Looting AFKers/braindeads

[Amnestik]

So tonight I stripped an AFK traitor. Later, I got an adminPM telling me not to loot braindeads.

As far as I'm aware, looting has always been an IC issue, regardless of whether the player is braindead or not. I didn't think this had changed. I later discovered the player I'd stripped was actually an admin, which made the unlikely adminPM make more sense.

So is this an actual policy, or not?

[TechnoAlchemist]

I'm the one you stripped. I ahelped it because people have in the past been bwoinked for looting braindead/afk players.

I'm not entirely sure if it is an official policy, I assumed it was, but I'd love for a headmin to chime in on this, clarity would be good.

[Amnestik]

I'm the one you stripped. I ahelped it because people have in the past been bwoinked for looting braindead/afk players.

I'm not entirely sure if it is an official policy, I assumed it was, but I'd love for a headmin to chime in on this, clarity would be good.

Okay. Sorry for stripping you by the way, it was shitty.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

I think the only restrictions on looting braindeads is not nicking their ID cards for no reason, because that's just unfair.

[imblyings]

The only hard protection I've seen and personally bwoinked people for was killing braindeads. I also recall years and years ago, someone saying it'd cross the line if you took someone's stuff but left them trapped in an area they were unlikely to get out of and that seems fair.

Otherwise, braindead and afk players being looted really isn't new, especially for braindead engineers or security officers.

[NikNakFlak]

Well, it's a fine line I guess.
On one hand, that braindead you could be stripping might be a guy who has shitty internet and got disconnected and he's mad that he got taken advantage of because an OOC reason lead to IC consequences. He would probably adminhelp, and if it was someone nicking the dude for shits and stuff, bwoink. If it was an antag, tough luck.

One the other hand, the braindead you just looted could be some assistant who was like "not antag, lel log out" or just some dude who had to bail, so in the sense his braindead corpse is free game. No problems on either end, and you and or an antag just got some new stuff.

I think that's all there is too it, I don't think there needs to be a policy and certainty I do not think anyone wants the bay policy where braindeads have to be ignored and you can get banned for looting? I guess, as usual, it's all circumstantial. Looting ain't a huge deal honestly.

[Steelpoint]

Way back, and I recall a similar conversation being held on this, the accepted standard was that looting braindeads of anything they had was perfectly fine so long as you did not leave them stuck in somewhere they can't leave, such as maintenance.

[TheNightingale]

This is how I usually do it:

Unexpected disconnects: If you really need their things now - you're trapped in a syphoning room with an AFK Engineer, for instance - take their things, and try and give them back when you're done. If they have something that belongs to you (no, Security confiscating your stunprod doesn't count), take it back if you like. Otherwise, try and bring them to their department or a safe area that they can access.
Braindead for a while: If you're pretty sure they're not coming back, yes, you can take their things if you need them (including an ID, if you have to).

Short version: Abusing OOC disadvantages for IC gain is awful and dishonoru. You can't take that Officer's taser just because they went braindead whilst arresting you. If they were awful and dishonoru to you, though, go ahead... so you can take that Assistant's gloves if they went braindead whilst tabling you. If you don't have any other choice, at least try to return the stuff afterwards.

[lumipharon]

People just up and fuck off all the time (especially as sec officers, god knows why), with no intention of coming back.

While personally I wouldn't encourage looting brain deads, I certainly wouldn't stop it outright. Also as far as I know you just can't kill them (as non antags), or other rule 1 shittery.

[Atlanta-Ned]

If I see a braindead with high-level access (Sec, head etc) in public, I'll usually try to at least grab their ID and turn it in so it can't be used for nefarious purposes. It's always fun when they wake up while this is going on and assume the worst.

[Amelius]

You're really really really not going to be able to enforce any police when entails no looting AFKs/braindeads as a non-traitor. People will do it regardless, since the 'victim', more often than not first, doesn't know the assailant, secondly, almost everyone recognizes that it's a huge risk to go AFK, or disconnect, and that having unstable internet is a recipe for disaster in any MP game, let alone a high-speed one like SS13, and thirdly, often are only looted for anything aside from a high-access ID and to adminhelp is silly. Imagine being in a firefight with a traitor and adminhelping because you were stunned while you were out. Unfortunate circumstances such as OPs happen, flat out, and it's unfortunate, but you can't expect players to act purely in their own and the crew's disinterest and not loot vacants (look shiny new ID and equipment with no chance of reprisal that will be looted by someone else anyway -> oh wait, only antags can loot vacants so suddenly we've made the idea more appealing [since only antags will be looting them, taking their equipment is denying antags additional equipment and access] - So, I'm not stealing it, I'm securing it, with the additional benefit that I can use it myself). That type of legislation will never actually has any sort of power in practice, unless someone is butthurt enough to adminhelp (rarely).

