roles down even further.

Yeah I'd rather see something that would encourage people to WANT to play head roles and WANT to put effort into playing them.

oranges wrote:Frankly I don't even think this is a problem, I think the problem is that it's so horrible to actually play headroles that instead of all of our long time 600+ hour players competing for the roles, they're all in assistant slots while the 10 hour players are the only people actually naive enough to enable the headroles.

alas, like a large amount of other problems, it really comes down to no job content in the end

Jaredfogle wrote:

oranges wrote:Frankly I don't even think this is a problem, I think the problem is that it's so horrible to actually play headroles that instead of all of our long time 600+ hour players competing for the roles, they're all in assistant slots while the 10 hour players are the only people actually naive enough to enable the headroles.

alas, like a large amount of other problems, it really comes down to no job content in the end

I don't see the issue, RD gets a research console, its fun and unique as all hell. Even better when you factor in experi-sci is mostly scanning chairs and toilets made of random materials, its everything you could ask for in an engaging experience.

The first thing scientists do is create a research console, is there something I'm missing?

Jaredfogle wrote:The first thing scientists do is create a research console, is there something I'm missing?

sarcasm

fair enough it was like 5am without sleep

Jaredfogle wrote:

oranges wrote:Frankly I don't even think this is a problem, I think the problem is that it's so horrible to actually play headroles that instead of all of our long time 600+ hour players competing for the roles, they're all in assistant slots while the 10 hour players are the only people actually naive enough to enable the headroles.

alas, like a large amount of other problems, it really comes down to no job content in the end

I don't agree, because the assistant role has no job content at all, so it's clearly not even remotely related to job content and is instead entirely round structure, meta and admin rulings

oranges wrote: There's a lot more the admin team could do to make the experience of playing as a head actually improved, all this does is filter the already small list of people who want to play head roles down even further.

What would you suggest? (This sounds flippant but I'm genuinely asking)

WineAllWine wrote:

oranges wrote: There's a lot more the admin team could do to make the experience of playing as a head actually improved, all this does is filter the already small list of people who want to play head roles down even further.

What would you suggest? (This sounds flippant but I'm genuinely asking)

Aside from the gamer gear, what's the main reason you'd play a command role? The ability to give orders that nobody listens to? Playing command is more responsibility and in many ways more restrictive of your playstyle, and many just don't want to deal with the hassle.

Outside Manuel, people seldom respect the chain of command unless you have the equipment and manpower to robust them when they refuse (in my experience). Good luck demoting anyone. Even if you succeed, there's a good chance they'll either suicide or dedicate their round to screwing with you.

People in general are more willing to play along in an MRP setting, which adds a fun incentive to playing command. I've ordered unstable crewmembers to receive psychiatric evaluations, conducted inspections and given orders as HoP (a famously toothless head), pulled rank on underlings, and (get this) even demoted people without them suiciding or greytiding me for the rest of the shift.

The above is one of the reasons I'm disappointed that this policy discussion never got addressed. When head roles have teeth (either by server rules, or server culture), playing a head role is a lot more enjoyable.

Farquaar wrote:The above is one of the reasons I'm disappointed that this policy discussion never got addressed. When head roles have teeth (either by server rules, or server culture), playing a head role is a lot more enjoyable.

I can't believe I missed this thread. Its an absolute no brainer.

There just isn't any protective incentive for people to actually want to play heads for anything other than the gear.

only important head jobs are ce hos and qm as they spawn with good gear rest are noob bait like cmo and rd
captain isnt even a real head its just assistant+++

I wanna code a dock pay feature for heads

WineAllWine wrote:

oranges wrote: There's a lot more the admin team could do to make the experience of playing as a head actually improved, all this does is filter the already small list of people who want to play head roles down even further.

What would you suggest? (This sounds flippant but I'm genuinely asking)

enforce the chain of command ooc as well as IC so the heads don't have to rely on an often busy or inadequate security team to do it.

Armhulen wrote:I wanna code a dock pay feature for heads

it's already a smite also NO peanut in the policy discussion thread--THANK YOU! and God bless

Jaredfogle wrote:

Armhulen wrote:I wanna code a dock pay feature for heads

it's already a smite also NO peanut in the policy discussion thread--THANK YOU! and God bless

No, really though. Big part of bringing old players back to head roles is giving them the ability to deal with people that are supposed to be working under them

Armhulen wrote:I wanna code a dock pay feature for heads

This would require paychecks

TheFinalPotato wrote:

Armhulen wrote:I wanna code a dock pay feature for heads

This would require paychecks

It could:
1. Just be an RP punishment
2. Actually delete money out of their bank account
The latter sounds abusable, but head roles ready have more scrutiny than the average doofus, so why not? :v)

Armhulen wrote:

Jaredfogle wrote:

Armhulen wrote:I wanna code a dock pay feature for heads

it's already a smite also NO peanut in the policy discussion thread--THANK YOU! and God bless

No, really though. Big part of bringing old players back to head roles is giving them the ability to deal with people that are supposed to be working under them

oooh you mean FROM heads. carry on

honestly bad heads dont even impact anything except by taking the slot and the universally unnecessary for anything (except the CE's PDA server password) bonus tools that they get. everyone disrespects heads at their leisure, sometimes as an entire gamemode. ironically a weak player being head of staff has the highest impact when you should be doing your job the least - during a revolution, too bad knowledge of your job means absolutely nothing in this scenario. perhaps 500h in sec should be considered so that we can be assured you have acquired a survival instinct and a solid grasp of combat... oh wait, thats retarded. just like this suggestion.

