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Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:25 am
by Steelpoint
I recently had a round where I was a traitor spawned Alien (Traitor bought a larva in Xenobio for all their TC's), I eventually became a Queen as the Traitor kept throwing about six or so monkeys into the pen.

Suffice it to say we were eventually released (amusingly NOT by the Traitor), the other Aliens wanted to keep the Traitor, who kept giving us monkeys up to that point, alive. I agreed and told the Aliens to leave 'the one with the green mask (biohood) alive and uninfected".

All well and good until suddenly one Alien (Hunter 450 for reference) suddently runs up to the Traitor and begins to slash the Traitor to death, without even attempting to infect the Traitor. I order Hunter 450 to stop killing the Traitor but 450 ignores me, eventaully three Aliens and myself are trying to kill 450 (you can't kill aliens as a alien) until eventually 450 continues to ignore me, while calling me a shit Queen for not killing a Human, and spaces itself while dragging the now dead Traitors body.

Now I adminhelped the issue (I think Hibble got the PM) and whoever picked up the phone said that this issue has no prior real precedent, and had to talk with other admins. I don't know if anything came of the issue but that's irrespective to this thread.

-------------------------

The main problem here is that while it is implied that the Queen has ultimate power over any Alien, but that there's no OOC ruling stating that. Meaning technically a Alien could ignore any order given by the Queen, its just that its very rare for a Alien to disobey a Queen.

I put forward that it should become a rule that any order given by the Queen must be obeyed by any Aliens, and that failure to do so can result in the Alien being 'cut off' from the hive (IE: Killed).

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:46 am
by Malkevin
I believe this could be fixed with two code additions:
-A ban system to ban people from aliens (and other round reentry things whilst you're at it).
-Give the queen a verb that brings up a list of aliums, selecting an alien gibs it - just like the AI can do to rogue borgs.

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:49 am
by Steelpoint
It was suggested at the time to give the Queen a way to lock down (force sleep) aliens, which would solve the problem well.

I just wanted to get OOC clarification on the issue as there's no precedent.

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:56 am
by imblyings
It should be treated at least informally as malf ais and malf borgs but with the understanding that a) this is still a fairly recent issue b) there will be times when retarded queens must be ignored for the greater good, in which case responsibility and any possible OOC consequences fall onto the rogue xeno to not fuck up.

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:00 am
by Bluespace
imo it should be treated as "disobey queen, get gibbed".
if queen is bad adminhelp and get them turned into a hunter and have a competent drone evolve.

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:05 am
by Saegrimr
Alien authority aside that guy was being a huge dick.

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:26 pm
by Alex Crimson
Yeah seriously, that seems like grounds for an antag ban. Although with special circumstances like this, with the almost constant spawning of new Aliens, its hard to keep track of things. That one Alien couldve easily not known to leave the human alone, but then spacing the body is suspicious as fuck.

But yeah, the Queen should be giving out orders, and her children should be following them.

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 6:47 pm
by AnonymousNow
Spacing the body was not only suspicious as fuck, but an open act of defiance in the name of murderboning, as 450 bragged openly to the hivemind chat about the kill.

I'm with Steelpoint on this one. Xeno Queen should have executive authority over xenomorphs, as an AI (generally) does over cyborgs, and a Xeno Queen's priority should be survivability and infection over kills.

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:53 am
by Scott
Shoulda slashed the fuck out of him.

I don't think giving alien queens a power to gib other aliens is a good idea, easily abusable.

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:57 am
by Steelpoint
Its impossible for Aliens to kill another Alien, they simply do too little damage.

We had two Hunters and a Queen trying to slash the rogue Hunter to death at the same time, and it made not even a dent.

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:39 am
by Alex Crimson
Yeah whoever added that feature needs to revert it.

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:13 am
by Not-Dorsidarf
Malkevin wrote:I believe this could be fixed with two code additions:
-A ban system to ban people from aliens (and other round reentry things whilst you're at it).
-Give the queen a verb that brings up a list of aliums, selecting an alien gibs it - just like the AI can do to rogue borgs.


I support the first one because it closes a github issue and that makes me happy.

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:02 pm
by Malkevin
Scott wrote:Shoulda slashed the fuck out of him.

I don't think giving alien queens a power to gib other aliens is a good idea, easily abusable.

How would it be abusable ?

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:38 pm
by Scott
Just like cyborgs computer is.

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:51 pm
by Konork
Scott wrote:Just like cyborgs computer is.

The difference being that the cyborg computer can be accessed by anyone who can reach it, while this would only be accessed by the queen. Not to mention that most people probably aren't going to bother trying to build up xenos just to gib them for no reason, and anyone who does do that probably wasn't going to do much of interest.

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:22 pm
by Malkevin
Scott wrote:Just like cyborgs computer is.

Oh right, like how thats not abused despite being very accessible.

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:49 pm
by Kelenius
Because the queen is the fucking queen. If she wants to gib one of aliens, she should be able to. If you don't like it, tough.

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:39 pm
by Scott
Malkevin wrote:
Scott wrote:Just like cyborgs computer is.

Oh right, like how thats not abused despite being very accessible.


Nah, only RD and Captain have access. And it is abused.

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:19 pm
by Malkevin
Roboticists have access to it last I checked.

