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Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 2:44 am
by Skorvold
If ERP becomes an issue with a player, do you think they should be punished for it?

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 2:48 am
by Aurx
Skorvold wrote:If a thing becomes an issue with a player, should they be punished?

This really shouldn't have to be asked.

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 2:51 am
by Skorvold
Aurx wrote:
Skorvold wrote:If a thing becomes an issue with a player, should they be punished?

This really shouldn't have to be asked.


Some people disagree with me, this poll is to show I have sufficient backing in the argument.

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 2:51 am
by Kangaraptor
I don't see a problem with people ERPing.

What I do see a problem with is people like Mugen being intentionally creepy all the time.

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 2:54 am
by Skorvold
Kangaraptor wrote:I don't see a problem with people ERPing.

What I do see a problem with is people like Mugen being intentionally creepy all the time.



This is about EXCESSIVE ERP. Doing it every round nonstop.

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 2:55 am
by Kangaraptor
Skorvold wrote:
Kangaraptor wrote:I don't see a problem with people ERPing.

What I do see a problem with is people like Mugen being intentionally creepy all the time.



This is about EXCESSIVE ERP. Doing it every round nonstop.


Every round non-stop? Eh. If it's to the detriment of others - sure, slap them on the wrist, but if it's not detracting from the round... who gives a damn?

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 2:59 am
by Lovecraft
I never see it, so I'm not calling for punishment.

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 3:56 am
by ExplosiveCrate
If they're taking up a valuable job slot just to ERP round after round? Yeah, jobban them. If they're just playing assistants I don't see why they would be punished as long as the policy of letting admins mess with ERPers made a return.

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 4:12 am
by danno
For anyone that doesn't know, this is because we had a round earlier where TWO traitors did absolutely nothing but ERP
It was super shitty
can we just ban ERP like everyone else please

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 4:20 am
by Lo6a4evskiy
Traitors aren't obligated to build you a theme park for a round. Antags can do whatever they please short of rape, metacommunications or IC in OOC. Where do you even find all this ERP shit? I don't think I've ever seen any of it, let alone every round.

Sure, you can bitch about shitty antags all you please, but banning people because they didn't provide enough fun is ludicrous.

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 4:30 am
by danno
you serious

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 4:54 am
by Psyentific
Skorvold wrote:If ERP becomes an issue with a player, do you think they should be punished for it?

Earlier today, there was a round on Artyom. In this round, there were three traitors. Two of these traitors were Elise Fuzzle/Fuzzledorf and Alice Jackson/Dawgas. They went to the library/dorms/chapel/maint and ERPed, all round long. The third traitor and only other antagonist was the AI, who was very bad at it.

I can count three? Four? Maybe five? rounds in the last 24 hours where these two have been ERPing - To the extent that it is almost every round the two are online at the same time. I don't care about them ERPing enough to involve admins, but HOLY FUCKING SHIT THEY ARE WASTING ANTAG SLOTS ON THIS NONSENSE!

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 4:58 am
by Lovecraft
Open up ERPers to admin abuse.
If this is a persistent, antag slot wasting problem with the two people, we should slip this under rule 0 and not let them be antagonists.

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 4:59 am
by Psyentific
Lovecraft wrote:Open up ERPers to admin abuse.

Image
They already are.

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 5:12 am
by ExplosiveCrate
Pretty sure I remember at least one admin complain about not being able to mess with ERPers anymore.

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 5:31 am
by KingLouisXIV
Yeah this isn't cool. Let ERP happen especially if they're assistants and not bothering anybody else; who cares?

Antag, normal server hours and not actually antagging? No, you're not obligated to set the station on fire, but like with the other jobs you should at least try to make an effort towards what the game gives you. This is poor behavior.

Spoiler:
If you want to fucking ERP so bad, take it out of the actual game how is this so hard to comprehend

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 5:33 am
by miggles
ban erp

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 6:02 am
by Kelenius
Antags are free to ignore they objectives and fuck off.

They are completely free to not use their antag status at all.

Why do you have problem with ERP specifically? Would it be any worse if they'd just wanted around the station doing nothing?

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 6:06 am
by Psyentific
Kelenius wrote:They are completely free to not use their antag status at all.

