Is stealing somebody's wheelchair human harm?

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Farquaar
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Is stealing somebody's wheelchair human harm?

Post by Farquaar » #620190

See title. If you steal somebody's wheelchair, and said person is no immediate danger, is the AI obligated to prevent it pursuant to Law 1? I encountered an AI which seemed to be under the impression that this was the case.
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Re: Is stealing somebody's wheelchair human harm?

Post by cSeal » #620191

No
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Jonathan Gupta
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Re: Is stealing somebody's wheelchair human harm?

Post by Jonathan Gupta » #620192

crawl ya damn cripple, just like sun tzu did.
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Re: Is stealing somebody's wheelchair human harm?

Post by Armhulen » #620193

naw. if this was harm then 90% of what peacekeeper borgs do to pacify people would be considered harmful
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Re: Is stealing somebody's wheelchair human harm?

Post by SkeletalElite » #620200

only if you do so in a way such that the person you do it to is in danger as a result
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Re: Is stealing somebody's wheelchair human harm?

Post by Pandarsenic » #620202

Honestly, you should be running afoul of the admins, not the AI, if you're stealing people's wheelchairs as a nonantag.
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Re: Is stealing somebody's wheelchair human harm?

Post by GamerAndYeahMick » #620208

Pandarsenic wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:44 pm Honestly, you should be running afoul of the admins, not the AI, if you're stealing people's wheelchairs as a nonantag.
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Re: Is stealing somebody's wheelchair human harm?

Post by Misdoubtful » #620217

No but I'd be pretty disappointed if someone did that.
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Re: Is stealing somebody's wheelchair human harm?

Post by Farquaar » #620218

Pandarsenic wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:44 pm Honestly, you should be running afoul of the admins, not the AI, if you're stealing people's wheelchairs as a nonantag.
This is a bizzare take.

Why should admins be protecting players from the consequences of their negative quirks? If one doesn’t want to be in situations where they’re crawling without a wheelchair, either get robust or don’t choose to play as a paraplegic during character creation.

Don’t go out of your way to leave yourself open (to IC mischief) and then go crying to the referee when you get hit (with IC mischief).
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Re: Is stealing somebody's wheelchair human harm?

Post by datorangebottle » #620224

Farquaar wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:12 am See title. If you steal somebody's wheelchair, and said person is no immediate danger, is the AI obligated to prevent it pursuant to Law 1? I encountered an AI which seemed to be under the impression that this was the case.
No. If they aren't at current risk of being harmed because they can't get away quickly enough, stealing their wheelchair isn't harmful. That said, a borg probably still shouldn't steal wheelchairs without explicit orders to do so.
Pandarsenic wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:44 pm Honestly, you should be running afoul of the admins, not the AI, if you're stealing people's wheelchairs as a nonantag.
If you elect to have disabled legs and your wheelchair being stolen bothers you enough to cry to the admins, you should probably just turn off the disabled leg trait. if having disabled legs is important to your character, play a different character for a bit. Granted, there are contexts in which adminhelping someone stealing your wheelchair is valid(such as: there is an approaching danger like a singularity, or they've done it an excessive amount in the same shift), but if you sign up to wear a 'kick me' sign, and someone kicks you, there's not a whole lot to be angry at except yourself. Besides, it sounds like a good excuse to hide near their workplace, ambush them, and break their legs with a lead pipe.
Timberpoes wrote: Sat Jul 29, 2023 10:33 pm ImageAnother satisfied Timberpoes voter.Image
Timberpoes wrote: Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:16 pm I highly doubt any other admin on the team would have given you this chance, except maybe Kieth because his brain worms are almost as bad as mine.
Vekter wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 4:45 pm At what point does someone's refusal or failure to improve become malice in and of itself? If you give someone a year to stop shitting on the carpet and they keep doing it but get slightly closer to the bathroom every time and sometimes they get to the toilet before it happens, at what point does it become acceptable to just ask them to go shit in someone else's house?
Timberpoes wrote: Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:00 pm I'm sorry, can we get a real player to resolve this appeal? I don't like this trial player. They can't even set their own name.
Chadley wrote: Thu Apr 27, 2023 4:00 am WENDEZ, cute, cute. I imagine the sleeper activation code when I hear it. That's pretty cool. qB). But I don't like that it doesn't line up to be anything obsurd like WEWLAD. 6/10

SUGMA, nevermind it makes sense now. fuckyou/10
kieth4 wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 2:34 pm If it goes to appeals I will stand as the shield and protect this man's right to shit himself. Heavy is the head that wears the crown.
sinfulbliss wrote: I almost prefer Rave's AI-generated "We cannot accept this appeal at this time. If you would like assistance appealing in the future, please dial 1-800-1984-1488."
Pandarsenic wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:25 pm I think we can all agree that someone throwing a reverse revolver at Zyb as a secret test of character, and Zyb immediately fucking himself with it, is the best thing we all could have received for Christmas this year
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Re: Is stealing somebody's wheelchair human harm?

Post by cacogen » #620236

If the action itself doesn't hurt a human it doesn't count.
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Re: Is stealing somebody's wheelchair human harm?

Post by Konork » #620243

Farquaar wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:30 pm Why should admins be protecting players from the consequences of their negative quirks?
Because of Rule 1?
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Re: Is stealing somebody's wheelchair human harm?