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:00 pm
by Cheimon
Malkevin wrote:Roboticists have access to it last I checked.


You sure about that? Last time I tried to blow borgs as a roboticist I was access denied.

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:10 pm
by whodaloo
Robo does have access, yes.

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:30 am
by Tunder
Xenotraitor here, DarkNightSin is the shitter hunter in question. Staunchly defended his actions at every opportunity, probably deserves a ban from xenos for ignoring the queen's direct orders.

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:35 am
by lumipharon
THAT motherfucker.

I've seen him fuck around more then once as xeno, it's really fucking annoyin when some shitter hunter is trying to space THE QUEEN, or incite revolt.

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:46 pm
by Not-Dorsidarf
He caught a major ban from Urist for shitting around on lowpop and turning everyone into xenoes despite an admin telling him to chill and cut it out, I remember.

Was he the one who spammed scream so much on basil that the queen threw him out the airlock, at which point he resorted to macro'ing "SUCK MY CHEEZY NUTS" into hivemind?

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:38 pm
by ThanatosRa
What a shining pillar of the community. Probably a good example of at least examining player behavior between servers to look out for shitters.

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:27 pm
by Saegrimr
Its like a community neighborhood watch thing, except for assholes. BUTTWATCH.

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:56 am
by Stan_Studnick
I think I've dealt with that guy before and if it's the same cunt I'm thinking of I'm still pissed off he killed off the entire botany department before I could facehug them and then laughed when I got mad.

Really the reason why this thread exists is banworthy enough but if he's been a shithead other times and on other servers then I'd say he needs to go away forever.

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:58 am
by Laharl Monthy
Mh...I have a short-term memory, but I think I remember him as well - and like everyone here, not in a good way. Dates back about a month...

Round Start. I'm the RD, Oldman Robustin' is a scientist, I smell bombs ahoy. Except, for some reason, 5 minutes into the round, Oldman comes in and asks me where the hell did I hide the Valves. I tell him I don't know, he doesn't believe me. Fine, I'm clearing that up. We both check Toxins and the backroom, nothing is yet set up, and we have a mystery on our hands - after a bit of arguing back and forth, we both come to the conclusion that none of us did the thing.

So, after checking in with who was still in the department, I notice that the Scientist played by DarkNightSin (can't be bothered to remember the name) is missing. I ping him thought Science chat, he denies everything, Oldman and me don't believe him one bit. Cue a bit of chasing once he comes back to the RnD department (that ticked me off even more, I was sure he was the culprit at that point), that leads us to arrivals. After giving him the baton and questioning, he still denies it. Sadly, since I don't have any proofs, I just release the guy.

...And then, he trips me, steals my baton, and runs off never to be seen again. I page Sec to set him on arrest, and pretty much tell the whole department that if he shows up, his ass is to be robusted. In the meanwhile, the fucker also confesses on the radio that he actually stole the valves, to taunt us. He spaced them FNR. (Well, FNR...Oldman was a traitor, but no-one could know that five minutes in.)

Seeing him stuck in the shuttle brig made me quite happy. And yes - he wasn't a traitor, I believe.

Tho I'm suddenly not sure if it was our guy or not, I'm sure CJS would remember it better.

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:06 am
by Tunder
For correlation, as he came here from Plebbit and feels strongly against RP. Perfect background for shittery.

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:29 am
by DNS
just recently started playing again within the past three weeks or so after at a good year or two break. don't know how people are saying I've been a shitter on other servers or caught bans on them when I haven't even logged into them, also @lumi that wasn't me. I definitely would've copped a ban for that if it was, or at least owed up to it.@laharl I don't ever recall spacing any TTV, for any reason, especially considering I avoid the bombmaking aspects of science like a plague because I do not understand jack shit about it, much less even making TTVs, along with the timeframe not adding up as I predominantly play botanist or some other rando service role, and the only science role I've been playing, other than an occasional rando roll RD, is roboticist, to which I just afk until somebody needs some robotics shit done. I don't "feel strongly" against RP.@Tunder I enjoy RP quite a bit. Sybil just isn't the proper environment to enjoy indepth RP in given the breakneck speed it moves at in most cases.

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:13 pm
by Shadowlight213
Can we focus on the policy, and not on the player? Make a ban request if you want to complain about them

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:23 pm
by Tsaricide
Listen to your queen unless they are braindamaged, in that case you should admin help or risk suffering the consequences of not listening to your queen.

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:24 pm
by Wyzack
Isnt the whole point of this thread that there are in fact no consequences?

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:12 pm
by imblyings
Unless something unexpected happens this will be enshrined in the holy codex by which will all swear eternal obedience to

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:33 am
by tuypo1
its good that aliens are treated as team antags now but i honestly cant approve of not killing the scientist xenos shouldent give a fuck about that thing i was one of the aliens that round and i think the queen was foolish for wanting to leave them alive. still i learnt from dealing with hops trying to get in the armory as a warden that its not worth going against your entire department on such things.

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:16 am
by Wyzack
I dunno, i think intelligent xenos would have uses for a live human who was loyal to them, operating machinery and that

Re: Alien Queen Authority Over Aliens

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:33 am
by tuypo1
i suppose so but from what i could tell it was just a case of gratitude.

Eh i suppose its alright and besides a lone survivor might make people think he was helping them which would be pretty funny.