Revenant Policy Regarding Other Antags

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Tunder
 
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Revenant Policy Regarding Other Antags

Postby Tunder » Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:59 pm #117041

After a few bad experiences with revenants as an antag(getting murdered by their EMP attack as a malf AI, getting ratted out to Sec as an agent by a revenant after letting him feed off critted victims before spacing them), I feel that revenant policy needs to be made more specific.

Revenants should be the antag equivalent of drones, cleaning up after messes but not getting involved in worldly affairs, and it says something along those lines in their flavor text. Their being able to act as hear-all see-all rogue agents who can affect a round at will is questionable, and doesn't seem to fit the point of their existence.
wól dir, spér, kriuze únde dorn,
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Re: Revenant Policy Regarding Other Antags

Postby InsaneHyena » Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:11 pm #117042

Agreed. Too often I see revenants deliberately messing with antags, perhaps as some form of metagrudge. I haven't observed your loss specifically, so I can't say anything about this particular round, but I HAVE seen revenants that, for example, forsake their "stay hidden" objective and went loud to break a gang's dominator.
Last edited by InsaneHyena on Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tunder
 
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Re: Revenant Policy Regarding Other Antags

Postby Tunder » Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:17 pm #117043

InsaneHyena wrote:Agreed. Too often I see revenants deliberately messing with antags, perhaps as some form of metagrudge.



Yeah, I just got metagrudged by Niknakflak, an admin, who helped Sec all round after snagging a few free meals from me. Shit was uncool, and the flavor text when you are made a revenant is pretty specific regarding working with antags and not against em.

An admin spawning himself as an antag that can go everywhere, see everything, and help Sec fuck over other antags is too much.
wól dir, spér, kriuze únde dorn,
wê dir, heiden, dáz ist dir zorn.

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Re: Revenant Policy Regarding Other Antags

Postby TheNightingale » Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:24 pm #117044

They're ghosts; why can they talk?

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Re: Revenant Policy Regarding Other Antags

Postby Scones » Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:26 pm #117045

Maybe their ability to speak to humans is just shitty and problematic
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Re: Revenant Policy Regarding Other Antags

Postby NikNakFlak » Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:30 pm #117046

It was a random event. I snagged some free meals from you and then betrayed you because security gave me more meals. There are no sides in revenant, it's whatever you feel like to get your essence points. Throwing out metagrudge claims is rather poor taste just because you are salty.
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Re: Revenant Policy Regarding Other Antags

Postby Incomptinence » Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:44 pm #117048

For the benefit of those who haven't been one what exactly is this stupid flavour text?

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Re: Revenant Policy Regarding Other Antags

Postby NikNakFlak » Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:53 pm #117049

You are a revenant.
Your formerly mundane spirit has been infused with alien energies and empowered into a revenant.
You are not dead, not alive, but somewhere in between. You are capable of limited interaction with both worlds.
You are invincible and invisible to everyone but other ghosts. Some abilities may change this.
To function, you are to drain the life essence from humans. This essence is a resource and will power all of your abilities.
You do not remember anything of your past lives, nor will you remember anything about this one after your death.
Be sure to read the wiki page at https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Revenant to learn more.
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Re: Revenant Policy Regarding Other Antags

Postby Scones » Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:59 pm #117050

Tunder wrote: and the flavor text when you are made a revenant is pretty specific regarding working with antags and not against em.


revenant.dm wrote:You are a revenant.
Your formerly mundane spirit has been infused with alien energies and empowered into a revenant.
You are not dead, not alive, but somewhere in between. You are capable of limited interaction with both worlds.
You are invincible and invisible to everyone but other ghosts. Some abilities may change this.
To function, you are to drain the life essence from humans. This essence is a resource and will power all of your abilities.
You do not remember anything of your past lives, nor will you remember anything about this one after your death
Be sure to read the wiki page at https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Revenant to learn more.


What?

Tunder wrote:An admin spawning himself as an antag that can go everywhere, see everything, and help Sec fuck over other antags is too much.


Do you have any evidence of this? Shouldn't this be an admin complaint?
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Re: Revenant Policy Regarding Other Antags

Postby NikNakFlak » Sun Sep 06, 2015 9:00 pm #117051

No mention of having to help antagonists in the original PR either: https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/8842
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Re: Revenant Policy Regarding Other Antags

Postby Tunder » Sun Sep 06, 2015 9:05 pm #117052

Scones wrote:
Tunder wrote: and the flavor text when you are made a revenant is pretty specific regarding working with antags and not against em.


revenant.dm wrote:You are a revenant.
Your formerly mundane spirit has been infused with alien energies and empowered into a revenant.
You are not dead, not alive, but somewhere in between. You are capable of limited interaction with both worlds.
You are invincible and invisible to everyone but other ghosts. Some abilities may change this.
To function, you are to drain the life essence from humans. This essence is a resource and will power all of your abilities.
You do not remember anything of your past lives, nor will you remember anything about this one after your death
Be sure to read the wiki page at https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Revenant to learn more.


