[MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

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[MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by RaveRadbury » #617381

This thread is for discussing whether Heretic should remain on MRP.
NecromancerAnne wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:43 am I always have had problems with heretics on MRP. I already personally think heretics are extremely derivative tryhard antagonists that focus heavily on murderbone and are mostly geared towards veteran players who know what they're doing, and that's probably an interesting premise and challenge for the LRP servers.

But given heretic rolls on the same threat as traitors, cannot be reasonably contained because they possess magic, have little mechanics beyond excessive mass murder as part of their objectives, and will be granted the reward of a free murderbone pass (though they functionally have one already) once they get enough kills under their belt. Their progress is based on a dynamically updated list of people to round remove on a rune and gaining additional tools as a result. If they're not doing this, even if they do get some of the free points scattered around the station (which they compete for with other heretics), they ultimately won't get very far without that.

The antagonist is the antithesis of what Manuel was meant to be, a server to slow down and do more interesting things with your role. You kind of just bring the round to an immediate close as a successful heretic. The only tension you present is that you are more or less a time bomb on the rounds longevity. I don't even know if what carsh posted is against the rules for heretics as it stands, because you can very easily follow the rules as heretic and still more or less be skirting them the whole way through.

Since the person who was originally maintaining Heretic was only focusing on it's performance on Terry, a LRP server with very powergamey players on it and a high skill floor, and also has long since left /tg/ after getting burned out on the process, it's doubtful this mode has the MRP rules at heart or can be worked on further since it also seems counter to what maintainers want from our antagonists as well. When I've spoken to maintainers about what should be going forward with antagonist changes (focusing on traitor and ling), a lot of it is 'emphasis on stealth, sabotage, cleverness, remove mass murder from gear and really objectives as well'. Pretty much that signals to me that Heretics as it is probably isn't going to see further development that isn't a total rework.

It's development wise Cult 2.0, all the same problems, all the wrong and similar priorities (powergame or lose, extremely unforgiving to new players), all the same burnout, and probably the same developmental stagnation.

I'll be honest, I think it just shouldn't roll on MRP. Let Sybil and Terry have it, they'll definitely and do enjoy it, but it has no place here, and that's extremely disappointing since I really had hopes for it.
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by Armhulen » #617386

NecromancerAnne wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:43 am The antagonist is the antithesis of what Manuel was meant to be, a server to slow down and do more interesting things with your role.

I heavily disagree with the notion that medium roleplay and slowing down the game are hand in hand, I would say that in some cases (not usually touched on by heretics, but in theory could be) mass murder can help drive a story. Challenges people have to overcome make for the stories that brought me into the game and I still consider plasmaflooded station mixed with hull breaches and flickering power to be one of this game's best rp opportunity. I talk in the manuel discord from time to time and a lot of people have this notion that roleplayers shouldn't be mechanically skilled. Ridiculous right? People should be using their skill to foster cool stories over winning.
NecromancerAnne wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:43 am Pretty much that signals to me that Heretics as it is probably isn't going to see further development that isn't a total rework.
wtf, the biggest problem with it is the learning curve being obfuscated by weird wiki-required mechanics. It is not hard to make a few modifications to heretic's kit all around and make a mrp workable antag. I would start by adding a way to contain heretics so there's some nuance to killing them or not, and being able to talk to them and their eldritch shiz. Or maybe adjust dynamic spawn rates, if they're a bit too common as a force you cannot contain and do not... THAT much interaction with.
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by Farquaar » #617387

Wholly agree with Armhulen here
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by Mothblocks » #617388

Every problem that heretic has on MRP exists on LRP, I would significantly rather work be done into figuring out how to make the antag healthier or shut it out entirely.
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by cacogen » #617395

On Manuel, Heretic lends itself well to random people being abducted and gibbed while they're trying to roleplay, never to return.
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by Rohen_Tahir » #617396

Armhulen wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:02 pm I talk in the manuel discord from time to time and a lot of people have this notion that roleplayers shouldn't be mechanically skilled. Ridiculous right? People should be using their skill to foster cool stories over winning.
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by Archie700 » #617407

