Theft as an IC issue, Why is this ok?

[Falamazeer]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Recently I've been hearing about a lot of insane levels of theft being labeled as an IC Incident, Before starting my argument I'd like to cite specifics.

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=3603 Wherein a non-antag assistant raided and fully looted the armory, then dunked me to hell and back, stripped me down to nothing, and got away with it as an IC incident.

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3642 This one, Thatslyfox (Jim Otis station engineer) steals the CEs hardsuit while he's trying to set shit up, wanders off, and then gives it to a mime. IC incident, Despite him being his direct head.

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 100#p88832 Where I'm told that basically, if I decide to loot the clown as a security officer for not even one fucking reason while he's arrested, that's A-ok.


What If I were to bust into surgery as a non antag and steal all the tools I can get my greedy douchey little hotdog fingers on? then take the defib for kicks? Under current policy, I'm just a dick, but not a bannable one. By allowing truly disgusting acts of looting we're protecting one type of player, shitheads, I'm not saying ban every fucker who rushes into EVA for a space suit, but taking away everything about someones job that makes that job special, or even possible, is a clear rule 1 violation and should be treated as such.

After a certain point, banditry crosses the line, and that's clearly after you've wrecked a person so far that he cannon meaningfully re-enter the round in the role he started in.

[NikNakFlak]

The killing and then fighting back rule was terrible which is why it was removed and admins just started giving out short bans for WGW or just giving WGW readers brain damage.

[Falamazeer]

Your rough draft is shit, No offense, but it's like you didn't even try, This further reinforces exactly what I was pointing out as the problem.
I can kill anyone I want so long as I steal something important to them first. then I just wait for them to react.

And ahelping because ' he stoled my shoes' isn't gonna get you very far, so people will naturally continue to try to handle it IC.

It's almost like this has been exactly the problem the entire time.

[Stickymayhem]

Theft is always an IC issue unless it's completely insane: "Lol I stole the entire armory and space it" or repeated across multiple rounds "Lol let me roll mime and take the id every round there's no Captain as non-antag"

If you overreact and murder someone for taking your shoes or metal or something and it isn't in self-defence or to defend your department in the moment, then it becomes OOC and you're the idiot.

If you treat them like shit in return like shoving them in a locker or something that's a reasonable response.

If they stole something super valuable from you, like the Captain's spare or space suit from the Captain, the hand tele from the Captain or RD, the HoS' personal gun, basically anything that is both important and a bad idea for a random shithead to have, then fuck em up.

This is honestly just a really basic continuation of the idea that you escalate reasonably in almost all situations. Use a reasoned amount of retaliation in response to what they did. I'm sick of policies that basically result in IF {GREY_SHITSTAIN var_STOLEMYSHOES = 1 then VALID = TRUE} levels of concrete policy. That's why the pet policy got removed. It was used by idiots to get attention in a WGW-esque manhunt to disrupt things and by fuckwit HoPs who want an excuse to make their pew pews go red.

[Falamazeer]

Theft is always an IC issue unless it's completely insane: "Lol I stole the entire armory and space it"

That's literately what someone did, except instead of space it, he kept it. First example first post, And I was told I'd be lucky to see a note for it, because theft is IC.
Also, he took everything I owned, And left me with a grey jumpsuit and an IDless PDA that wasn't even mine. Not even a backpack.

Policy as you argue it, and policy as it is being enacted is not matching. At least in this case.

As far as specifically why niknkaflaks proposal is dumb:

whatever IC justice you deal out, be prepared to back it up with reasons for doing so.

And yet the thieves have no such wories, because theft is IC. so we start with a warning to the victim not to cross the line.

If you are killed trying to take justice on the thief, that is on you as you decided to keep the matter IC and therefore it remains IC
even if you die. Do not come crying to admins if you decide to kill a guy and fail. Understand what you are getting into.

Again, protections for the instigator, Should the thief decide he wants to kill you for trying to kill him over shit he started, that's IC.
Because you should have Ahelped instead, so that way you could be told theft is IC, and start right back over with trying to handle it IC so you can potentially be murdered. With again, no help or protections against it.

Circles in circles, this is like crazy people logic.

[Konork]

Theft is always an IC issue unless it's completely insane: "Lol I stole the entire armory and space it" or repeated across multiple rounds "Lol let me roll mime and take the id every round there's no Captain as non-antag"

Uh, if they're usually an IC issue, which kind of carries the implication that you shouldn't ahelp it, how are admins going to know that it's actually happening across multiple rounds? Like, the only real thing I can think of is if someone makes a ban request against that person and ends up with a bunch of other people that got shit stolen from posting in it. There also really isn't a good automatic way of logging thefts, and even if they get ahelped, is it really going to be worth adding a note for it if an admin thinks that was the first time he stole something in a while/ever?

[Stickymayhem]

Theft is always an IC issue unless it's completely insane: "Lol I stole the entire armory and space it" or repeated across multiple rounds "Lol let me roll mime and take the id every round there's no Captain as non-antag"

Uh, if they're usually an IC issue, which kind of carries the implication that you shouldn't ahelp it, how are admins going to know that it's actually happening across multiple rounds? Like, the only real thing I can think of is if someone makes a ban request against that person and ends up with a bunch of other people that got shit stolen from posting in it. There also really isn't a good automatic way of logging thefts, and even if they get ahelped, is it really going to be worth adding a note for it if an admin thinks that was the first time he stole something in a while/ever?

I didn't say don't ahelp significant theft. When you do we keep an eye on the player for a few rounds to make sure its not a constant thing.

Also accepted are: "Griffer stole the spare three rounds in a row" and "omg he stole the armory he does this like every day"

[LNGLY]

The game needs less obsessive administrator intervention, not more. There's no theft pandemic despite what Falamabazinga is saying. Don't fix what's not broken.

[Falamazeer]

I didnt say pandemic despite what LN-theworldisouttogetme-LY says.

I just said it's getting worse. and policy might not be covering all its bases.

[Loonikus]

If someone is stealing your shit, either report them to security or beat them up and chuck em out, and then report it to security. Theft isn't even a big deal, which is why I almost never actually kill anyone for fucking with my stuff. After all, its only a 20 second walk from anywhere on the station to cargo to get replacements for what was stolen. Typically anything cargo can't replace is kept in a super high security area where you can dunk thieves on sight anyway.

Unless its consistent behavior, its an IC issue. If your afraid of getting killed for trying to stop thieves, consider either gitting gud, getting a weapon, calling security, or just saying fuckit and not try to pick a fight you don't think you can win.

[Tunder]

As a regular Sec player, shittery takes up a lot of precious Sec time these days.

Unfortunately Sec is forced to put this sort of behavior on the backburner when we have Syndies/active changelings/cult/etc around, as there simply aren't enough active officers to respond to thefts while people are being murdered.

These same shitters who push the envelope and break into functioning labs to steal stuff they really don't need are really keen on ahelping whenever Sec finally catches up to them and gives em a hefty sentence, or leaves em in the brig to go catch actual bad guys.

Since admins are seeing nonantags whining to them about Sec being shit, and there is no way for the admins to see how the people messaging them are actually deserving of ill treatment, Sec gets bwoinked to oblivion and is forced to play nice with these assholes. As a result we tend to leave them alone or let the victims handle it.


I think that greytiding should make you valid. I also think things were better when pet murdering made you valid. Shitters were put in fear of their lives, of being taken out of the round, and that apprehension is the only thing that limits their activity.