Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

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The Wrench
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Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by The Wrench » #602984

So During round 164141 on Sybil LRP I was doing a capitalist captain gimmick
Normal stuff, nothing too far out there. Getting into character, things like that. A quarter through the round I was repeatedly bad luck cursed and bwoinked by an administrator for the Gimmick I was running. What I did was I uploaded the Corporate lawset to the AI, and I bought the luxury shuttle and told the crew to make those credits. I also offered to sell the nuclear arms disk for whoever could get ahold of an obscene amount of credits. Nothing more, and nothing less.

The logs if those are relevant to the situation (The administrator wished to remain anonymous but I can make the full thread public if that's needed)
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The question I have now is, what is acceptable for a captain-level gimmick, is the captain as the head of heads of staff allowed to lead the station into stupid and *Majority* of the time, pointless adventures if no one gets harmed? More importantly, Does the ruling stated here Still apply?
Last edited by The Wrench on Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Jonathan Gupta wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:32 pm all you godamn do is whine and complain come up with ideas, stop bitching for christs sake.
Flatulent wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:02 am You and anyone who supports the rule 3 as described by mso is simply put not an lrp player
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by The Wrench » #602986

Also, the administrator did nothing wrong by contacting me, and I'm glad they did. Please do not send them any hate. They seem like they genuinely mean the best and that they care about this silly space game as much as I do.
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Jonathan Gupta wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:32 pm all you godamn do is whine and complain come up with ideas, stop bitching for christs sake.
Flatulent wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:02 am You and anyone who supports the rule 3 as described by mso is simply put not an lrp player
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by Cobby » #602989

The nuclear disk bit is kinda cringe considering people are allowed to know the mechanics of the disk and it’s only use outside of admins is strictly antag-based but seems fine otherwise
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by Agux909 » #603051

If these restrictions apply to captains then what's even the point of playing captain? Memes aside, captains certainly aren't supposed to be NPCs that walk around passively showing fluff authority and are only useful when a situation demands it (opening secure areas, authorizing executions, etc.)

Have in mind ALL gimmicks will inevitably end up being annoying to some (including admins), but if you're THE CAPTAIN and aren't allowed to play your role in a way that affects the station in some aspect then again, what's even the point of there being a captain? Isn't some control over the fate of the station one of the main pulls for the role? It's the role with suposedly the most power and standards after all.

I can speak for myself that I find it refreshing when heads of staff attempt to grab the wheel, get creative, and do round changing stuff instead of being just a +role in their respective depts. Stuff being repetitive or a bad gimmick is purely subjective unless it's a blatant and obvious attempt at grief.

There was a round I played in which a CMO decided to make medbay capitalist and my character, hating capitalism, started rebelling and riling up people against them. It ended up in a conflict between sympathizers of each side, CMO having to fully fortify medbay and doctors taking all the money from unconscious patients because noone wanted to pay them a single cent.

Yes to some this can definitely result annoying, but it's realistically impossible to please everyone. This gimmick was fun for me even if my in-game character was opposed to it, and gave a lot of non-antag conflict which really enriched my experience that round. Why shouldn't captain be allowed to have the same freedom on a major scale?

The admin in question didn't like the gimmick and that's alright, but this isn't something that should be bwoinked unless the one doing it was going out of their way solely with the purpose of ruining the round for others, for which there are way easier and less creative methods to do so.

As for stuff toeing the line or collateral damage, things can be and have been solved icly in the past. Like one time a CE let their engineers build a SM on the hallways and ended up being lynched for it.
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by cSeal » #603084