Doing this is very poor form. Antag slots are one of the most limited, valuable and potent things in the game. You can ERP or Heavy-RP in any round - You can't commit the perfect crime, get away with murder, and/or singlehandedly bring the station to its knees in most rounds. That's a liscense to do whatever you want you're throwing away - To do it so casually is to spit in the face of the mountains of players who spend half their rounds hoping for it. A lot of people would do a lot of things for antag status, and it demands some measure of respect.

If all you're gonna do is ERP, turn everything off. If you're not interested in antagonizing, why do you have antag roles turned on?

Kelenius wrote:Why do you have problem with ERP specifically? Would it be any worse if they'd just wanted around the station doing nothing?

It's pointless. ERP, especially bad ERP is neither arousing nor amusing, it doesn't develop the characters involved, and there's no reason to handle sex on-camera instead of off-camera. It's painful to watch, and especially painful to see a player I once looked up to participating in and encouraging this.

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 6:33 am
by Skorvold
Since when were we not allowed to mess with them anymore? I must have not got the memo.

But Dawgas and Fuzzle do it every round, literally, every round. I think we should make a set rule on this, or make it a medium to high crime in space law to prevent further incidents.

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 6:42 am
by Ikarrus
You can mess with them as an admin, but just don't outright kill them.

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 7:49 am
by mrpain
I dont come to SS13 to play or watch Creepy Space Sex Simulator 2055, I come here to play SS13.

Make it a crime in space law or make them valid. You gib and hunt WGW readers, why not ERPers?

Not all of us want to have to listen to that bullshit while we're ghosted/dead.

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 8:15 am
by MisterPerson
Better Suggestion: Ban ERP entirely

Of course the last poll was pretty in favor of keeping ERP and that was only a few months ago, so no need for another poll about it. Just tossing out that we created this problem and have a pretty simple way to solve it.

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 8:29 am
by mrpain
MisterPerson wrote:Better Suggestion: Ban ERP entirely

Of course the last poll was pretty in favor of keeping ERP and that was only a few months ago, so no need for another poll about it. Just tossing out that we created this problem and have a pretty simple way to solve it.


I like that better.

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 12:14 pm
by Lo6a4evskiy
Psyentific wrote:It's pointless. ERP, especially bad ERP is neither arousing nor amusing, it doesn't develop the characters involved, and there's no reason to handle sex on-camera instead of off-camera. It's painful to watch, and especially painful to see a player I once looked up to participating in and encouraging this.

Nobody is obligated to do anything amusing or arousing or whatever it is you want them to do. They probably find it worth their time - it's none of your business.

We cannot ban people because they do something you do not like. We cannot ban friendly wizards, we cannot ban people who don't want to actively participate in revolution, we cannot ban people who want to fuck off into space as traitors, we cannot ban people who give their uplink to security, we cannot ban people who are just bad at being antag, WHY SHOULD ERP BE ANY DIFFERENT, I ask.

Only because it's sexual? That's kinda stupid, if you ask me. I don't fancy ERPing in 2D spessmen, or anywhere for that matter, but as long as I'm not forced into it, I couldn't care less and neither should you.

You can say "OH BUT THEY TAKE MY PRECIOUS ANTAG SLOTS I COULD USE THEM A LOT BETTER" all you want, but what now, we're gonna ban anyone who we think is not worthy of antag slot?

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 12:24 pm
by Jacquerel
it kind of is the antagonists' job to make the round interesting though, that's why they are there
It's literally the purpose of their existence to add tension & drama to the round, if they just fuck off to fuck then they shouldn't even have had antagonist on and won't mind having it turned off for them, given that no syndicate items are sex toys

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 12:55 pm
by Bluespace
this topic is literally just about fuzzeldorf and dawgas, they ERP constantly.

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 1:03 pm
by Steelpoint
If a player is taking a head role consistently to ERP, then I would argue they should be told to stop that.

As an antag however they are under no obligation to do whatever we want them to do. Antags have a free license to do near anything they want, if they want to waste their antag opportunity to ERP then more power to them. Just treat this like how you would treat any other antag role that decides to run off into space. Mainly that only Nuke Ops, head Rev's and starter Cultists are obligated to do their objectives, anyone else can do what they please.

Again, if your going to give a antag a free for all license, you can't just then pick and chose what they can and cannot do because you personally don't like it. We don't antag ban players for going friendly wizard so why ban a traitor that is ERPing in the dorms?

Also I have to note, if the only two surviving antags were ERPing and the round went stale from that, then I would actually blame the admins (if any) for not doing something to advance the round.

