Usage of non-english speech

[Colovorat]

Made a funny announcement with a line from lyrics of russian song, nothing special, get this https://atlantaned.space/banbus/ticket/cf44c47b7ba9a735 , https://atlantaned.space/banbus/mymessages/77754. I think bwoinking over harmless joke like this is absurdly stupid, it's not spam or annoying or something, it's just harmless joke on lowpop. I do also have this thing https://atlantaned.space/banbus/mymessages/73800 (A note for speaking russian on aprils fools day as a gimmick) which is just beyond stupid. I do think usage of non english speech for a purpose a joke shouldn't be bwionkable if it's not spamming.
EDIT: Also just noticed now, note for over-antagonistic behaviour is minor severity just like speaking russian on aprils fools day

[nulladept]

what was the line in your announcement? from what song?

[Colovorat]

On russian song called Фотографирую закат
The thing that i posted is: Фотографирую закат, Будто пару лет назад, Без тебя, без тебя
Translates like that: Photographing a sunset, It's like a few years ago, Without you, without you

[nulladept]

lmao deserved then get fucked dolboeb

[Mothblocks]

Neither players nor admins should be expected to use Google Translate. The rule against non-English speech is in part due to the player experience, as well as making it much simpler to administrate.

This is why nobody will bwoink you if you say something like "c'est la vie", but sending an entire announcement in Russian will.

[Colovorat]

As once again, it was not spam or something, it was a god damn joke. but yea when some players spam with arabic/chinese shit it's fine

[Mothblocks]

but yea when some players spam with arabic/chinese shit it's fine

No, it isn't.

[Colovorat]

but yea when some players spam with arabic/chinese shit it's fine

No, it isn't.

well didn't saw it stopped, it's occuring from time to time

[Mothblocks]

You should ahelp them then

[Tarhalindur]

but yea when some players spam with arabic/chinese shit it's fine

No, it isn't.

well didn't saw it stopped, it's occuring from time to time

Maybe ahelp it when it happens then. The admins can't see everything.

Would be nice if there was some sort of system that notified admins whenever a message containing non-standard characters was posted but I don't think there currently is one.

[Screemonster]

As once again, it was not spam or something, it was a god damn joke. but yea when some players spam with arabic/chinese shit it's fine

how the fuck are we supposed to be able to tell whether it's a joke if we don't speak the fucking language the joke is in

[Colovorat]

Announcement being on other language is a joke overall, if you want to know what it says just ask bruh

[Misdoubtful]

Announcement being on other language is a joke overall, if you want to know what it says just ask bruh

It shouldn't really be expected that someone would even have to ask.

[Fikou]

current headmin ruling for context

Using any language other than English in-game
While we warmly welcome and eagerly invite players from all around the world to participate in the /tg/ community, we require everyone to communicate exclusively in English when playing on our servers. This restriction applies to both IC and OOC methods of communication.

[Colovorat]

I don't find medium severity for such note is appropriate. First note was on aprils fools day, when i was asked to stop speaking, i did so, this note is second note after a half of a year, and being a medium severity is kinda meeh

[Omega_DarkPotato]

Then go appeal the note?

[wubli]

i think we should use tgmc's rule

English is the language of the server.
It's fine to play a foreign character with an accent, to use foreign expressions or to hold short conversations in another language. But when it becomes systematic it excludes the part of the server that doesn't speak that other language. English is expected to be understood and spoken by everyone in here, and should be used for communication. If you can read and understand these rules then your English is probably good enough.

(you should probably stick to latin alphabet since people might make more out of it than if you use anything else)

[Timberpoes]

English is tgstation's lingua franca.

I think for actual enforcement, it's closer to say that people are required to follow with the spirit of speaking English. It is not uncommon to see foreign words or phrases woven into sentences that English speakers understand due to popular culture or just exposure in general.

We have a very laissez-faire approach to administrating non-English phrases and phraseology.

Anothing damn Tram shift... Well, c'est la vie! Changelings can give you a brief sense of deja vu. Caveat emptor applies when buying random plants from botany. Shitting up the station is the raison d'etre for many greytiders. Admins often swoop in as deus ex machina to solve problems. Uwuspeak felinids have a certain je ne sais quoi about them. Sometimes the HoP asks for a little quid pro quo in exchange for restricted accesses.

The above are fine.

Using characters outside of the Latin alphabet are a big no-no and will likely get you spoken to, reminded of the rules and asked to communicate in English.

Entire sentences in other languages which necessitate admins and/or players to tab out and translate to understand anything you're saying are a big no-no and will likely get you spoken to as above as well.

