/tg/Station 13

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 11:03 pmThis isn't about calling the shuttle for no reason, but about calling the shuttle without providing the reason, and it's reaching NRP levels at this point.

Mothblocks wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:56 am Can you provide a more articulate reason, especially why "It's time to go home" is NRP? You explain what happens but not necessarily why it needs to go so far as administrative action (which means using up admins time, and necessitates that it eventually be a ban worthy offense)

Mothblocks wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:56 am Can you provide a more articulate reason, especially why "It's time to go home" is NRP? You explain what happens but not necessarily why it needs to go so far as administrative action (which means using up admins time, and necessitates that it eventually be a ban worthy offense)

blackdav123 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:18 am everyone hates when admins recall the shuttle an hour and a half into the round because "erm, you guys didnt build the dna vault yet "

if you want to force the crew to do the objective make it for a cooler reason

i remember one round we got an announcement that "a large amount of meteors will be coming towards your station in 45 minutes, constructing the meteor shield is advised" and it was a fun mini event that made us do the objective without arbitrarily forcing us

blackdav123 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:18 am everyone hates when admins recall the shuttle an hour and a half into the round because "erm, you guys didnt build the dna vault yet "

if you want to force the crew to do the objective make it for a cooler reason

i remember one round we got an announcement that "a large amount of meteors will be coming towards your station in 45 minutes, constructing the meteor shield is advised" and it was a fun mini event that made us do the objective without arbitrarily forcing us

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:42 pm In the event things are really breaking - SM exploded, arrivals is spaced, comms are down - then saying just "shit's fucked" should be enough on LRP. On Manuel it would make more sense to phrase it as a note to Centcom on why you need an emergency shuttle, but on LRP I see no reason for requiring it if everyone would be in clear agreement it's time to call.

However if it's been a long shift and you do a shuttle call vote, and get a majority of "yes," that's also a valid reason, albeit not one that has an immediately obvious reason you could write down. "People are bored and want to leave" sounds worse than just saying "it is time to depart."

Helios wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:08 pm Here's how I would suggest coding it. Basically the shuttle call will not be interrupted, instead an announcement will play saying that Centcomm wasn't too happy with the shuttle call justification, the station is now classified as "high-risk", and all future shuttle calls are manually approved by Centcomm. Saying yes this reason is good enough, or a secure communication printed out at the various comm consoles that no, that reason wasn't good enough try again later. Obviously this could break the game if no admins are on to approve/deny the requests, and would cause a softlock.

RaveRadbury wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 4:00 pm I'll CC recall if the reason is especially poor. Some players will assume that I have an event in mind, even when the notice that gets printed is some IC version of "come up with a better reason"

This game is all about corporate dystopia and that means properly filling out emergency shuttle request paperwork.

Also: We still call this thing the Emergency Shuttle, so if we want to move away from it needing to be an emergency we should consider addressing the nomenclature we're using.

TypicalRig wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 10:52 am Heavily agree, but for another reason not listed. Bored calling without any input from the other players is already shunned upon, but the issue with the poorly written reasons is that even if there is a legitimate threat, it's impossible for every player to know every situation that's going on in the station. I've had shifts where I'm an antag quietly setting up and getting ready to go loud, and all I see is "time to go", "I'm bored", "baddies all dead" etcetc. So I ahelp thinking it's just a person rerolling for antag, only to get told by admins "Actually it's pretty justified because x, y, and z" which I obviously couldn't have known since the caller made no effort to communicate. There are some obvious exceptions like single caps being launched everywhere or other terms of urgent shit is fucked, but if they have an opportunity to actually type out their thoughts, it should be mandatory to. Not because not doing so is NRP, but more so because it's risking wasting both player time and administrative time over an issue that never should've arose. I've also had situations where the admins go "Well, I'd recall due to the badly written reason, but there's [threats that I'm aware of, but that the caller is likely not]" and they wouldn't know this without log diving or messaging the caller, since the caller opted for the lazy way. A properly written reason provides insight to both the players and the admins why this is happening, if it's justified, if they're abusing authority, etc.