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 2:43 pm
by Russell
skorvold i know the real reason you want to ban erp

and let me just say

you are a giant pussy

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 3:56 pm
by Skorvold
Russell wrote:skorvold i know the real reason you want to ban erp

and let me just say

you are a giant pussy


>Being this stupid

If I wanted to ban for that reason, I'd just say something in adminbus about it and ban away without a second thought of asking you guys.

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 4:17 pm
by danno
how about we just literally kill ERPers in real life

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 5:18 pm
by bandit
Compromise: if you're an antag and you ERP consistently, you become valid to admins. (Key word is "consistently": I can see, like, an antag ERPing their target and then using that as a way to get them into a secluded place for murder. Lings do it.)

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 5:22 pm
by danno
That's not a compromise, it doesn't fix the fact that the antag slot was wasted
and having to say "pray" in ooc and choose a special snowflake to traitor-ize shouldn't be necessary

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 5:29 pm
by SergeantSkread
i don't get why people would want to see 2d spacemen sexing it up or how that would arouse them, but honestly, is the ERP this bad? I think I have never, ever walked in on or seen ERP on any server, even as a ghost. Well once, but they were two troll botanists gay sexing it up in the middle of the hallway and they got banned anyway. so did the ERP problem get worst or something?

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 5:38 pm
by bandit
This seems to be an isolated instance on Artyom. It happens so infrequently that telling people to pray (and people are usually more than willing to take admins up on that) isn't so bad.

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 6:00 pm
by Lo6a4evskiy
I have the best idea ever.

Why don't we let dannos decide who can play antags and who can't

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 6:06 pm
by danno
sounds good to me
grats on your first good idea loba

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 6:49 pm
by Lo6a4evskiy
Let's see your list first

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 9:23 pm
by Stephie
Are we really using the idea of antags being in charge of making the round fun as an excuse to ban ERP? Even in one of the earlier examples in this thread, there were three antags. Two were ERPing, one was bad at the whole antag thing, which resulted in a bad round or something. Do we ban them all for failing at their job of being fun creators?

I mean, if admins are allowed to spawn aliens when there isn't enough fun being produced per minute in any other case of boring antags, then how should the one where those antags just fuck off in more ways than one be any different? Because ghosts may read text sex and find it creepy and disturbing, in a "paranoia-laden" 18+ videogame about killing each other in gruesome ways, community of which almost unanimously supported adding stuff like dismemberment? I'm sorry, but that's like banning people for parapen+C4 (a murderboner's equivalent of date rape), except ERP doesn't ruin anyone's round, and even provides hilarious logs at times.

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 9:28 pm
by danno
If you bring "can't ban ERP unless you ban dismemberment" to this forum as well I'm going to flip my bitch
just saying

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 9:42 pm
by Stephie
What I mean is, people find stuff disturbing. Some may not enjoy excessive esword carnages, bombings or plasma floods. Oldlings sucking off their prey and newcultists sacrificing people can trigger some who are faint of heart as well. I, personally, coming from an all-white community, may or may not find the large amount of dark-skinned crewmebers particularly unsettling. Do we ban all those things for being potentially disturbing, or do we laugh the people complaining about them out of the game and the forums?

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 10:07 pm
by Munchlax
Just ban erp.

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 10:09 pm
by Myroc
The problem here isn't ERP, but that people are consistently fucking off immedately/soon after roundstart to do irrelevant things and neglecting duties that are expected from them, whether it is Head of Staff responsibilities, antag "responsibilities", or any other role responsibility. The important thing is the "dereliction of duty" (to quote Space Law) bit, not the ERP; You could replace the ERP part with grabbing a hardsuit and going exploring in space, and it'd be the same scenario. Of course we should be warning/banning people for this type of behaviour, but it should be made clear that it's because they're ignoring round-responsibilities as opposed to ERPing.

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 10:49 pm
by Stephie
Pretty sure that this is an issue with ERP specifically. And the topic itself being titled "Appearance/Antag bans on ERP" is only one of the things that make me believe that. I also struggle to remember the last time anyone complained about antags not murdering up the station in ways that did not involve ERP. It did happen, but I can only remember An0n3 threatening a ban for that.

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 11:21 pm
by Myroc
I don't see how this is an issue specifically related to ERP. Let's presume the following conditions: We have one player, who has both Head of Staff and Antagonist roles enabled and receives them regularly. For several consecutive rounds, he immediately does a certain action, without ever saying a word to other players. What, then, is the difference between that action being:

Going to the dorms to ERP with another player.
Going to EVA, retrieving a spacesuit, and flinging himself into space.
Going to genetics and turning himself into a monkey.
Ghosting immediately.