Agux909 wrote: There was a round I played in which a CMO decided to make medbay capitalist and my character, hating capitalism, started rebelling and riling up people against them. It ended up in a conflict between sympathizers of each side, CMO having to fully fortify medbay and doctors taking all the money from unconscious patients because noone wanted to pay them a single cent.
Fairly certain i remember this round- is this the one where medbay went out of its way to lynch several botanists who were making healing chems, because no one wanted to interact with medbay and deal with being looted because "haha capitalism"?
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by Agux909 » #603085

cSeal wrote:
Agux909 wrote: There was a round I played in which a CMO decided to make medbay capitalist and my character, hating capitalism, started rebelling and riling up people against them. It ended up in a conflict between sympathizers of each side, CMO having to fully fortify medbay and doctors taking all the money from unconscious patients because noone wanted to pay them a single cent.
Fairly certain i remember this round- is this the one where medbay went out of its way to lynch several botanists who were making healing chems, because no one wanted to interact with medbay and deal with being looted because "haha capitalism"?
I think so (it was delta btw). And they didn't "go out of their way" since it was kind of a one-upmanship. I was helping botany and we moved everything to medbay entrance where we kept taunting them, I kept deconstructing walls and airlocks with a RCD, etc, and it ended up escalating. Noone was round-removed as far as I can remember. If anyone died in the confrontations they were revived shortly thereafter (I was), but found themselves poor after being brought back. It was good chaotic non-antag fun.
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by cSeal » #603086

Agux909 wrote: I think so (it was delta btw). And they didn't "go out of their way" since it was kind of a one-upmanship. I was helping botany and we moved everything to medbay entrance where we kept taunting them, I kept deconstructing walls and airlocks with a RCD, etc, and it ended up escalating. Noone was round-removed as far as I can remember. If anyone died in the confrontations they were revived shortly thereafter (I was), but found themselves poor after being brought back. It was good chaotic non-antag fun.
If it is the same round, i can assure you that even if you didn't have an issue with it, the others that were killed did, and that's the issue- its hard to get a proper feel for how many people are enjoying things at the moment when you're just playing, but as someone whos admin'd and observed during these capitalism gimmicks I feel pretty confident in saying the majority of people who cared at all thought that it sucked, and complained. Call me cynical, but all I see when something like this crops up is people using a "gimmick" to justify being an asshole- no one likes being looted while they're dead or denied treatment when they dont have money, and that's not even the best way to get cash as an md, so why the fuck are you doing it other than to incite conflict and be an asshole? I'm perfectly fine with gimmicks as long as its in good faith, and building an sm in the hallway or not healing people when they don't pay definitely is not.
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by The Wrench » #603099

cSeal wrote:
Agux909 wrote: I think so (it was delta btw). And they didn't "go out of their way" since it was kind of a one-upmanship. I was helping botany and we moved everything to medbay entrance where we kept taunting them, I kept deconstructing walls and airlocks with a RCD, etc, and it ended up escalating. Noone was round-removed as far as I can remember. If anyone died in the confrontations they were revived shortly thereafter (I was), but found themselves poor after being brought back. It was good chaotic non-antag fun.
If it is the same round, i can assure you that even if you didn't have an issue with it, the others that were killed did, and that's the issue- its hard to get a proper feel for how many people are enjoying things at the moment when you're just playing, but as someone whos admin'd and observed during these capitalism gimmicks I feel pretty confident in saying the majority of people who cared at all thought that it sucked, and complained. Call me cynical, but all I see when something like this crops up is people using a "gimmick" to justify being an asshole- no one likes being looted while they're dead or denied treatment when they dont have money, and that's not even the best way to get cash as an md, so why the fuck are you doing it other than to incite conflict and be an asshole? I'm perfectly fine with gimmicks as long as its in good faith, and building an sm in the hallway or not healing people when they don't pay definitely is not.
Well, That's the point. We're in a primary RP focused game, and sometimes, people RP as bad people and should be dealt with Ickly.
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As a berniebro *Ghasp
I find the concept of being forced to sell your house or go into massive amounts of debt for medical treatment extremely distasteful, but that's how it works in this hell world of a real world, so why do we have to pretend to be better people or that human nature has changed between right now and the 2500s? Even so, as long as no one is round removed I don't see a problem with it. You said yourself that cargo/botany started mass producing healing chemicals in order to compete with capitalist medbay, and this is the kind of interactions I love to see as a player, especially on LRP

*Edited to add the point, blatantly using your ability or rank to round remove people is not a fun gimmick (Ie captain using his gamer gear to round remove antagonists before they can antagonize/Debraining those who are unable to pay for medical service) and there are avenues that can be taken to keep things non violent. For example, we have a surprisingly robust fines system through security so why not use that to simulate medical bills, or set up a pay wall. Both ways that don't involve "Looting corpses".

