Is healing people by monkifying them and then using mutadone an exploit?

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Hoolny
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Is healing people by monkifying them and then using mutadone an exploit?

Post by Hoolny » #669353

Came around this new healing technique and want to know if its an exploit or not if it is then it should be code fixed but their dosent seem to be any issues about it it works by monkifying people which changes every cell in their body healing both brute and burn and also fixing organs but does not change chemicals within restore blood or heal toxin damage it seems pretty balanced so I don't think it is but I'm not sure
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Re: Is healing people by monkifying them and then using mutadone an exploit?

Post by Pandarsenic » #669355

It's not exactly convenient to monkey then unmonkey someone so I figure it's fine unless it becomes so prevalent that it's disruptive to normal medical play.
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Re: Is healing people by monkifying them and then using mutadone an exploit?

Post by Drag » #669357

If you are min-maxing healing and stealing job content from doctors (assuming you are a geneticist while doing this) without asking that's absolutely a rule 12 issue. The question is: Is this an intended game mechanic or not? I don't think an offshoot of an aheal is intended. So yes, exploit.

Edit: Also turning people into monkeys without consent can be seen as antagonistic, so that also toes into rule 1 since you're forcefully converting people's species.
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Re: Is healing people by monkifying them and then using mutadone an exploit?

Post by iamgoofball » #669358

monkeyification shouldn't be healing people
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Re: Is healing people by monkifying them and then using mutadone an exploit?

Post by Farquaar » #669361

iamgoofball wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:32 am monkeyification shouldn't be healing people
Why not? It makes sense from a lore perspective, seeing as your entire cellular makeup is being changed.
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Re: Is healing people by monkifying them and then using mutadone an exploit?

Post by Pandarsenic » #669363

Drag wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:16 am If you are min-maxing healing and stealing job content from doctors (assuming you are a geneticist while doing this) without asking that's absolutely a rule 12 issue. The question is: Is this an intended game mechanic or not? I don't think an offshoot of an aheal is intended. So yes, exploit.

Edit: Also turning people into monkeys without consent can be seen as antagonistic, so that also toes into rule 1 since you're forcefully converting people's species.
Yeah let me clarify, I don't care if doctors think it's funny to heal people this way as long as they're prepared for the consequences. If you're anyone else healing people other than yourself this way, why are you like this?

(If you're healing yourself this way you are probably powergaming out of your goddamn gourd and need to be slapped)
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Re: Is healing people by monkifying them and then using mutadone an exploit?

Post by NecromancerAnne » #669368

Maybe you should utilize our githubs issue tracker instead of trying to appeal to policy, whose opinion means nothing on the matter.
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Re: Is healing people by monkifying them and then using mutadone an exploit?

Post by Turbonerd » #669376

This happens with any species change. It is most definitely an exploit, without a doubt.
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Re: Is healing people by monkifying them and then using mutadone an exploit?

Post by sinfulbliss » #669380

A better question is what qualifies as an actionable exploit over just an oversight that confers a benefit. Keep in mind tactical resting, which everyone used to dodge projectiles, was actually an oversight and wasn't intended, but became part of the game all the same.

If it doesn't harm anyone and isn't used to "get past" some coded limitation/nerf, it's hard to see why it would be something worth considering an actionable exploit (ling MMI check is very different from something like this).
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Re: Is healing people by monkifying them and then using mutadone an exploit?

Post by iamgoofball » #669382

Keep in mind tactical resting, which everyone used to dodge projectiles, was actually an oversight and wasn't intended, but became part of the game all the same.
we removed the ability for people to spam rest to dodge projectiles mid-combat because that was an exploit

set_species() doing a full heal is quite literally not intended behavior, and admins should ban people for using monkeyhumanizing to heal people
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Re: Is healing people by monkifying them and then using mutadone an exploit?

Post by sinfulbliss » #669388

iamgoofball wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:22 pm
Keep in mind tactical resting, which everyone used to dodge projectiles, was actually an oversight and wasn't intended, but became part of the game all the same.
we removed the ability for people to spam rest to dodge projectiles mid-combat because that was an exploit

set_species() doing a full heal is quite literally not intended behavior, and admins should ban people for using monkeyhumanizing to heal people
In that case admins should've banned the entire playerbase for resting to dodge projectiles back when the feature bug existed (over 2 years I think). I don't see your rationale here.
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Re: Is healing people by monkifying them and then using mutadone an exploit?

Post by wesoda25 » #669392

People abusing monkefication to heal is absolutely hilarious. I'm imagining an assistant running a "natural healing" service or something and you just walk in, lay down, and get turned into a monkey. And maybe turned back. I motion for headmins to ignore this thread until it is eventually patched!
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Re: Is healing people by monkifying them and then using mutadone an exploit?

Post by CPTANT » #669407

Code issue.
Timberpoes wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: Is healing people by monkifying them and then using mutadone an exploit?

Post by mrmelbert » #669430

Fairly certain this is a side effect from the fact that we re-create every limb when species changes, sending all damage to the void, which is definitely an oversight
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Re: Is healing people by monkifying them and then using mutadone an exploit?

Post by vect0r » #669450

Drag wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:16 am If you are min-maxing healing and stealing job content from doctors (assuming you are a geneticist while doing this) without asking that's absolutely a rule 12 issue. The question is: Is this an intended game mechanic or not? I don't think an offshoot of an aheal is intended. So yes, exploit.

Edit: Also turning people into monkeys without consent can be seen as antagonistic, so that also toes into rule 1 since you're forcefully converting people's species.
How is healing people with monkeys/stealing job content from doctors "Play-to-win gameplay"?
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Re: Is healing people by monkifying them and then using mutadone an exploit?

