(Crazy idea Tuesday)- Remove the antag prevention on the lower levels of security

[The Wrench]

I don’t really have a good reason other than it breaks that trust in Security granted by metaprotections. More paranoia in a paranoid based game is good yo.

[Stickymayhem]

This idea is too good for the community to ever accept it.

[chocolate_bickie]

Could be a fun station trait, security starts without mindshields and can be antags.

[Yulice]

If this ever happened I would likely purposefully interrupt every arrest

[toemas]

this and also remove security metaprotections so i can just kill them if they try to arrest me

[Vekter]

I feel like this could be interesting in a higher RP server, but it'd never actually fly here.

[Itseasytosee2me]

If only

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

I approve, if only because I want to see a secoff who turns out to be a traitor just pulling out a fucking revolver and shooting the greyshits who try to interrupt every single fucking arrest on Sybil.

[terranaut]

make it a config option and then run it on one of the servers for a month or two to show people that it's actually pretty cool

[Fatal]

Anyone who suggests this never played with traitor sec before

It could work on MRP but on the LRP servers? Murderboning security was never fun (although this is back when stun batons were 1 hit gg and tasers existed), and then you have even more assistants and fuckwit crew interfering with security doing their jobs because they "could" be a traitor

[The Wrench]

Greytiders already fuck with security, so by definition it doesn’t matter if they’re able to roll antag or not. Shitters will shit regardless and setting up hugbox always trustworthy teams are lame. If lower security officers start murderboning, that’s what security is for. Hos actually has to lead his team, like any other head of staff. Security shouldn’t be an automatic validhunting machine, or a deathsquad. They are mall cops, and should be treated as such

[Fatal]

Greytiders already fuck with security, so by definition it doesn’t matter if they’re able to roll antag or not. Shitters will shit regardless and setting up hugbox always trustworthy teams are lame. If lower security officers start murderboning, that’s what security is for. Hos actually has to lead his team, like any other head of staff. Security shouldn’t be an automatic validhunting machine, or a deathsquad. They are mall cops, and should be treated as such

And greytiders fucking with security is one of the biggest issues I personally have to deal with on Terry, giving people an actual excuse to do so is making admins jobs harder and nobody is going to want to play security if people can fuck with them in this manner without any punishment

Sec not being antag is something we've had for a long time now, and you honestly don't want to go back to them being able to roll it

[The Wrench]

The simple answer is, ban the greyshits, they are going to grief security regardless of if they can roll antagonist or not. Rule 12 exists now, so we can start to bring back the fun features and rulings from the past that allow more ingame freedom.

[sinfulbliss]

Is this even a config? If it’s not then you’re takin advantage of the headmin headcoder cycle bro.

If it is a config then my god that would be one of the worst ideas of all time. If sec could be antags just like normal crew then you should resist every arrest, treat being stunned like an attempt on your life (as it often is for nonsec), retaliate with lethal force, all under the guise they are possible antags. It’d pretty much make sec unplayable.

[Cobby]

It would be much less of an issue if people didn’t shut off brain anytime someone red did something.

I had a recent experience where I supposedly didn’t open a door for someone as MD so instead of explaining the issue they demanded I put myself in cuffs and lef them “take me to brig” when I didn’t do anything to my knowledge.

This culminated into me accidentally closing blast doors on an officer who was also trying to wordlessly stun me which would have absolutely ruined my round all because they wanted to exert their power and I could do fuck all had the hos not be a man of reason.

Even with security meta protections people should realize that is only true for those that start as security, there can be people who pretend to be these individuals and even morph to be exactly like them. The only antag that CANT larp as them is rev because a mindshield makes them lose antag, and that’s assuming you as a nonsec can see who is and isn’t mindshielded. It’s super annoying to deal with the entitlement of “i can’t be antag so you should just trust me bro” especially when people don’t even get it after the fact.

[Mothblocks]

Is this even a config? If it’s not then you’re takin advantage of the headmin headcoder cycle bro.

yeah

[sinfulbliss]

Even with security meta protections people should realize that is only true for those that start as security, there can be people who pretend to be these individuals and even morph to be exactly like them. The only antag that CANT larp as them is rev because a mindshield makes them lose antag, and that’s assuming you as a nonsec can see who is and isn’t mindshielded. It’s super annoying to deal with the entitlement of “i can’t be antag so you should just trust me bro” especially when people don’t even get it after the fact.

It is quite difficult to become a mindshielded bad guy, if you get to the point where you can break into armory for shields and unlock them with a stolen sec ID, sec is probably nonexistent or defunct anyway. If they're not then you deserve it anyway for that work.

Metaprotections aren't just "can't be antag," they go way deeper than that. The "can't be antag" part is just a necessary prerequisite for the real OOC protections, which allow you to make arrests and enforce "spacelaw" without people being able to beat the shit out of you for it. You remove the metaprotections and there's nothing stopping you from just annihilating a seccie for trying to baton you, like you'd be able to do against normal crew. Sec would just become loot pinatas for doing their job.

[Cobby]

"Its quite difficult" is not synonymous to "its not possible".

As a player you have full right to defend yourself from an officer harassing you for reasons beyond your explanation. If you didnt do something, then its not a valid arrest, therefore you can already escalate appropriately.

[NoxVS]

"Its quite difficult" is not synonymous to "its not possible".

As a player you have full right to defend yourself from an officer harassing you for reasons beyond your explanation. If you didnt do something, then its not a valid arrest, therefore you can already escalate appropriately.

A security officer harasses you for an unjustified reason
You retaliate and defend yourself against them
The rest of security is now after you for assault of an officer

[CDranzer]

Sure, let's give an antagonist a full security getup while also making security's job harder by removing their implicit authority.
I see no way this could end catastrophically for absolutely fucking everybody.

[The Wrench]

Again they are not a death squad and should not trust each other all the time. The whole reason Security takes each others back all the time now is because they can’t be antagonist normally

[cacogen]

We had antagonist security back in the day and it didn't work and it was removed. One of the reasons was how easy it was to arrest people and then disappear them in the brig never to return, without raising suspicion. Another was that it then opened security up to being fucked with and having their arrests interfered with, because it could always be an antagonist trying to kill their target.

[Cobby]

"Its quite difficult" is not synonymous to "its not possible".

As a player you have full right to defend yourself from an officer harassing you for reasons beyond your explanation. If you didnt do something, then its not a valid arrest, therefore you can already escalate appropriately.

A security officer harasses you for an unjustified reason
You retaliate and defend yourself against them
The rest of security is now after you for assault of an officer

I consider it an extent of being wrongfully accused

[Pandarsenic]

I miss back when the game was unbalanced enough that you could just robust all of security, do them all up in their own cuffs, and lecture them.

[Mothblocks]

We're not interested in this.