What?

Tunder wrote:An admin spawning himself as an antag that can go everywhere, see everything, and help Sec fuck over other antags is too much.


Do you have any evidence of this? Shouldn't this be an admin complaint?



It was apparently changed, fairly certain the spawn text had a sentence regarding working with other antags.
wól dir, spér, kriuze únde dorn,
wê dir, heiden, dáz ist dir zorn.

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Re: Revenant Policy Regarding Other Antags

Postby Boredone » Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:20 pm #117062

Kinda minor, but Revenants currently get random fluff objectives, like be non-lethal, help other antags, kill the chaplain, etc.

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Re: Revenant Policy Regarding Other Antags

Postby Alex Crimson » Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:35 pm #117065

I ded nerf pls.

Seriously, a Revenant has basically no way to kill people, so it either flies around being useless waiting for people to die, or it talks people into killing eachother. I see no issues with this as long as the Revenant only snitches on antags it sees after its spawned, not antags it saw as an observer.

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Re: Revenant Policy Regarding Other Antags

Postby whodaloo » Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:45 pm #117068

Alex, revenants can single-handedly murder malfunctioning AIs, and have done so more than once.
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Re: Revenant Policy Regarding Other Antags

Postby Tunder » Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:51 pm #117070

whodaloo wrote:Alex, revenants can single-handedly murder malfunctioning AIs, and have done so more than once.


Whose idea was it to give them EMP when they exist solely to feed off of living humanoids in crit, anyway?

It doesn't make any sense.
wól dir, spér, kriuze únde dorn,
wê dir, heiden, dáz ist dir zorn.

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Re: Revenant Policy Regarding Other Antags

Postby Shad0vvs » Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:00 pm #117071

Sometimes they get the objective of
Objective #2: Collaborate with existing antagonists aboard the station to gain essence.

Which you may be confusing for the spawn text.
[03:37:46]SAY: Uriel Sutton/Shad0vvs : Alright
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[03:38:02]SAY: Uriel Sutton/Shad0vvs : If she says space law again
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Re: Revenant Policy Regarding Other Antags

Postby lumipharon » Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:07 pm #117072

What is even the point of revenants?

They just ghost around griefing people with EMP, then soul suck random people.
They seem functionally (or literally, not sure) invincible and uncounterable. They're just sort of... there. Annoying and inconveniencing people at best, dicking over malf's etc at worst.

R&d needs to be able to some sort of ghost buster backpack to suck them up for science.

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Re: Revenant Policy Regarding Other Antags

Postby Alex Crimson » Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:38 am #117102

Yeah the EMP thing is silly. No idea why that was added as an ability. All Revenant abilities suck now. It was supposed to be an antag that does spooky/environmental stuff, but i guess Xhuis got bored and moved onto other projects.

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Re: Revenant Policy Regarding Other Antags

Postby Tunder » Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:47 am #117103

NikNakFlak wrote:It was a random event. I snagged some free meals from you and then betrayed you because security gave me more meals. There are no sides in revenant, it's whatever you feel like to get your essence points. Throwing out metagrudge claims is rather poor taste just because you are salty.


I'm not salty, I greentexted despite your meddling.

The fact was that you were able and allowed to act the way you did, when you probably shouldn't be.

Shard souls are given the ability to talk and go wherever because they are bound to another antag's will. Ghosts aren't allowed to interact with the game anymore for good reason, they ruin the game for antags. Revenants are apparently given the ability to communicate with living players, which is bullshit to begin with and proven for years to not work with noclipping mob types, but then they're allowed to do whatever they want with the ability to see everything and talk to everyone, which is even more bullshit.
wól dir, spér, kriuze únde dorn,
wê dir, heiden, dáz ist dir zorn.

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Re: Revenant Policy Regarding Other Antags

Postby Alex Crimson » Mon Sep 07, 2015 5:03 am #117117

They cannot do much else though. Talking people into killing eachother is the main way Revenant will get fresh kills. Just because a ghost is talking to you, that doesnt mean you should trust it. Last time i was Revenant i lied to the HoS and told them random people were "evil".

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Re: Revenant Policy Regarding Other Antags

Postby lumipharon » Mon Sep 07, 2015 5:07 am #117118

They're pretty fucking awful.

Just had a round where badmins made several of them.
Constant fucking emp spam, constant whatever the power is that knocks everyone out for ages with loads of stam damage and burn.


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