**Edited again to add another point that's more tangential but doesn't deserve its own post, I'd argue that validhunting culture is a much much much bigger issue than capitalist medbay. These greys and sometimes redsuits will use their rank to permanently deny you the right to play in the rest of the round. I'm just saying, if an assistant is legally allowed to Scream "Muh valids" and toolbox anyone who they *******THINK******* Roled the bad men role(often causing more damage than the antagonist themselves) , I don't see the harm in medbay charging for service.
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Jonathan Gupta wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:32 pm all you godamn do is whine and complain come up with ideas, stop bitching for christs sake.
Flatulent wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:02 am You and anyone who supports the rule 3 as described by mso is simply put not an lrp player
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by Agux909 » #603102

Adam Klein wrote:
Well, That's the point. We're in a primary RP focused game, and sometimes, people RP as bad people and should be dealt with Ickly.
NSFW:
As a berniebro *Ghasp
I find the concept of being forced to sell your house or go into massive amounts of debt for medical treatment extremely distasteful, but that's how it works in this hell world of a real world, so why do we have to pretend to be better people or that human nature has changed between right now and the 2500s? Even so, as long as no one is round removed I don't see a problem with it. You said yourself that cargo/botany started mass producing healing chemicals in order to compete with capitalist medbay, and this is the kind of interactions I love to see as a player, especially on LRP
Was writing a response but you've nailed the point perfectly. MSO and many others are insisting that the servers are moving towards a higher roleplay standard, with Manuel being the current prototype model to pick up things from (I believe the current state isn't completely ideal). Not allowing these kind of scenarios to organically happen goes against the spirit of this game. Basically, doing so is UNFUN BEHAVIOR.
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by Omega_DarkPotato » #603143

Agux909 wrote:
Adam Klein wrote:
Well, That's the point. We're in a primary RP focused game, and sometimes, people RP as bad people and should be dealt with Ickly.
NSFW:
As a berniebro *Ghasp
I find the concept of being forced to sell your house or go into massive amounts of debt for medical treatment extremely distasteful, but that's how it works in this hell world of a real world, so why do we have to pretend to be better people or that human nature has changed between right now and the 2500s? Even so, as long as no one is round removed I don't see a problem with it. You said yourself that cargo/botany started mass producing healing chemicals in order to compete with capitalist medbay, and this is the kind of interactions I love to see as a player, especially on LRP
Was writing a response but you've nailed the point perfectly. MSO and many others are insisting that the servers are moving towards a higher roleplay standard, with Manuel being the current prototype model to pick up things from (I believe the current state isn't completely ideal). Not allowing these kind of scenarios to organically happen goes against the spirit of this game. Basically, doing so is UNFUN BEHAVIOR.
cool gimmick and all but I just wanted to heal people that round and being shoved around by a CMO who was trying to force me to charge people for healing is super fucking cringe.
I play MD to help people and jackasses who think that it's fun to fuck with that annoy me to no end

good gimmicks are good and I don't think that clamping down on them is a good take but forcing gimmicks that encourage non-antagonist crew to fight or antagonize other non-antagonist crew is not a "good gimmick".

edit: added not in that last line, holy fuck, don't post at 2 am
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by cSeal » #603152

Adam Klein wrote: Well, That's the point. We're in a primary RP focused game, and sometimes, people RP as bad people and should be dealt with Ickly.
NSFW:
As a berniebro *Ghasp
I find the concept of being forced to sell your house or go into massive amounts of debt for medical treatment extremely distasteful, but that's how it works in this hell world of a real world, so why do we have to pretend to be better people or that human nature has changed between right now and the 2500s? Even so, as long as no one is round removed I don't see a problem with it.
RP=/= realism, this is a game where you can make lemons explode like grenades, using "muh realism" as an excuse for doing something dickish is ridiculous, especially since
We're all here to have a good time, supposedly.


