High Transmission Regen Coma

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Justice12354
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High Transmission Regen Coma

Post by Justice12354 » #636374

Bottom post of the previous page:

Many people dislike Regen Coma. Whether it is because they don't want to suffer its fake death stun during combat, or because they'd rather just heal themselves.

I'll be mainly referring to the former since it's what makes it extremely annoying. Getting in combat with an antagonist, like Nukies, while having Regen Coma is a death sentence since it's just so obvious and the stun is so long. Currently, we don't have any way of choosing when Regen Coma is used, so it's just a trap waiting to be stepped on. With this being said, I believe you should be able to choose when and whether you get Regen Coma. There are suggestions to fix it through code, but, while it's not, I think it'd be wise to get something down on this matter:

Is spreading a high transmission virus with regen coma grief?

I see many people bothered about viruses that have regen coma with high transmission (Airborne or On Contact) specifically and, even if it comes down to a "It depends on the context and intent", it'd be important to raise some awareness to this annoying symptom, in my opinion.
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Re: High Transmission Regen Coma

Post by Imitates-The-Lizards » #636720

Turbonerd wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:20 pm I don't want to get aids. Releasing any disease that can get transmitted to other people should be an instant bwoink+note, then ban if they already have a note.
There are plenty of symptoms that do nothing but benefit, like tissue hydration or mind restoration.
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nianjiilical
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Re: High Transmission Regen Coma

Post by nianjiilical » #636727

i definitely think this is something that needs to be approached from code as opposed to from admin actions, because by all accounts the game openly presents regen coma as a beneficial thing and i wouldnt at all want to bwoink someone for releasing what they think is a beneficial virus because the game openly tells them its a beneficial virus

either change its ingame description/medhud icon to be a little more neutral or alter the way it works to be weaker but less debilitating
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TheFinalPotato
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Re: High Transmission Regen Coma

Post by TheFinalPotato » #636728

Being bad at your job should not be against the rules. Get it together come on.

In general this seems like something that requires context to be handled. Some guy doing it constantly vs just once.
It's also deranged to expect anyone new to the game to understand that Regen Coma must not be released with transmission, and instead may only be given out in such and such way, otherwise you will face a note or ban...

Even outside of that, just die man, it's part of the game. Trust me, the unpredictability is much better this way then without.
Please stop trying to nuter chaos via policy just because it makes you "lose" or whatever.
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Cobby
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Re: High Transmission Regen Coma

Post by Cobby » #636753

If you dont like it you can ask for a vaccine. It's not grief though because we dont consider any other form of non-con beneficial virus spreading grief.

In general you should be pitchforks and torches for any virus with sneeze/high trans in it, good or bad. If you know you have a disease and you arent suspicious about the symptoms then that's on you imo.

Putting it on the books as a "just for warning" is disingenuous to your actual argument which is you want it actionable if they dont heed the warning, which you may as well just say you want it disallowed.
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Re: High Transmission Regen Coma

Post by chocolate_bickie » #636774

The core question set by OP is ''Is spreading a high transmission virus with regen coma grief?''

Regen coma is something with an upside and a downside.

Players might spread the disease with good intent but they still spread a downside without asking players' permission.

If I slipped human mutation toxin into the chefs food as a non-antag in order to 'help' the nonhumans I would rightfully be noted for grief. I doesn't matter that humans are protected by the AI or that I am 'removing the disadvantages of being a lizard', I did it without permission and it made someone else's round worse because I decided I knew better than every other player.
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Tearling
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Re: High Transmission Regen Coma

Post by Tearling » #636870

chocolate_bickie wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 9:20 pm The core question set by OP is ''Is spreading a high transmission virus with regen coma grief?''

Regen coma is something with an upside and a downside.

Players might spread the disease with good intent but they still spread a downside without asking players' permission.