They all consist of that player abandoning his duties to do something that will have little to no impact on the current round. The last one is particularly blatant, but it's there for comparison. We already warn/ban people for going braindead/ghosting as a Head of Staff without adminhelping first. What's the difference between that and the other scenarios beyond the fact that they're technically still alive in the round? They're still not contributing to the round in a meaningful way.

If you find ERP to be creepy as fuck and want it banned, then by all means, feel free to have that opinion, but one needs to realize that ERP isn't the problem at hand here, just one way it manifests.

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 4:20 am
by ExplosiveCrate
Why not just take away the antag status of the people who aren't doing anything antagonizing and give them to the next guy who spawns?

If they aren't going to do anything antagonistic, they shouldn't be an antag.

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 5:04 am
by iamgoofball
You people are defending getting your rocks off in 2d spaceman.

In the future, I'm going to pull this thread up and rub it in your face every single moment I can.

Anyways, It's fucking annoying to not roll antag for 3 fucking rounds in a row, and in each of those rounds, the antags were off erping in the dorms.

I wouldn't give a damn if I wasn't cheated out of antag by someone who doesn't want to antag. It's like rolling captain and then SSDing. You cheated someone out of captain just so you could erp in your bedroom with the clown.

At least friendly wizards use their spells on occasion for fun and profit for the crew, and everyone enjoys it

ERPing traitors don't. They don't use any of their items except for as erping props, and no one enjoys it.

Never ever compare friendly wizards to erping traitors who spend their entire round in the dorms.

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 5:35 am
by Cheridan
Currently, we ban station heads if they go braindead and 'waste the job slot'.

It makes little sense to me if we're not going to apply this to Traitor positions as well, which are also very important to the flow of the round (arguably more so, depending on who is arguing) and also limited in number.
Locking yourself in a dorm all round is equateable to going braindead.

So sure, an antag ban in this situation is logical.


That being said, do we really want our servers to be a place where people go just to internet-fuck each other? Just ban erp outright.

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 5:42 am
by miggles
everything cheridan said is fact except the part where heads of staff are ever important

Re: Appearance/Antag bans on ERP

PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 6:02 am
by paprika
If you tick antag knowing you're going to spend the entire round erping and you know a lot of people take issue with it and you know it disrupts the round and you know it wastes and antag slot that's basically griefing. If an admin talks to you, tell you it's bad, tell you people dislike it, it's griefing, you should cut it out. You could argue it's not against the rules, and just bad roleplay or gameplay, but it's the same with grey tide. Grey tide was initially just 'bad gameplay' or 'bad roleplay' but it got so bad it was equated to grief because, most of the time, people were repeat offenders who did it over and over after being talked to by admins.

Inaction is still an action if they're wasting antag slots after an admin has told them it bothers people / messes with the round.

It's reasonable to ban someone from antag who knowingly wastes antag slots because it bothers people. As always, admins should PM players who do it post round or on the forums or byond and let them know it's not okay, then after that point you can escalate the issue accordingly with bans on their antag selection. Pretty basic admin shit, but always talk to the player with this vague situation and take the responsibility onto yourself as an admin to personally watch the player so you aren't banning people based on hearsay or vague proof.

ERP is a different subject. ERP in non-critical jobs (critical jobs are defined as heads of staff or most security positions currently) hurts nobody because it has no effect on the gameplay outside of a traitor potentially targeting you and not being able to find you because you're locked in a closet feeling up the mime. But again, if this was reported to an admin, the admin could easily tell the player that was targeted to 'please late join to cut down on the chance you're targeted by antags if you're going to engage in heavy roleplay' because it makes it hard for them to find you in what would normally be a relatively simple task. Traitors also have thermals to counteract ERP hiding making it even less harmful to gameplay in the long run. I've had my target engage in 'heavy roleplay' in a 1 tile box but I found them with thermals eventually through maint. It's pretty much why thermals exist.

So yeah, use your smart admin judgement. PM the player. Things like this are circumstantial and making sweeping bans on things like ERP wastes time. Admins aren't allowed to ERP but do it anyway, that's pretty obvious sign it's going to happen regardless. I've always thought our server doesn't ALLOW ERP, instead we TOLERATE IT to a POINT.