Post by sinfulbliss » #669465

vect0r wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:26 pm
Drag wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:16 am If you are min-maxing healing and stealing job content from doctors (assuming you are a geneticist while doing this) without asking that's absolutely a rule 12 issue. The question is: Is this an intended game mechanic or not? I don't think an offshoot of an aheal is intended. So yes, exploit.

Edit: Also turning people into monkeys without consent can be seen as antagonistic, so that also toes into rule 1 since you're forcefully converting people's species.
How is healing people with monkeys/stealing job content from doctors "Play-to-win gameplay"?
Yeah what. This seems like a very odd attempt at imposing the MRP “stay-in-your-lane” ruleset onto LRP servers through rule 12. Which definitely isn’t what it’s for.
mrmelbert wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:54 pm Fairly certain this is a side effect from the fact that we re-create every limb when species changes, sending all damage to the void, which is definitely an oversight
This is true. In fact if you for instance, use the miner’s cursed katana repeatedly, wounding your arms until they fall off, your damage will rapidly increase until the point the limb pops off, at which point the damage from it goes away (since you don’t have an arm to be damaged).
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Re: Is healing people by monkifying them and then using mutadone an exploit?

Post by Armhulen » #669466

mrmelbert wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:54 pm Fairly certain this is a side effect from the fact that we re-create every limb when species changes, sending all damage to the void, which is definitely an oversight
yeah you need to transfer old damage over
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Re: Is healing people by monkifying them and then using mutadone an exploit?

Post by CPTANT » #669482

Armhulen wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:50 pm
mrmelbert wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:54 pm Fairly certain this is a side effect from the fact that we re-create every limb when species changes, sending all damage to the void, which is definitely an oversight
yeah you need to transfer old damage over
This is not trivial when the new species doesn't have the same organs.
Timberpoes wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: Is healing people by monkifying them and then using mutadone an exploit?

Post by mrmelbert » #669485

CPTANT wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:42 pm
This is not trivial when the new species doesn't have the same organs.
Well there's already code to transfer organ damage over. In fact if it's not working that's straight up a bug.

As for bodyparts, that's trivially easy. Arm to arm, leg to leg. There's just nothing for that.
I think this arose as a consequence of the refactor that made all species limbs their own subtypes but I'm not confident in that and don't want egg on my face if I'm wrong.
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Re: Is healing people by monkifying them and then using mutadone an exploit?

Post by Shadowflame909 » #669703

This is a soulful bug that could only exist from the unethical future of science.

Should be kept but have a 50% chance of doubling whatever damage you had prior (that's what you get for messing with a side effect of wacky science of course!)
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Re: Is healing people by monkifying them and then using mutadone an exploit?

Post by MooCow12 » #669818

Also want to add this has become a part of the changeling meta since it also wipes your stamina damage, 10000000x better use of chemicals to counter stam combat than using that weird adrenaline that doesnt do anything. (atleast from what ive seen)

Its funny watching someone baton a human and then that human spam morphs into a monkey and back sometimes getting a hit off in between transformations.
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Re: Is healing people by monkifying them and then using mutadone an exploit?

Post by CPTANT » #669825

It's still dumb by the way that the way to go to kill changelings is with stuns instead of lethals. Adrenaline sacks were unnecessarily nerfed when everything was moved to stamina.
Timberpoes wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: Is healing people by monkifying them and then using mutadone an exploit?

Post by Imitates-The-Lizards » #670067

If this heals 3rd degree burns then don't touch it, because healing third degree burns is buggy as fuck, and basically never works with the intended flesh debriding + ointment surgery
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Re: Is healing people by monkifying them and then using mutadone an exploit?

Post by MooCow12 » #670076

Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:18 pm If this heals 3rd degree burns then don't touch it, because healing third degree burns is buggy as fuck, and basically never works with the intended flesh debriding + ointment surgery
The only way that works ive found is either alot of miner`s salve or pyroxadone/cryoxadone. (aside from species changing)
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Re: Is healing people by monkifying them and then using mutadone an exploit?

Post by iwishforducks » #670077

code issue why is this in policy discussion
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Re: Is healing people by monkifying them and then using mutadone an exploit?

Post by Imitates-The-Lizards » #670155

iwishforducks wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:41 pm code issue why is this in policy discussion
It's relevant to the discussion. If there's something broken in the game that doesn't work, in this case fixing 3rd degree burns, but it can be fixed by using an unintended method like monkifying and de-mutating someone, should the policy really be to bwoink and ban people for using the unintended method that actually works?
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Re: Is healing people by monkifying them and then using mutadone an exploit?

Post by CMDR_Gungnir » #670177

iwishforducks wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:41 pm code issue why is this in policy discussion
It's a good question to have here because it's a question of "Am I allowed to do this, or will doing this get me banned?"
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Re: Is healing people by monkifying them and then using mutadone an exploit?

Post by iwishforducks » #670194

it is very clearly an exploit. but medical is no stranger to exploits. as long as you’re not using it constantly and just ruining the game for everyone I don’t see why it’s actionable. report the issue on github and then move on. if the chance arises to show someone the cool trick ingame then sure go for it. put fire under coders to actually fix it if they’re not fixing it. just make sure it never gets to the point where rule 12 has to be invoked.
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Re: Is healing people by monkifying them and then using mutadone an exploit?

Post by kieth4 » #681656

kieth4:

As with all other bugs, you're free to use it- AT YOUR OWN RISK don't be surprised if admins decide it's unhealthy and tell you to stop.

Misdoubtful:

This is a code issue, do it at your own risk

Timber:

1.Code issue.

2. Don't go out of your way to ruin other players' job mechanics by optimising the fun out of their department unless requested by them.
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