If I slipped human mutation toxin into the chefs food as a non-antag in order to 'help' the nonhumans I would rightfully be noted for grief. I doesn't matter that humans are protected by the AI or that I am 'removing the disadvantages of being a lizard', I did it without permission and it made someone else's round worse because I decided I knew better than every other player.
Using that same analogy EVERY beneficial virus with high transmission can be considered grief. Because giving someone self-resp is exactly like slipping human toxin into food, according to you. This is, of course, not a very good analogy for this very reason. But if we wanted to go further with this line of logic we could equate ANY situation that doesn't have your consent as grief. An example:
"Cargo took my bounty cube after I put it on the cargo table and turned it in too fast! I didn't tell them to turn it in yet, I wanted to wait until AFTER the crab-17 bot was gone, now I've lost more money. Cargo is griefing me"
Or maybe:
"The assistant helped me get up after I was slipped by the clown, causing my mood to go down because my character doesn't like getting touched! The assistant is griefing me. Plus, what if the assistant had a virus? Unwanted assistance is grief."
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Timberpoes wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:41 am From my perspective, players just want to genuinely be listened to. And I don't mean it condescendingly, but to genuinely have their say and for admins to listen, process it and reply. Even if you don't give two shits about what the player is saying, even if you disagree with every part of what they say, players are less likely to leave an ahelp pissed off if you've listened to them and given a reply that directly addresses what they've told you.
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Re: High Transmission Regen Coma

Post by chocolate_bickie » #636928

Tearling wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 1:31 pm "Cargo took my bounty cube after I put it on the cargo table and turned it in too fast! I didn't tell them to turn it in yet, I wanted to wait until AFTER the crab-17 bot was gone, now I've lost more money. Cargo is griefing me"
If you put it on the table you are accepting you no longer have any control over what happens to the cube.
Tearling wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 1:31 pm Or maybe:
"The assistant helped me get up after I was slipped by the clown, causing my mood to go down because my character doesn't like getting touched! The assistant is griefing me. Plus, what if the assistant had a virus? Unwanted assistance is grief."
If you choose the bad touch trait and someone touches you, it is not grief. If they keep touching you because they know you bad bad touch, they are griefing you.

The difference is that you as the player have a choice on taking the risk of the downside with the upside.

Spreading high transmission regen coma completely removes your ability to choose if regen coma is an acceptable risk for its reward.

Choosing whether or not to give cargo your cube before activating crab-17 is a risk-reward choice you can make.

Choosing to take bad touch knowing the risk that someone might unknowingly give you a negative moodlet is a risk you take for the reward of a positive trait.
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Tearling
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Re: High Transmission Regen Coma

Post by Tearling » #636940

chocolate_bickie wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 5:45 pm Choosing to take bad touch knowing the risk that someone might unknowingly give you a negative moodlet is a risk you take for the reward of a positive trait.
Irrelevant. By that same logic you can say that you shouldn't leave your department, because if you do you're choosing to leave knowing the risk you might catch a high transmission bad virus.
Seriously we can go down this line of bad logic for hours and you wouldn't be any closer because you're essentially arguing that any positive action that could have a negative downside is bad if it's done without permission.

Push someone away from oncoming Tram? Grief because you slowed their movement down from pushing them
Repair a broken wall? Grief because someone wanted to be able to look into maintenance from, lets say, medical.
Repair a broken wire? Grief because it turns out someone was removing a few lights and returning power just caused them to accidentally burn themselves.
Clean up a bloodspot on the ground? Grief because it turns out it was relevant to an ongoing security case.
Make drinks? Grief because a new player didn't know they could drink too much causing their liver to fail
An example someone else used: What if you're doing your job as medical, someone comes in with broken as fuck lungs, and you put a cybernetic in them? That's grief according to you because cybernetics can be EMP'd.