... or to hold short conversations in another language

I feel this is where SS13 departs from CM. CM is humans vs xenos and not humans vs other humans. It matters much less if John Doe and Joe Bloggs exchange a quick sentence or two in French or Dutch, as they're all on the same team and people on the other team can't understand them anyway, probably? This is not the case in SS13's crewmember vs crewmember game modes.

[Kryson]

is speaking another language as a gimmick really that different from taking the foreigner quirk or just being mute?

Shouldn't we encourage playing characters that isn't just John American?

Obviously in moderation, we don't want half of the server refusing to communicate in english.

It matters much less if John Doe and Joe Bloggs exchange a quick sentence or two in French or Dutch, as they're all on the same team and people on the other team can't understand them anyway, probably? This is not the case in SS13's crewmember vs crewmember game modes.

Powergamer mindset

Neither players nor admins need to understand everything.

If rule breaking speech gets reported, breaking out the google translate should not be that difficult.

[Timberpoes]

is speaking another language as a gimmick really that different from taking the foreigner quirk or just being mute?

Yes. In the case of the foreigner quirk, there are in-game methods to translate messages from pAIs to circuits, from PDA messages to pen and paper. The game logs and speech logs also don't take on the characteristics of the coded language. It's a very mechanical distinction. We mechanically support alternative IC languages through code. They serve as a means for players to communicate exclusively using English, but to simulate the experience of other players not being able to understand what's being said unless they also speak that IC language.

Mute is the same, communication via emotes which follow the same rules about language as spoken sentences.

[wubli]

... or to hold short conversations in another language

I feel this is where SS13 departs from CM. CM is humans vs xenos and not humans vs other humans. It matters much less if John Doe and Joe Bloggs exchange a quick sentence or two in French or Dutch, as they're all on the same team and people on the other team can't understand them anyway, probably? This is not the case in SS13's crewmember vs crewmember game modes.

i think you can say one thing to someone in a different language without it being a huge deal, but i understand why it's a slippery slope since you don't know who may use this allowed opportunity to say something they shouldn't

[Kryson]

The game logs and speech logs also don't take on the characteristics of the coded language. It's a very mechanical distinction.

Yeah but it is not like speech in foreign languages is unlogged, it can still be reported and investigated if someone hears rule breaking speech.

I think the game would better off if a approach similar to TGMC was adopted, For example, I think hearing the Polish statics on Terry speak Polish with each other would add a lot of flavour and make the world feel more believable, even if I don't speak the language myself.

However I don't expect the admin team is going to accept the slight loss of control this would entail, which is sad.

but i understand why it's a slippery slope since you don't know who may use this allowed opportunity to say something they shouldn't

If no one reports it, chances are it shouldn't become an administrative matter in the first place.

[Cobby]

Speaking a different language can be fun which is why we try to replicate the experience with species-tied languages and foreigner quirk.

What we dont want is actually foreign languages IRL because admins DO need to know whats being said especially if its used to make any sort of decision.

I dont want to have to parse logs everytime because I dont understand the language, I hate log diving as it is

[Colovorat]

If no one reports it, chances are it shouldn't become an administrative matter in the first place.

I do like this one, if it's something local, on lowpop, and no one cares so they don't ahelp it, it shouldn't be intervined from administrative side

[wubli]

so i'm thinking specifically about a dude who i know speaks spanish so i might whisper him a silly joke but that's it, neither of us actually has conversations in spanish
speaking and emoting broke the other day on sybil and he handed me a paper saying "hi how are you" in poorly written spanish and i responded "if you read this you're gay" in spanish as well and didn't think much of it
but i do get that i could simply be whispering/writing something incriminating and forcing an admin to look up what it means just to make sure i'm not abusing it

[Misdoubtful]

i think we should use tgmc's rule

English is the language of the server.
It's fine to play a foreign character with an accent, to use foreign expressions or to hold short conversations in another language. But when it becomes systematic it excludes the part of the server that doesn't speak that other language. English is expected to be understood and spoken by everyone in here, and should be used for communication. If you can read and understand these rules then your English is probably good enough.

(you should probably stick to latin alphabet since people might make more out of it than if you use anything else)

I actually like this one quite a bit.

Speaking a different language can be fun which is why we try to replicate the experience with species-tied languages and foreigner quirk.

What we dont want is actually foreign languages IRL because admins DO need to know whats being said especially if its used to make any sort of decision.

I dont want to have to parse logs everytime because I dont understand the language, I hate log diving as it is

But also this.