At the end of the day, admins are allowed and definitely should step in if they see a gimmick that they think negatively impacts the round or is done in bad faith, but that's going to be on a case by case basis. I'm not saying don't do gimmicks, I'm saying if an admin asks you to not do it they probably have a good reason, and they're not just doing it to steal all your freedom away or something
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by BeeSting12 » #603172

Captains should be allowed to run gimmicks as long as it's original, not outright griefing, and can be solved ICly if it comes down to it. If it's funny/not overdone then I'd allow it. Problem is 90% of gimmicks are overdone. Race war memers should be gibbed. If someone gets excessive with a single gimmick, particularly one that starts to border into rule 1 violation territory, they should be told to cut it out.

I didn't really see anything wrong with your gimmick, but based on the first image in the logs (I'm too lazy to click on each picture, post a link to them lmao), it seems like you've overdone this particular gimmick. I do disagree with the part adminanon said with antags and admins being the only ones allowed to be "dungeonmasters". I think the captain is also a good position to use for that as long as it's creative. It sounds like you've overdone the same gimmick too many times.
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by Shadowflame909 » #603176

Doesn't seem like a gimmick issue, more of a repeated gimmick issue.

A player who spawns in as an assistant, goes into engineering and steals insuls once probably will be ignored, the admins have better things to do.

Now the player who does this every single round is most definitely going to be banned/noted.

Don't Overdue junk because you literally become a confirmed hassle/problem in the round instead of an innocent bystander to antagonistic behavior.
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by cacogen » #603177

I dunno about LRP but on MRP based on prior precedent if security takes exception to what the acting captain is doing they're allowed to arrest and demote them to assistant while the acting HoS (a discount Jane-Luc Price) promotes themselves to acting captain. Bonus points if it can be retroactively excused by pointing out that it's the acting captain, not the real captain, despite it being a role thrust upon the player by the game itself. Which makes it seem like the authority granted to the captain is at the whim of the admins online at the time. Do not anger the metafriends in security on Manuel by having fun if you don't want an admin-backed coup on your hands.
Adam Klein wrote:I find the concept of being forced to sell your house or go into massive amounts of debt for medical treatment extremely distasteful, but that's how it works in this hell world of a real world, so why do we have to pretend to be better people or that human nature has changed between right now and the 2500s?

Life (and by extension labour) has clearly gotten signficantly cheaper by that point.
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by XivilaiAnaxes » #603193

"You can't change AI laws roundstart as captain because it ruins their round"

that's cringe honestly
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by sinfulbliss » #603201

Holy shit there's so much here.
Agux909 wrote:snip
First I remember a round where medbay charged for service on Manuel, they set up a little table outside medbay barring entry unless you could give em cash. I thought it was cringe but I liked it because it was unique and interesting. Rounds need SPICING up, the same shit every time is boring. Even if it results in angry people it creates a unique round that everyone will remember and look back on, good experience or bad. Better than just a flat line of "meh" throughout the rounds.

Second I remember a round where the CMO Bella Rogue (yes this time she was rogue) denied medical help to sec cause medbay became a battleground with valids for a bit. I had to talk to them and diplomatically convince them to let sec back into medbay (previously docs would attack us full aggro when we entered).
This was a great round and the REASON I remember it is because it was UNIQUE, speaking as part of the group that was "negatively impacted." Losing is a part of the game and sometimes it's a FUN part of the game if you are mature enough to enjoy a loss sometimes, even small losses.
Adam Klein wrote:I'd argue that validhunting culture is a much much much bigger issue
To understand validhunting you have to understand the balance of LRP. Validhunting would be a problem if the threats and dangers were as slow-paced as an MRP server like Manual. Validhunting would be a problem if people couldn't go around murderboning every vertical spaceman they saw - spacemen without sec gear and without weapons (as is common in MRP). But in LRP, you can tide sec gear. You can grab weapons and use them. So because there's that group of armed assistants validhunting, the murderboners and round-ruining threats have competition that balances things out. If you remove validhunting from LRP, you basically need to rework the rules to make it effectively MRP to makeup for the huge advantage antags would have as a result.