Mothblocks wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:06 pm Every problem that heretic has on MRP exists on LRP, I would significantly rather work be done into figuring out how to make the antag healthier or shut it out entirely.
Difference is that in LRP everyone can at least respond to the threat, it's more damaging on MRP than LRP.
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by carshalash » #617417

As much as I love and adore heretic, there are too many bad faith heretic players on manual now. Ascension is treated as something to rush towards for freedom to bone indiscriminately and a lot of times heretics will bone before getting to it. Too many people treat it as a ticket to murderbone instead of fun spooky antag. I vote to pull the plug.
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by Armhulen » #617418

If it requires good faith to not be shitty then it's a design flaw
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by mstachife » #617423

Issue with heretic imo is the RRing and blade break spamming. Some heretics will throw heads back in medical, but lets be honest waking up naked in medical (assuming your head is found) is a pretty shit experience and many just go soulless instead. A competent ash heretic with extra blades for teleport spamming and mask is excessively frustrating to deal with, more so than anything except maybe a wizard. Flesh gives RR'd people an opportunity to do something, but due to how meta ash is it's once in a blue moon that you see one of those. All of these things could be fixed codewise, but that would depend if anyone would be willing to do so. At this point I'd say it takes far more away from the round than we get out of it.
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by carshalash » #617427

Why has the ash mask not been removed yet anyway?
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by Armhulen » #617433

If someone who knew how to code took issue with it and had time it'd be a pr a long time ago, that's just how it goes
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by spookuni » #617438

I've been pretty vocally in favour of a purpose built violent antag on Manuel for a while now - I think having an antagonist who provides explicit and personal threat to the crew while it lives is good for promoting genuine paranoia and fear in a way that's often very interesting to play with. Having said that, Heretic is in a really bad place code wise at the moment, to the degree that I agree it should be disabled if it's not modified heavily soon, the server would be better off without it, tragic as I think that is.

The main issues with heretic (in no particular order) as I see on MRP, though parts of this will be apply to LRP too are

1. Defacto uncontainability - Heretics gain access to an undisarmable pseudo-baton almost immediately, and the only easy ways to get rid of it is to dearm them entirely, to brainwash them with the E.P.I.C, or to mute them forever, two of which (E.P.I.C and genetics muting) are unavailable to security at roundstart, one of which (muting) dramatically cuts down on possible interaction between the captured antag and security anyway, and one of which (dearming) is basically just GBJing someone to a degree largely indistinguishable from locking them in a windowless room. This undermines efforts by security and the crew at large to non-lethally arrest and detain heretics, and promotes a kill the valid on sight mentality which is directly counter to the intended purpose of MRP rule 6 and Manuel in general. If heretics are to stick around and fit in they need some of this uncontainability removed, whether by my proposal from a while back of making them focus casters who need to be carrying / using their gear to use their spells, setting them up as more vancian casters who need to prepare their magic, or by leaning into the alchemy and transmutation angle and making their abilities require material components and casting costs, they need to be something that you can actually stop, not mini-wizards who are treated like changelings, with none of the intrinsic survivability of either.

2. Automatic Round Removal - When heretics kill and sacrifice people they entirely gib their bodies, destroying any gear they were carrying and leaving their bodiless head in some dark corner of maintenance. Even in the absolute ideal cases this dramatically slows down how soon it is POSSIBLE to get people back into the round and playing the game, on a server where rounds can last upwards of two hours, and realistically once things start going to shit bodiless heads are at the bottom of the triage pole, and probably aren't getting revived at all. People as a general rule don't like being killed and round removed, even people who are happy to take a fall if it makes the round more interesting overall generally aren't too thrilled to get summarily yeeted from playing the game, and thus people push back at successful heretics even harder than with other antagonists, because a heretic being successful almost always means people are getting round removed, and that's both not fun to actually play and not appreciated by most of the Manuel community.