Post by Jonathan Gupta » #620246

Konork wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:48 am
Farquaar wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:30 pm Why should admins be protecting players from the consequences of their negative quirks?
Because of Rule 1?
brain tumor, heavy sleeper, light drinker, blind, mute, deaf, all of thesse can be used in IC mischief and its funny as fuck.

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Re: Is stealing somebody's wheelchair human harm?

Post by datorangebottle » #620248

Konork wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:48 am
Farquaar wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:30 pm Why should admins be protecting players from the consequences of their negative quirks?
Because of Rule 1?
Seems flimsy. If you opt into a trait you should suffer the consequences of having that trait, similarly to how you chose to play a certain race or job(sometimes). It only becomes a rule one issue if the same person is using the trait constantly to fuck with you.
I'm going to take a character I don't play personally as an example, because I typically don't use quirks. Old Johnson is seen frequently on Sybil. He's an old man at the maximum character age, claims to be far older than it, and yes, he has a wheelchair as a security officer / warden. If someone steals his wheelchair once, he can shoot at them with his disabler, arrest them, whatever, if he can catch up. Other officers or bystanders can help him with this issue if they want. But if they make a habit of stealing his wheelchair every time they see Old Johnson, that's when the person is breaking rule one.
Timberpoes wrote: Sat Jul 29, 2023 10:33 pm ImageAnother satisfied Timberpoes voter.Image
Timberpoes wrote: Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:16 pm I highly doubt any other admin on the team would have given you this chance, except maybe Kieth because his brain worms are almost as bad as mine.
Vekter wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 4:45 pm At what point does someone's refusal or failure to improve become malice in and of itself? If you give someone a year to stop shitting on the carpet and they keep doing it but get slightly closer to the bathroom every time and sometimes they get to the toilet before it happens, at what point does it become acceptable to just ask them to go shit in someone else's house?
Timberpoes wrote: Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:00 pm I'm sorry, can we get a real player to resolve this appeal? I don't like this trial player. They can't even set their own name.
Chadley wrote: Thu Apr 27, 2023 4:00 am WENDEZ, cute, cute. I imagine the sleeper activation code when I hear it. That's pretty cool. qB). But I don't like that it doesn't line up to be anything obsurd like WEWLAD. 6/10

SUGMA, nevermind it makes sense now. fuckyou/10
kieth4 wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 2:34 pm If it goes to appeals I will stand as the shield and protect this man's right to shit himself. Heavy is the head that wears the crown.
sinfulbliss wrote: I almost prefer Rave's AI-generated "We cannot accept this appeal at this time. If you would like assistance appealing in the future, please dial 1-800-1984-1488."
Pandarsenic wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:25 pm I think we can all agree that someone throwing a reverse revolver at Zyb as a secret test of character, and Zyb immediately fucking himself with it, is the best thing we all could have received for Christmas this year
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Re: Is stealing somebody's wheelchair human harm?

Post by Pandarsenic » #620255

The consequence of that trait is already plenty of things like surgeons misplacing your wheelchair or people who rescue your corpse forgetting to bring it back with you or not being able to use a fire extinguisher properly or EVERY MAP WITH Z-LEVELS FUCKING YOUR SHIT UP ALL DAY

A person having a wheelchair is not a kick me sign, it's a wheelchair. Stealing it for no reason fits the well-used description of "You have done something that has no benefit to you other than to piss someone else off"

They don't need "random grief" added to the already-present disadvantages of their trait. It's not even funny, it's just tiresome.
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Re: Is stealing somebody's wheelchair human harm?

Post by Jonathan Gupta » #620259

Pandarsenic wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:18 amThey don't need "random grief" added to the already-present disadvantages of their trait. It's not even funny, it's just tiresome.
Im generraly chillin in the kitchen, but when your a cripple I WILL GIVE YOU A FUCKING PIMP YOUR RIDE IN RETURN, for fuckin around with you.
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Re: Is stealing somebody's wheelchair human harm?

Post by GamerAndYeahMick » #620273

Pandarsenic wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:18 am The consequence of that trait is already plenty of things like surgeons misplacing your wheelchair or people who rescue your corpse forgetting to bring it back with you or not being able to use a fire extinguisher properly or EVERY MAP WITH Z-LEVELS FUCKING YOUR SHIT UP ALL DAY

A person having a wheelchair is not a kick me sign, it's a wheelchair. Stealing it for no reason fits the well-used description of "You have done something that has no benefit to you other than to piss someone else off"

They don't need "random grief" added to the already-present disadvantages of their trait. It's not even funny, it's just tiresome.
We aren't gonna start banning people for stealing wheelchairs once, it's an IC issue. That being said if someone was overstepping the line an admin would step in, but any based person would overcome their inability to move without one by creating a mech and blasting the thief back to the stone age
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Re: Is stealing somebody's wheelchair human harm?

Post by kieth4 » #620617

I wait for people to steal the wheelchairs of others so I can valid them :troll:
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Re: Is stealing somebody's wheelchair human harm?

Post by tattle » #621542

No, stealing a wheelchair is not human harm when the human isn't in immediate danger. If you're stealing someone's wheelchair you're being a dick though.

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