The downside of course is antags that fuck up and get debrained for having their heretic book out. But the thought-process is: just do it more secretive next time. Improve next time. You're not really there to create a scene where you convert someone into your demon cult, you're there to stunhand-cuff-drag into offer rune with a friend. It's not boring because there's so much chaos and sweat as a result, everything is fast-paced. There's still RP though, but this sort of ruleset allows for more fun with combat for everyone.

Also about the whole cap gimmick thing - he's the fuckin boss as far as I'm concerned, and unless he does some insane shit like make a law to kill all nonhumans, you have to respect his decisions and listen to him. But I also don't think he should need to make a unique gimmick every round. That's like an impossible request to make - there are cap mains, surely they can't do a new gimmick every shift. This is also the reason I think cap is so rarely chosen now in roles. It's a lot of responsibility to have to maintain the whole station and find a fun direction to go in with it. It's the hardest job for those reasons by far, although some people treat it as an assistant with gamergear. There should be a good way to just "play" cap without having to make a unique gimmick every shift, cause that's too much to ask of what is a very small playerbase and even smaller playerbase that plays captain.
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by chocolate_bickie » #603369

BeeSting12 wrote:Race war memers should be gibbed.
Literally every other route for interspecies conflict has been removed. Your comment dosen't even make sense because captains who randomly kill felinids get banned for RDM.

If your talking about captains who discriminate against no humans all I can say is, nut up. Part of being a nonhuman character is being a 2nd class citizen. Most players hugbox and treat nonhumans just like humans (including AIs, which is cringe), but if a captain decides his gimmick is to shit on nonhumans, well, that's the risk you took by playing a nonhuman.

Furthermore, exactly what is the point of nonhuman races, if all nonhuman races act like humans and are treated like humans? Mechanically they are different but RP wise they add nothing to the game.

Captains who treat nonhumans badly add more RP and atmosphere to the game than mist nonhuman characters.
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by Farquaar » #603373

chocolate_bickie wrote:
BeeSting12 wrote:Race war memers should be gibbed.
Literally every other route for interspecies conflict has been removed. Your comment dosen't even make sense because captains who randomly kill felinids get banned for RDM.

If your talking about captains who discriminate against no humans all I can say is, nut up. Part of being a nonhuman character is being a 2nd class citizen. Most players hugbox and treat nonhumans just like humans (including AIs, which is cringe), but if a captain decides his gimmick is to shit on nonhumans, well, that's the risk you took by playing a nonhuman.

Furthermore, exactly what is the point of nonhuman races, if all nonhuman races act like humans and are treated like humans? Mechanically they are different but RP wise they add nothing to the game.

Captains who treat nonhumans badly add more RP and atmosphere to the game than mist nonhuman characters.
Amen, bickie.

I’ve been playing the game for years now, and I’ve never even heard of an actual race riot round, much less played one. The current status quo is a cosmopolitan station where your species is treated with no more gravity than your choice of costume at a comic convention.

Mean and even capricious behaviour drives conflict that makes the round memorable. Captain gimmicks are no exception.
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by Fikou » #603417

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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by chocolate_bickie » #603418

No.

Players are allowed to interact with the world and attempt to make it more interesting. Otherwise there would be no point to clowns, mimes, psychologists, chaplains, rage cages, freeform upload boards, cargos many crates, costume vendors, renaming potions, mind transfer potions, the Captain in general or basically anything that dosen't involve players doing their job and ignoring everything else.
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by Armhulen » #603420

BeeSting12 wrote:Captains should be allowed to run gimmicks as long as it's original, not outright griefing, and can be solved ICly if it comes down to it. If it's funny/not overdone then I'd allow it. Problem is 90% of gimmicks are overdone. Race war memers should be gibbed. If someone gets excessive with a single gimmick, particularly one that starts to border into rule 1 violation territory, they should be told to cut it out.