3. Ascension is stupid - In hindsight having an antag who gets a murderbone pass for being really good at reliably murdering people was a stupid fucking decision. Ascension is too hard for new players to the antag type, requiring a pretty good idea of what you plan to do and how you plan to go about it to succeed, and is way too easy for experienced Heretics with a cookie cutter plan on how to make as many targets dead as quickly as possible so that they can stop bothering with targets and just kill everyone. I get that Heretic is a massive ripoff off cultist sim flavour and cultist sim flavour is very good flavour, but ascension in it's current format is just terrible, and needs either a massive rework to how it works or to just fucking go.

Heretic has also has some low level issues that could really use fixing (#deletetheashmask), but those are the big three that in my view make the antag as it currently exists incompatible with MRP, and for most of them pretty shit on LRP too, if heretic got some major reworking I'd love to see it stay around, but as it is now, even as my favourite antag, it's a pretty bad fit.
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by CMDR_Gungnir » #617440

I agree with what Spookuni was saying.

I think the two things that could be done to fix Heretic instead of removing it would be to remove Ascension, and to make it so that sacrifice isn't round removal.

A way I've seen another server fix it, created by Melbert in fact, was that when you get sacrificed, you're revived and teleported to a little pocket dimension, and made to play touhou for a while. If you survive, you're teleported to station alive and with no memory of what happened. If you die, your corpse is teleported back to station, and you also have no memory of what happened.

That one change to Sacrifice would be huge for Heretic's viability on Manuel (as well as the LRP servers imo) as it means that being sacrificed doesn't take you out of the round forever (gibbing) and wouldn't encourage people to hide the body like most other antags do (so that you can't snitch on them). The removal of ascension would also make people be more interesting about it instead of just speedrunning the thing that lets them freely kill as many as they want. Cross-pathing is actually really cool.
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by Noodlecat » #617448

Let me address the three main issues mainly being: sacrificing, ascending, and containing captured heretics.

1. Containing captured heretics is easy if you know what to do, the best way to contain a heretic is with a muzzle, muzzles prevent verbal magic from being used. Another way of containing a heretic if you need to talk with them is holy water, not only does holy water make you immune to magic, it also makes you unable to use it.

2. Ascending in its current state is kinda okay, I do like how the ascension rewards are inversely proportionate to the difficulty of the branch (eg, flesh ascension vs ash ascension). I also like the roleplay opportunities that hiding from the big evil magic man gives you. Very little situations on Manuel have the same feeling of being hunted down.

3. Sacrificing could be way better than it is right now, it could be made more interesting if the heretic could turn you into some eldrich servent that has to stay near the heretic or die, acting as some sort of bodyguard maybe, to give the sacrificed something to do.
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by Istoprocent1 » #617452

Mothblocks wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:06 pm Every problem that heretic has on MRP exists on LRP, I would significantly rather work be done into figuring out how to make the antag healthier or shut it out entirely.
This. I would propose removing heretic entirely on all servers rather than fixing it with a "just get that antag outta the server I prefer to play on" style.
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by Mothblocks » #617456

Spookuni, I would argue not just most, but all 3 of the points you made apply to LRP. A relief to hear, I hope!

The problem being that, whereas a lot of the behavior you describe is allowed on LRP, it's usually not required.

The kill-the-valid requirement of heretic exists on LRP. You're allowed to do this, but a lot of good-faith players who are interested in some fun will try to take you to security, to perma, or whatever. Because of their uncontainability, they cannot be, and must be killed.

Round removal on LRP is pretty shitty too. Antagonists are allowed to do it to whatever degree they want, of course, but that doesn't make it any healthier on LRP than it is on MRP. Heretic requires round removal, and so even the best faithed of antagonists who wouldn't usually round remove are required to do it.

And boy is ascension harder when your server base is built from people who make it their mission to be as robust as possible :)
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by Archie700 » #617465

Mothblocks wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:09 am And boy is ascension harder when your server base is built from people who make it their mission to be as robust as possible :)
Unless you get it at lowpop, then you're basically a desword murderboner.
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by Timberpoes » #617471

MRP has different rules and different gameplay requirements.