Really, the thought of having players adminhelp after going afk for 20 minutes and seeing that they no longer have their ID is way too hugbox for me. If your internet is unstable, or you have to do something for several minutes in an insecure area (or longer in a secure one), that's your problem, in all spheres. Furthermore, it makes it easier to identify traitors (well, looting is entirely against the rules, ergo, that RD that looted the braindead CE on the bridge is an antag and I should push for a permabrig sentence instead of a 10 minute brig sentence for grand theft). It's just a bad idea.

[TheNightingale]

After twenty minutes, if you come back you really shouldn't expect your ID to still be there. If you disconnect and come back in thirty seconds (those BYOND ads), though, and you're suddenly missing your things, that's not fun at all.

[Scones]

Strikes me as an IC issue

If someone takes your ID, you have some pretty big leeway to fuck them up, last I checked

[Steelpoint]

Also I think the last time this came up the general idea was to find somewhere secure to hide yourself beforehand.

[Scones]

Also I think the last time this came up the general idea was to find somewhere secure to hide yourself beforehand.

Why the fuck was locking lockers from the inside removed, I know it was a muh realism but it was also a good feature

[DemonFiren]

Wait, it was removed? I coulda sworn you could still do it just a few days ago.

[ThatSlyFox]

Personally I feel if you go afk/braindead in a area someone can loot you then that's your fault if someone decides to.

Obviously this doesn't apply when those moments half the server gets kicked and people are going on a loot frenzy.

[rdght91]

I think it's fair if you d/c and jump back in within minutes due to some unexpected error it's reasonable for an admin to order a non-antag to give you your stuff back or turn it in to the HOP (We also need to make sure they're not punished IC because they're exposing themselves for OOC reasons, I stole a sec ID, boinked, returned it and got jailed once), but if they're braindead for any more than the amount of time it takes to jump back on the server (5 at a very, very high max) everything they own is fair game.

[Jeb]

I think it's fair if you d/c and jump back in within minutes due to some unexpected error it's reasonable for an admin to order a non-antag to give you your stuff back or turn it in to the HOP (We also need to make sure they're not punished IC because they're exposing themselves for OOC reasons, I stole a sec ID, boinked, returned it and got jailed once), but if they're braindead for any more than the amount of time it takes to jump back on the server (5 at a very, very high max) everything they own is fair game.

No, because all you have to do at this point is if you're getting dunked, close the game, come back and say "yeah my internet was shitting up, I went braindead and came back with nothing left on me".

[TheNightingale]

That brings shame upon your family, though.

[QuartzCrystal]

When stuff like this is ahelp'd when I'm on I take on a case by case basis. Sometimes it's totally valid, sometimes it's not. I view it very much the same as looting someone who is in crit, which should be taken on a case by case basis.

[lumipharon]

Also I think the last time this came up the general idea was to find somewhere secure to hide yourself beforehand.

Why the fuck was locking lockers from the inside removed, I know it was a muh realism but it was also a good feature

You can still lock lockers from the inside.

[Malkevin]

Someone thats literally just discoed whilst walking down the hallway shouldn't expect to lose all their shit in the 10 seconds it takes to reconnect.

Everyone else should be fair game, with the caveat that you don't trap them in an area they can't get out of. - ie it should have a disposal unit or atleast an intercom

Leaving them a radio isn't enough, a couple of weeks back I was the captain. The server's firewall blocked my IP so I didn't manage to get back until I rebooted my router 15 minutes later (when I realised the server was still up).
When I came back I found the HoP had taken both my ID and my spare ID, locked me in the locker in my bedroom (which has no intercom or disposal unit), had taken my headset but left his - but that was no good because the radios and PDA were disabled.
End up flicking my suit sensors to full and killing myself to hope that a doctor was monitoring the crew monitor, luckily one was - unfortunately the doctor that came was a shit cock and only defibbed me once... and then the HoP told them to not bother even attempting to clone me.

So round ruined because a cunt and a dumb cunt.

[MrStonedOne]

Just a note: braindead also means an admin who admin ghosted to handle an ahelp real quick.

Honestly, the best course of action would be to make the braindead message a bit more refined. Make it so another message shows if they have been braindead for so and so amount of time, and make that free game for looting, maybe another message after that that is free game flat out for gibbing, killing, etc.

[bandit]

As much as it sucks, looting braindeads is part of the game. If there's any place that should be immune, though, make it fall under the same rules that frown upon camping the arrivals shuttle, because it sucks to join, have startup lag for 1 minute, and come back ID-less.