So I'm actually for two changes being made:
1. Mandatory shuttle call explanations minus IMMEDIATE serious threats that would justify them not having a lot of time to call. An example being a zombie infestation and them spamming nonsense when they are in the process of breaking into the bridge. And actually note for when this happens since the same people keep doing it.
2. Non-antags shouldn't be allowed to INTENTIONALLY lie about the call reason and in the event that they call over a threat that didn't exist/was already fixed and they simply didn't bother to check if it was true, can be punished for it by admins. Examples such as hull breaches that were breached that they know they were breached. Saying the station is fucked when everywhere is intact. The justification for this is that the explanation is meant to provide both players and admins insight on to why their round is ending and that purposely fudging it is nothing short of malicious. One can argue they can call over misinformation and that that's part of the game, but most problems worth calling for can easily be confirmed with a camera check or suit sensor check.

TheFinalPotato wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 8:14 pmIn addition to this, shuttle calls aren't always emergencies. They're fluffed that way, but they serve as a way for players to go "nope, I'm out"
Of course I want them to be emergencies, but they are not always, and forcing them to be will just place you in the situation you'd get into on lowpop manuel like 2 years ago, where the round was "over" but none could come up with an IC reason to leave, so none left. "Winning" the game, and not being able to make a new story, that, that's torture.

TheFinalPotato wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 8:14 pm

TypicalRig wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 10:52 am Heavily agree, but for another reason not listed. Bored calling without any input from the other players is already shunned upon, but the issue with the poorly written reasons is that even if there is a legitimate threat, it's impossible for every player to know every situation that's going on in the station. I've had shifts where I'm an antag quietly setting up and getting ready to go loud, and all I see is "time to go", "I'm bored", "baddies all dead" etcetc. So I ahelp thinking it's just a person rerolling for antag, only to get told by admins "Actually it's pretty justified because x, y, and z" which I obviously couldn't have known since the caller made no effort to communicate. There are some obvious exceptions like single caps being launched everywhere or other terms of urgent shit is fucked, but if they have an opportunity to actually type out their thoughts, it should be mandatory to. Not because not doing so is NRP, but more so because it's risking wasting both player time and administrative time over an issue that never should've arose. I've also had situations where the admins go "Well, I'd recall due to the badly written reason, but there's [threats that I'm aware of, but that the caller is likely not]" and they wouldn't know this without log diving or messaging the caller, since the caller opted for the lazy way. A properly written reason provides insight to both the players and the admins why this is happening, if it's justified, if they're abusing authority, etc.

So I'm actually for two changes being made:
1. Mandatory shuttle call explanations minus IMMEDIATE serious threats that would justify them not having a lot of time to call. An example being a zombie infestation and them spamming nonsense when they are in the process of breaking into the bridge. And actually note for when this happens since the same people keep doing it.
2. Non-antags shouldn't be allowed to INTENTIONALLY lie about the call reason and in the event that they call over a threat that didn't exist/was already fixed and they simply didn't bother to check if it was true, can be punished for it by admins. Examples such as hull breaches that were breached that they know they were breached. Saying the station is fucked when everywhere is intact. The justification for this is that the explanation is meant to provide both players and admins insight on to why their round is ending and that purposely fudging it is nothing short of malicious. One can argue they can call over misinformation and that that's part of the game, but most problems worth calling for can easily be confirmed with a camera check or suit sensor check.

Half of this is code changes, and so completely impossible to ask the headmins as headmins to do.
The other half seems overly strict, and would not always be possible to ensure. Speaking personally it'd drive me away from ever playing head of staff if I risked being banned if my shuttle call reason was not perfectly true.

In addition to this, shuttle calls aren't always emergencies. They're fluffed that way, but they serve as a way for players to go "nope, I'm out"
Of course I want them to be emergencies, but they are not always, and forcing them to be will just place you in the situation you'd get into on lowpop manuel like 2 years ago, where the round was "over" but none could come up with an IC reason to leave, so none left. "Winning" the game, and not being able to make a new story, that, that's torture.

Helios wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:08 pm Here's how I would suggest coding it. Basically the shuttle call will not be interrupted, instead an announcement will play saying that Centcomm wasn't too happy with the shuttle call justification, the station is now classified as "high-risk", and all future shuttle calls are manually approved by Centcomm. Saying yes this reason is good enough, or a secure communication printed out at the various comm consoles that no, that reason wasn't good enough try again later. Obviously this could break the game if no admins are on to approve/deny the requests, and would cause a softlock.