The headmins have the prerogative to make certain antags rarer or disable them outright via dynamic/configs. This is not headmin overreach. This is not headmins spitting in the faces of coders. This is one of the only tools they have available to use when they feel something doesn't work and it's causing either administrative or policy issues and code solutions aren't materialising fast enough.

If we're seeing either RP policy or administrative concerns as a result of a specific antag type on MRP, then I support their use of the config to bandage over issues until a more full and proper code solution can be deployed. If one ever is deployed.

Of course I also expect them to work with the coding team to re-enable the antag type once these solutions present themselves.

I would have suggested trying it as a high impact ruleset on MRP instead, however we have that completely hardcoded so there's not many options on that front.
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by NecromancerAnne » #617474

Istoprocent1 wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:38 am
Mothblocks wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:06 pm Every problem that heretic has on MRP exists on LRP, I would significantly rather work be done into figuring out how to make the antag healthier or shut it out entirely.
This. I would propose removing heretic entirely on all servers rather than fixing it with a "just get that antag outta the server I prefer to play on" style.
I didn't quite expect this to become its own thread but since it is now, I do want to say I actually was of the same opinion as mothblocks, that it is a problem everywhere, but I suspected/suspect removing heretic on LRP would be extremely unpopular. It massively appeals in all the right ways to those looking to prove themselves as robust. It is genuinely one of the hardest antags we have. Not confusing like cult, just hard. So it is a good measuring stick for some people if successful enough.
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by bastardblaster » #617477

The whole payoff of heretic IS the ascension. Heretics are ticking time bombs, and racing against the clock as the heretic gets closer to ascension provides for some actual urgency. Is heretic gets ascension removed, the antag essentially loses the reward for going through the pain of playing early game heretic
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by Mothblocks » #617479

This is not headmin overreach. This is not headmins spitting in the faces of coders.
I am not sure who was saying this. I was saying that they should just disable it everywhere if there's nobody fixing this in code, because all of the same problems apply on LRP.
I would have suggested trying it as a high impact ruleset on MRP instead, however we have that completely hardcoded so there's not many options on that front.
Not true, any variable is editable through dynamic.json.
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by Timberpoes » #617485

Mothblocks wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:01 pm
This is not headmin overreach. This is not headmins spitting in the faces of coders.
I am not sure who was saying this. I was saying that they should just disable it everywhere if there's nobody fixing this in code, because all of the same problems apply on LRP.
LRP has the full benefit of Rule 4. They're just another antag. On MRP, heretics can (and do) cause policy and/or administrative issues.

RP Rule 4 becomes an issue. Unlike other murderbone-restricted antags, heretics universally have a pass to gib people to earn points to become a murderbone-allowed antag. They can become a station-wide threat before ever ascending and the closer they get to ascension, the bigger of a threat they are.

RP Rule 6 becomes an issue. Heretics are casters with limited ways to prevent their casting. Admins have regularly ruled that non-lethally containing a confirmed heretic is at the discretion of the crew, and that executing them is almost always a viable option. As a scaling focus-less caster antag that approaches murderbone pass as they accomplish their objectives, it's difficult to justify treating heretics proportionately to their crimes because all heretics have a route to ascend and murderbone.

RP Rule 8 becomes an issue. It's not like traitors whose objectives are much more limited in scope. The heretic's objective is to ascend and gain a murderbone pass. Knowing there's a heretic immediately causes alarm bells in player heads that can draw them towards powergaming to compete. A heretic is an existential-threat-in-waiting.

If heretic is played to greentext, it tends to push other players into conflict with RP Rules 4, 6 and 8. It tends to learn on RP security policy. It crosses over the murderbone policy.