Does tgmc provide the same exclusivity and breadth of languages? Do they strike the same chord as saying hola or Gute Nacht to your fellow spacemanmarineperson? Is that even reasonable to allow?

As per the ruling, doesn't really seem to line up allowing it. Things are labeled as: English Exclusive Communication. I'm not about to enforce that when I feel it's okay to and not enforce it at some other time. That'd be some bad voodoo nonsense and I'd look like a douche.

We require everyone to communicate exclusively in English when playing on our servers.

Unless something changes?

[Fikou]

is speaking another language as a gimmick really that different from taking the foreigner quirk or just being mute?

yes the ways to overcome them arent out of the game like opening a translator on your second monitor

Shouldn't we encourage playing characters that isn't just John American?

you can do this without requiring people to use google translate

If rule breaking speech gets reported, breaking out the google translate should not be that difficult.

i shouldnt have to

For example, I think hearing the Polish statics on Terry speak Polish with each other would add a lot of flavour and make the world feel more believable, even if I don't speak the language myself.

im polish and i visibly cringe when people do that it puts me out of the world than anything

[Armhulen]

If you go to non english servers you will learn they have the same rules as we do except they do not "warmly welcome and eagerly invite players from all around the world"

[Colovorat]

If you go to non english servers you will learn they have the same rules as we do except they do not "warmly welcome and eagerly invite players from all around the world"

Actually some russian servers allow english players to speak only english, so you can fully roleplay on russian servers without knowledge of russian language

[Farquaar]

I'd rather not have to copy-paste dialogue into google translate just to see what people are talking about with their metafriends. Still, I think an April Fools day announcement in Russian is pretty harmless in the grand scheme of things.

[Istoprocent1]

Full dialogue perhaps no, but phrases (including non-latin alphabet) for gimmicks (such as voice activation bombs) should be allowed in my humble opinion. This improves the gaming experience and looking up a short phrase on google translate is not too much of a hassle.

[Malkraz]

笑うこと

[Armhulen]

Full dialogue perhaps no, but phrases (including non-latin alphabet) for gimmicks (such as voice activation bombs) should be allowed in my humble opinion. This improves the gaming experience and looking up a short phrase on google translate is not too much of a hassle.

Voice activation stuff sounds pretty powergamey considering keyboards can't always type in more than one language, requiring you to copy and paste foreign characters to trigger the bomb

[Istoprocent1]

Full dialogue perhaps no, but phrases (including non-latin alphabet) for gimmicks (such as voice activation bombs) should be allowed in my humble opinion. This improves the gaming experience and looking up a short phrase on google translate is not too much of a hassle.

Voice activation stuff sounds pretty powergamey considering keyboards can't always type in more than one language, requiring you to copy and paste foreign characters to trigger the bomb

How would it be powergamey? One could easily copy-paste things like "12241" or "jrhnbr" ie. talk gibberish. The beeps and hsssssssss of the activation works the same regardless of whats being said.

[Misdoubtful]

Full dialogue perhaps no, but phrases (including non-latin alphabet) for gimmicks (such as voice activation bombs) should be allowed in my humble opinion. This improves the gaming experience and looking up a short phrase on google translate is not too much of a hassle.

Voice activation stuff sounds pretty powergamey considering keyboards can't always type in more than one language, requiring you to copy and paste foreign characters to trigger the bomb

How would it be powergamey? One could easily copy-paste things like "12241" or "jrhnbr" ie. talk gibberish. The beeps and hsssssssss of the activation works the same regardless of whats being said.

They mean if your bomb code is: бомбить (bomb)

If thats even the right translation, if they don't just use random characters like ииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииии

[Super Aggro Crag]

Am i allow to use russian if my character is Russian singing a russian song and playing ig
Y on guitar

[Armhulen]

They mean if your bomb code is: бомбить (bomb)

If thats even the right translation, if they don't just use random characters like ииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииии

I mean that I would also be pissed if someone did their bomb code as ©©©. same issue in that people can't type it out

Am i allow to use russian if my character is Russian singing a russian song and playing ig
Y on guitar

i say yes but maybe headmins say no lets find out

[Super Aggro Crag]

Im like the only guy who knows putting a % in your sentence make u sing

[Colovorat]

Im like the only guy who knows putting a % in your sentence make u sing

Thanks

[NamelessFairy]

Using non-english to communicate sentences or obscure information is not allowed, admins are invited to use their discretion for minor usage of non-english words/phrases, especially where its usage causes confusion amongst other players.

Headmin Votes:
NamelessFairy: Yes
Dragomagol: Yes
RaveRadbury: Yes