Thief and being validhunting Regulations

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Longestarmlonglaw
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Thief and being validhunting Regulations

Post by Longestarmlonglaw » #632526

Thief is an antagonist, with more restrictions in who they can kill, this seems fine and dandy until You have people forming entire lynchmobs to hunt the thief

I believe in most cases treating thieves like traitors, is frankly overkill, and generally upsetting to the thief, they are very restricted in who they can kill, not protected by rule 4.
But everybody else is allowed to hunt the thief like a traitor, Even for something harmless where you catch them stealing organs from monkies, or see them building modsuits and taking them into maint to hoard.

"PERSON IS ORGAN THIEF, KILLLL!!!"

We require a similar rule, where validhunting of thieves is more restricted.
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Timberpoes
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Re: Thief and being validhunting Regulations

Post by Timberpoes » #632527

The ruling from viewtopic.php?f=33&t=30800 technically covers this
Like abductors, obsessed, and brainwashed victims, thieves are not full antagonists and therefore rule 4 does not apply to them. Security should treat thieves as they would any other crew member who is maliciously stealing items. Likewise, thieves should not be using murder as a first resort to get items, and should escalate regularly.
Is this working? Are admins actually enforcing this ruling? Are you ahelping when you die (or see thieves executed) to make sure they were actually valid for execution?

I suspect that this part of the rules will be woefully under-enforced because I assume the default state for prolific thieves is to treat them as antags and execute. I would also suspect that admins on LRP aren't used to telling people they can't kill antags.
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Longestarmlonglaw
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Re: Thief and being validhunting Regulations

Post by Longestarmlonglaw » #632537

I can recount 2 on no admin hours, where I was permaed/ executed as a thief, I did NOT kill anybody, or steal any high risk items, But merely printing cyber organs, abducting people into dorms, Permaed for this next round, Executed in the next *Yes i rolled thief 2 times in a row)

So yes, i belive thief protections are being under-enforced, feel free to close this thread
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Timberpoes
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Re: Thief and being validhunting Regulations

Post by Timberpoes » #632563

There's no need to close the thread.

Rule enforcement and communicating rules to players is a policy issue. A rule that isn't followed and isn't enforced basically doesn't exist.

I think you have a genuine point that is worth double checking to make sure admins and players alike are aware that thieves do not fall under rule 4 - either as antags, or as valids. They follow standard escalation against them by security as ordinary crew.
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carshalash
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Re: Thief and being validhunting Regulations

Post by carshalash » #632602

You roundstart stunned the chief engineer in the bridge to steal his organs.
► Show Spoiler
You also raided the armory for some reason which shows you lied about stealing high-risk shit AND the killing.
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Re: Thief and being validhunting Regulations

Post by Longestarmlonglaw » #632605

They literally escalated to violence first, I only raided the armory after they incited people to try murder me,

And i was the organ thief , i printed some basic cybernetic organs before i steal organs from people,

I later discovered the armory raider was a thief with the nuke disk theft, So i gave it to them, epipened them, and tried to get them to medbay, but the epi healed them out of crit
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Mothblocks
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Re: Thief and being validhunting Regulations

Post by Mothblocks » #632608

@carshalash You have to post your source of logs, this doesn't even give a round ID.
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Re: Thief and being validhunting Regulations

Post by carshalash » #632612

Mothblocks wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:37 am @carshalash You have to post your source of logs, this doesn't even give a round ID.
Manuel round 179400 (Check em)

https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/man ... nd-179400/
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Mothblocks
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Re: Thief and being validhunting Regulations

Post by Mothblocks » #632617

Looks like it was ahelped, but there was no admin online.

That being said, OP are you referring to LRP restrictions here (seeing as you mentioned "very restricted in who they can kill, not protected by rule 4")?
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Re: Thief and being validhunting Regulations

Post by Longestarmlonglaw » #632619

carshalash wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 5:03 am
Mothblocks wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:37 am @carshalash You have to post your source of logs, this doesn't even give a round ID.
Manuel round 179400 (Check em)

https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/man ... nd-179400/
I think your missing the poiny where they escalated against me with violence first, which opted me to raid the armory for protection which allowed me to identity a fellow thief with nuke disk theft

And i repeated that "Im an organ harveter, not a syndicate agent, Which was outing me as a thief,"
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kieth4
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Re: Thief and being validhunting Regulations

Post by kieth4 » #632622

Hello, let me just add that a lot of thief objectives make them valid, regardless of antag status. e.g stealing organs from people, stealing from the armoury, stealing from brig. These are all things that you can and will be round removed for.
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tattle
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Re: Thief and being validhunting Regulations

Post by tattle » #633264

The ruling for thieves already covers how security should be treating thieves. If players are going against this, please ahelp. If you are acting like a full antag would, you are still susceptible to rule 4: Non-antags acting like an antag can be treated as an antag.

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