None of these are policy issues on LRP. Server Rule 4 means any antag can do what it likes and players can do whatever they like to antags. There's no anti-powergaming rule. No anti-murderbone policy. No anti-validhunt rule. On LRP, heretic flaws are gameplay and design issues. That discussion is for the coding section and not the policy section.
Mothblocks wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:01 pm
I would have suggested trying it as a high impact ruleset on MRP instead, however we have that completely hardcoded so there's not many options on that front.
Not true, any variable is editable through dynamic.json.
Then that would be my solution if disabling them entirely is considered bad form. But the length and breadth of the heretic ruleset's ability to cause both antags and players alike to subvert the RP ruleset makes me think that disabling them and seeing if the MRP experience improves may just be the most prudent option.
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by Cobby » #617487

If the issue is that they can do it under cloak and dagger the entire time that seems to be more of a code-side complaint rather than an administrative, particularly to MRP, one.

I have always argued that there is nothing wrong with a chaotic antag. Not every antag needs to be neatly wrapped in a bow, heretic is definitely one that forces you to flip the switch and take on a more aggressive approach.

Personally i find that favorable since MRP is suppose to blend the slow and the fast without having the ugly chain murderboning on every antag you get style of play.

I almost think that the issue is administratively on the other hand in which players feel like they cant try to address the threat without catching a bwoink. If you know there is a heretic around it should be fair game to stop them in the same vein knowing a blob, cult, or any other round wrenching antag appears.

If the issue is that it spawns too frequently unlike some of the other show-stoppers I would say a config edit is warranted, but outright removal is a bit nuclear.
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by Pandarsenic » #617551

I don't really Manuel much (tbh I haven't Sybiled for a while because of realworld stuff) but I think there ARE some MRP-specific issues not addressed, maybe?

The Heretic doesn't have any sort of clear interactable lore (compare to the Syndicate, changelings, Nar'sie, and so on)
Because of that, they have no apparent motivation, nor readily-apparent RP complexity, nor any hooks that someone can use.
And, in turn, because of that, they have no significant motivation to be social or interact with anyone outside of quickly dunking them to get Heretic Telecrystals

You can't threaten someone into compliance because your only possible greentext-related motive is to make people explode on your runes until you become an untouchable god of death. You can't negotiate with security for pretty much the same reason. Nearly all of your cool shit revolves around making you a more efficient killer until you are the Most Efficient Killer. As mentioned by others here, as a player, you are incentivized to fight back with whatever you have available because the only real alternative if they're left unattended is round removal, either before the Heretic ascends or as a stepping stone to it.

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The flip side of that is probably something like "Okay but what about Nuke Ops" I guess
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by BrianBackslide » #617570

Removal does nothing but commit an interesting antagonist to the graveyard of all the other gamemodes.

Reducing the amount Heretic rolls just means that players who haven't learned to Heretic won't learn how to Heretic. Unlike Wizards, Heretics don't start out extremely powerful, and an antagonist that makes players think outside the box with what they have to do to complete their objectives is a good thing. Most Heretics end up dead with maybe one sacrifice completed. They only become a threat once they hit the later tiers and get closer to ascension. Even then, they're still very much stoppable before they ascend, so it's not like they're a round-ender from the beginning. A threat to the station that becomes more of a threat? The nerve! We're here to arpee and can't fathom that something might exist that FORCES the round forward.

As someone who exclusively plays MRP, I've never once felt the need to powergame to stop/avoid a Heretic. Hell, most times I accidentally bumble into stopping them early with a well-placed cream pie. If they're THAT much of a problem, (and they aren't) then either they need their powers toned down, or their mechanic for gaining points needs to be changed. What if getting a sample of blood was enough for [1] point, and then the system was changed so you needed [10] points for the next tier, or something similar? Then threatening people for their blood/organs could be part of the RP. Make getting points interesting, and maybe tone down some of the powers, but Heretic as it is feels fine. Then again, I don't have much problem with murder spirals/light murderbone.