Also, do you think high transmission self-resp is fine? As stated earlier in the thread self-resp can be pretty bad for doctors. If you're saying high transmission self-resp is grief I don't think we can have an honest conversation.
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Timberpoes wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:41 am From my perspective, players just want to genuinely be listened to. And I don't mean it condescendingly, but to genuinely have their say and for admins to listen, process it and reply. Even if you don't give two shits about what the player is saying, even if you disagree with every part of what they say, players are less likely to leave an ahelp pissed off if you've listened to them and given a reply that directly addresses what they've told you.
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Re: High Transmission Regen Coma

Post by terranaut » #636947

10. Losing is part of the game.

Your character will frequently die, sometimes without even a possibility of avoiding it. Events will often be out of your control. No matter how good or prepared you are, sometimes you just lose.

babying retards who don't understand this is a game and somehow feel deeply violated because their spacemen went horizontal is the reason for the majority of degradation in terms of game quality over the past years
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Re: High Transmission Regen Coma

Post by chocolate_bickie » #636963

Tearling wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 6:40 pm snip
I don't disagree with you but what is the solution to viros spamming high transmission viruses with downsides?

Admins won't let you lynch the viro or threaten them with harm unless they make a cure.

Given that there is no IC solution the only way forward is OOC solutions, which is what this policy discussion is about.

Tldr: Either it's grief and therefore an admin issue, or an IC issue and makes the viro subject to fair play

EDIT: I just re-read Sylphet's comment.
Sylphet wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 5:54 pm
chocolate_bickie wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:37 am This tbh. Any viro that spreads a virus to people, good or bad, without consent, is perfectly valid.
This is completely false. If you outright kill a viro for releasing a good virus just because you don't like its symptom, you will be banned for it. Use your words in this roleplaying game to get a vaccine from them. If they don't give you one, then you can either ask literally any other medstaff, or follow escalation policy and beat one out of them.
Correction to what I said, you can harm the viro if they don't give you a cure.

The problem is the first you learn you have regen coma is generally when you hit 30 health and it kills you.
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Re: High Transmission Regen Coma

Post by Imitates-The-Lizards » #637006

chocolate_bickie wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 9:28 pm
Tearling wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 6:40 pm snip
Sylphet wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 5:54 pm
chocolate_bickie wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:37 am This tbh. Any viro that spreads a virus to people, good or bad, without consent, is perfectly valid.
This is completely false. If you outright kill a viro for releasing a good virus just because you don't like its symptom, you will be banned for it. Use your words in this roleplaying game to get a vaccine from them. If they don't give you one, then you can either ask literally any other medstaff, or follow escalation policy and beat one out of them.
Correction to what I said, you can harm the viro if they don't give you a cure.

The problem is the first you learn you have regen coma is generally when you hit 30 health and it kills you.
This is bullshit though. If a virologist released a regen coma virus that also had non-neutered sneezing to help spread the virus and also to make it more visible to you that you had a virus, you would consider that griefing as well! I certainly would, and I always see newbie virologists get called to be lynched for doing this because they think "Oh I'll just leave coughing/sneezing un-neutered to help spread my good virus :)".
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Re: High Transmission Regen Coma

Post by Yulice » #637013

TheFinalPotato wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 9:31 am Being bad at your job should not be against the rules. Get it together come on.
Isn't this just Ordinance right now? The biggest thing I've seen with Ordinance has been people blow it the fuck up, get bwoinked, and then admins go "don't touch it again until you've read the wiki or done it on a private server"
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Re: High Transmission Regen Coma

Post by TheFinalPotato » #637142

Yulice wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 8:31 am
TheFinalPotato wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 9:31 am Being bad at your job should not be against the rules. Get it together come on.
Isn't this just Ordinance right now? The biggest thing I've seen with Ordinance has been people blow it the fuck up, get bwoinked, and then admins go "don't touch it again until you've read the wiki or done it on a private server"
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Re: High Transmission Regen Coma

Post by mrmelbert » #637290

Virology releasing a regen coma virus is not grief. Regenerative Coma being "bad" is a code / design issue.

If you have an issue with a virus released by the Virologist, you can ask for a cure or a vaccine.
If the virologist actively refuses to cooperate with you, it can be solved ICly.

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