I didn't really see anything wrong with your gimmick, but based on the first image in the logs (I'm too lazy to click on each picture, post a link to them lmao), it seems like you've overdone this particular gimmick. I do disagree with the part adminanon said with antags and admins being the only ones allowed to be "dungeonmasters". I think the captain is also a good position to use for that as long as it's creative. It sounds like you've overdone the same gimmick too many times.
Only thing I'd say is that with players playing enough, all concepts are pretty much "already done" at some point so it's more like spamming a gimmick round after round.

also I am still right about the AI laws ruling from years ago, please let the captain do their gimmicks as long as they aren't overbearing (sharia law, race purge, other mass griff stuff like that)
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by Pandarsenic » #603426

Captain or not, racism/sexism shitters ("no women allowed on the tram" *shove shove shove*) honestly should just be gibbed or banned. It's boring, overdone.

In RP sense, attacking your coworkers over that shit gets you written up or fired. Be biased, give them shitty jobs, ask them to do the stuff nobody wants to like mop up the vomit in the bar, but the moment you're shoving/tabling/shooting people for it, that's Assault that gets you in trouble.

In an OOC sense, you're clearly just a jackass looking to excuse griefing someone and finding a thin RP veil to drape over it so you can plead that it's LoRe SuPpOrTeD
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Armhulen
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by Armhulen » #603448

Pandarsenic wrote:Captain or not, racism/sexism shitters ("no women allowed on the tram" *shove shove shove*) honestly should just be gibbed or banned. It's boring, overdone.
Honestly not overdone but only because it's against rule 11
The Rules wrote:There is no racism in 2561, just species-ism, There is no homophobia, just xenophiliapobia, etc.
Reading this, I could honestly see a gimmick where captain tries to make only humans use the tram going okay
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Cobby
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by Cobby » #603453

Roses-The-Parks standing in the front of the tram.

Species hate memes can be ok if theyre soft, but like lol death camp is just stupid
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by iamgoofball » #603534

Admins do not get to "remain anonymous" when handing down decrees to players due to the massive, massive accountability issues this causes. This is a severe breach of admin trust and you should be opening an admin complaint ASAP about this.
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by cSeal » #603608

sinfulbliss wrote: Second I remember a round where the CMO Bella Rogue (yes this time she was rogue) denied medical help to sec cause medbay became a battleground with valids for a bit. I had to talk to them and diplomatically convince them to let sec back into medbay (previously docs would attack us full aggro when we entered).
This was a great round and the REASON I remember it is because it was UNIQUE, speaking as part of the group that was "negatively impacted." Losing is a part of the game and sometimes it's a FUN part of the game if you are mature enough to enjoy a loss sometimes, even small losses.
Thats not a gimmick, thats a valid form of retaliation to ic conflict that naturally crops up, and I 100 percent advocate for it. Heads should have the freedom to lead their department, and reacting to sec accidently filling your doctors with lead by not letting them back in is pretty reasonable. My issue with gimmicks such as this is that its inorganically trying to add conflict into a game where every other round someone is ALREADY trying to kill the entire station. You are essentially being a prick fnr as a non antag and just disguising it as a "funny gimmick" I'd like to point to the case of ted tyrant, who would upload awful laws to the ai round start, and then try to goad people into trying to depose him as captain so that he could he could fucking murder them with his lynch squad- we have antagonists for that shit already.
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by Misdoubtful » #603651

If its funny, doesn't break the rules and doesn't ruin the round: who cares?

There's a difference between creating IC struggles and challenges / healthy rounds and running around ruining the round for others and breaking the rules.

Does it really need to be more in depth than that?
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by sinfulbliss » #603759

Misdoubtful wrote:If its funny, doesn't break the rules and doesn't ruin the round: who cares?

There's a difference between creating IC struggles and challenges / healthy rounds and running around ruining the round for others and breaking the rules.

Does it really need to be more in depth than that?
No it doesn't. Let's just all agree with this tbh, bam conflict resolved.
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by Cobby » #603825

iamgoofball wrote:Admins do not get to "remain anonymous" when handing down decrees to players due to the massive, massive accountability issues this causes. This is a severe breach of admin trust and you should be opening an admin complaint ASAP about this.
if they thought the ruling was fine then it makes perfect sense to blot out names in policy discussion because the point is to discuss the policy in general and less so about the specific ruling made by the specific admin, which might lead to you preferring a response over the other (my friend ruled this way so I agree with him).