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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by Yulice » #617579

Yeah, I'd be down with turning them off on MRP until code changes are made to fix it, or security policy is changed so that dealing with heretics isn't a huge pain in the dick that earns you a bwoink half the time.
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by Istoprocent1 » #617607

Yulice wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:43 pm Yeah, I'd be down with turning them off on MRP until code changes are made to fix it, or security policy is changed so that dealing with heretics isn't a huge pain in the dick that earns you a bwoink half the time.
Either turn it off entirely and fix or modify the spawnrate on all servers - 1-2 heretics sprinkled in with other threats at maximum rather than keeping the current funny dynamic of 4+ heretics having to make the round interesting (they don't). Heretic doesn't add anything interesting to LRP. Don't just push a badly designed (imho) antag on the servers you don't play.
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oranges
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by oranges » #617614

Armhulen wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:56 pm If it requires good faith to not be shitty then it's a design flaw
Fuck off, it's an admin issue
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by Armhulen » #617616

oranges wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:53 pm
Armhulen wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:56 pm If it requires good faith to not be shitty then it's a design flaw
Fuck off, it's an admin issue
bwoink hey i've noticed you haven't made any potions with a cauldron can you talk about why? it better be a good reason, i don't want to give you a vacation
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Aeri
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by Aeri » #617640

Heretic chugs dirt to the point where I turned it off on Manny because sec powergames their asses off in pursuit of you (And in fairness, they kind of have to before you become an invincible nightmare) and the odds are in favor of you being executed even if you haven't managed to do an ounce of harm to anyone.

Funny book? It's the gibber for you pal!

Plus it's super easy for "stealth" to get ruined. Mysterious rune? Somebody tapped an influence? There is literally nowhere on the station that your rune will not be found because nosy nellies who know where every single wall and piece of maint loot spawns will find it. You spend your whole round trying to "Ascend" in pursuit of an uncreative murder spree, at this point if an admin bwoinked me and said "hey wanna be a heretic? Free? No strings attached?" I'd just say "Pass" and carry on with my day.
Tell your local headmins to abolish ENFORCE_HUMAN_AUTHORITY, humans are fucking boring. Allow plasmeme CE, Lizard HOS, etc!
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Jonathan Gupta
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by Jonathan Gupta » #617641

Admin wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:29 am"hey wanna be a heretic? Free? No strings attached?"
Mr admin, there are strings attached here very obviously, you bwoinked me out of nowhere please rethink this and continue with your ahelps.
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by Bmon » #617651

this all started because of me and well there really is no point disabling heretics since I don't play manny anymore

there are only a small handful of people who know how to play heretic well enough on manuel to ascend, let alone do it consistently
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by NecromancerAnne » #617660

Bmon wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:18 am this all started because of me and well there really is no point disabling heretics since I don't play manny anymore

there are only a small handful of people who know how to play heretic well enough on manuel to ascend, let alone do it consistently
Don't give yourself so much credit. No single person is to blame for my opinion in particular, and someone will come and replace you when you are gone. The wheels grind on, and the issue remains.
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by Bmon » #617664

NecromancerAnne wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:10 pm
Bmon wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:18 am this all started because of me and well there really is no point disabling heretics since I don't play manny anymore

there are only a small handful of people who know how to play heretic well enough on manuel to ascend, let alone do it consistently
Don't give yourself so much credit. No single person is to blame for my opinion in particular, and someone will come and replace you when you are gone. The wheels grind on, and the issue remains.
I wouldn't touch the config until that happens. As it stands right now, Heretic is a weak antag if not played in a certain style.
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by Mothblocks » #617669

Sounds like kicking the can down the road to me!
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Jonathan Gupta
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by Jonathan Gupta » #617670

Mothblocks wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:35 pm Sounds like kicking the can down the road to me!
what does this mean?
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RaveRadbury
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Re: [MRP] Remove Heretic from the config

Post by RaveRadbury » #617842

We've agreed to remove heretic from MRP for the time being due to numerous conflicts with the RP ruleset as outlined here, we may reconsider this if code changes occur that cause heretics to better mesh with the RP ruleset.

Headmin Votes:
RaveRadbury: Yes
NamelessFairy: Yes
Dragomagol: Yes
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