Kel wrote:honestly bad heads dont even impact anything.

This is also what drives away good players, fyi. If you don't matter when you flop you also don't matter when you're good, and a leadership role with no leadership isn't fun.

Armhulen wrote:

Kel wrote:honestly bad heads dont even impact anything.

This is also what drives away good players, fyi. If you don't matter when you flop you also don't matter when you're good, and a leadership role with no leadership isn't fun.

it is a necessary evil. as long as heads of staff are not literally forced every round in every department, having a single guy REQUIRED for the department to function like how the RD console tried to do results in weird job marooning where you need outside intervention to do your own job. HoP is the living embodiment of this, but luckily he isnt critical for station function. making heads of staff stuff like doctor+ is just the only realistic way to go about it.

also lets be real most people dont play heads of staff because they dont want to get bitched out by everyone for trying to exert authority and get lynched every few rounds by a revolution.

Kel wrote:

Armhulen wrote:

Kel wrote:honestly bad heads dont even impact anything.

This is also what drives away good players, fyi. If you don't matter when you flop you also don't matter when you're good, and a leadership role with no leadership isn't fun.

it is a necessary evil. as long as heads of staff are not literally forced every round in every department, having a single guy REQUIRED for the department to function like how the RD console tried to do results in weird job marooning where you need outside intervention to do your own job. HoP is the living embodiment of this, but luckily he isnt critical for station function. making heads of staff stuff like doctor+ is just the only realistic way to go about it.

also lets be real most people dont play heads of staff because they dont want to get bitched out by everyone for trying to exert authority and get lynched every few rounds by a revolution.

...Which probably comes back to oranges suggesting more admin intervention and respect for chain of command and heads having more power to punish and reward people under them

heads having more power to punish those under them needs admins on to really watch it
sybil still has moments where we just don't have any staff on, at all.
it's improved a lot since ye olden days of "6 hours with not a single jannie on" back when we were the lowpop and bagil was highpop, but I still think that giving heads ability to fuck over members of their department without it being something that you *need* a staff member on to do sounds like a sure-fire way for shit to hit the fan the moment a jannie's not on.


hehe fucking catgirl md?????? not in my dept lol
-another person rping the most unique and interesting gimmick of racism
(fyi I'm a moth player not a catgirl player I'm not biased or pro-catgirl)

oranges wrote:

Jaredfogle wrote:

oranges wrote:Frankly I don't even think this is a problem, I think the problem is that it's so horrible to actually play headroles that instead of all of our long time 600+ hour players competing for the roles, they're all in assistant slots while the 10 hour players are the only people actually naive enough to enable the headroles.

alas, like a large amount of other problems, it really comes down to no job content in the end

I don't agree, because the assistant role has no job content at all, so it's clearly not even remotely related to job content and is instead entirely round structure, meta and admin rulings

if you're head there's responsibility, ic and ooc expectations and you're a target so it's more demanding even if a job like hop is just all-access assistant most of the time (which is why it's such a good one!)

Add whitelists to roles like HoS and Captain. Thanks.

Ew, that’s even worse than increasing hours required

The admin team wouldn't be able to whitelist people often enough

kieth4 wrote:Add whitelists to roles like HoS and Captain. Thanks.

good bait

TheFinalPotato wrote:The admin team wouldn't be able to whitelist people often enough

there aren't many people who play these roles it's not like they'll have a queue of 100000

We don't take the game seriously enough to require an admin whitelist for roles and that's a good thing

kieth4 wrote:Add whitelists to roles like HoS and Captain. Thanks.

time is a flat circle

I agree with the other posters here. Currently playing a head role is just straight up not fun. We should not discourage players from playing head roles by increasing the hours needed to play the roles. We need to find ways to make playing these roles not terrible. I also think white listing these roles is an even worse idea. I would rather play with a completely incompetent head of staff in charge of my department than no head at all. If we increase the hours needed for these roles we will end up in one of two situations. 1) only try hard losers play head roles and we turn into a MRP / HRP server or worse Manuel or 2) no one plays head roles. Hence I vote no on increasing hours played for head roles.

Having said that, I do think that players playing head roles should be held to a higher standard of not being an complete idiot in game. This is additional admin burden, but it is the reason we are here. This is where some bwoinking to give advice and guide these players could be helpful and encourage players to not be idiots, at least more helpful than straight up banning them from the role if they are receptive to the advice.

Shit heads will be shit heads no matter how many hours they get. It's rare that a head of staff incompetence is the doom of the station.