It is probably harder for you to relate to this experience as you hate all admins equally :smug:
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by Jonathan Gupta » #603859

Cobby wrote:It is probably harder for you to relate to this experience as you hate all admins equally :smug:
unpopular opinion(Not an unpopular opinion at all), tg admins are the only admins that are semi calm when making bans and aren't there with in mind to ban you. Bee admins, they come in to ban my ass without talking much(also include if they were compliant rather just the report, and if they understand what they did) which is why I play TGMC and Russtation 13 now.
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by cacogen » #603877

The /tg/ admins have come to hold themselves to a standard of professionalism not seen in the days of people like HG, who was terrible. Why did they do this to themselves, when they don't answer to anyone but each other and have little transparency to hold them accountable to outside scrutiny? I don't know.
Cobby wrote:
iamgoofball wrote:Admins do not get to "remain anonymous" when handing down decrees to players due to the massive, massive accountability issues this causes. This is a severe breach of admin trust and you should be opening an admin complaint ASAP about this.
It is probably harder for you to relate to this experience as you hate all admins equally :smug:
I'm not clear if Cobby is an admin or if he just does it for free for free but he consistently reminds me of a school librarian coming over to the table you and your friends are sitting at at lunchtime on a wet day and telling you to be quiet while you're in the middle of having fun.
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by Not-Dorsidarf » #603928

cacogen wrote:The /tg/ admins have come to hold themselves to a standard of professionalism not seen in the days of people like HG, who was terrible. Why did they do this to themselves, when they don't answer to anyone but each other and have little transparency to hold them accountable to outside scrutiny? I don't know.
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There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by Cobby » #604335

cacogen wrote: I'm not clear if Cobby is an admin or if he just does it for free for free but he consistently reminds me of a school librarian coming over to the table you and your friends are sitting at at lunchtime on a wet day and telling you to be quiet while you're in the middle of having fun.
weird considering i said im ok with this in the thread and am typically Keep it IC.

I’m an admin as well so I’m double mental which I think cancels out or something
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by Cobby » #604395

cacogen wrote:The /tg/ admins have come to hold themselves to a standard of professionalism not seen in the days of people like HG, who was terrible. Why did they do this to themselves, when they don't answer to anyone but each other and have little transparency to hold them accountable to outside scrutiny? I don't know.
This is because there were 2 servers with one having very few people on it so it was basically a friend group. Now we have 4 servers, 3 fluctuating between pop throughout the day, and 2 having a distinct culture different from the other 2.

Back in the "good ol days" you could rely on the gentlemans agreement because anyone added to the friend group was curated by your friends and that pool was relatively low. Now with many different people all with different perspectives on the game (compounded by the fact that there are actually different approaches admin-wise to the game across our servers) it makes sense that you have to establish expectations previously relying on the gentleman's agreement so everyone is on the same page.

Not to say admins dont get along, but we definitely disagree on a lot of issue compared to the discussions had when I first started as an admin for example.
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by Misdoubtful » #604403

Yeah I've skippered across a lot of ss13 servers staffing and Cobby nailed it there. It's either tightly knit and everyone is on the same page, or guidelines start to happen to keep things on the same general page. It's not a bad thing, just a necessity.
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Re: Clarification on Captain gimmicks and what's acceptable.

Post by Jimmius » #609258

This quote from Timberpoes sums up the ethos behind captain gimmicks, why they're allowed, and where the line is rather well:
Shifts absolutely should be focused around the players creating stories. The line I'd start to draw is merely where the Cap's gimmick is bordering on antagonistic to the crew.
Admins are of course ultimately responsible for determining if any given gimmick is over the line or not- this includes asking you to stop doing an otherwise acceptable gimmick if you're doing it every round.

Headmin Votes:
Coconutwarrior97: Yes
Jimmius: Yes
Naloac: Yes
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