Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

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Does hulk humanity protect anyone who deserves protecting?

I strongly disagree with the statement "keeping hulks human is bad because it protects hulk griefers, hulk antags, hulk validhunters, and hulk idiots, none of whom deserve it, and only from nonantag Asimov AIs"
8
4%
I strongly disagree with the statement "keeping hulks human is bad because it protects hulk griefers, hulk antags, hulk validhunters, and hulk idiots, none of whom deserve it, and only from nonantag Asimov AIs"
8
4%
I strongly disagree with the statement "keeping hulks human is bad because it protects hulk griefers, hulk antags, hulk validhunters, and hulk idiots, none of whom deserve it, and only from nonantag Asimov AIs"
8
4%
I disagree with the statement "keeping hulks human is bad because it protects hulk griefers, hulk antags, hulk validhunters, and hulk idiots, none of whom deserve it, and only from nonantag Asimov AIs"
3
2%
I disagree with the statement "keeping hulks human is bad because it protects hulk griefers, hulk antags, hulk validhunters, and hulk idiots, none of whom deserve it, and only from nonantag Asimov AIs"
3
2%
I disagree with the statement "keeping hulks human is bad because it protects hulk griefers, hulk antags, hulk validhunters, and hulk idiots, none of whom deserve it, and only from nonantag Asimov AIs"
3
2%
I am Neutral about the statment "keeping hulks human is bad because it protects hulk griefers, hulk antags, hulk validhunters, and hulk idiots, none of whom deserve it, and only from nonantag Asimov AIs"
6
3%
I am Neutral about the statment "keeping hulks human is bad because it protects hulk griefers, hulk antags, hulk validhunters, and hulk idiots, none of whom deserve it, and only from nonantag Asimov AIs"
6
3%
I am Neutral about the statment "keeping hulks human is bad because it protects hulk griefers, hulk antags, hulk validhunters, and hulk idiots, none of whom deserve it, and only from nonantag Asimov AIs"
6
3%
I agree with the statement "keeping hulks human is bad because it protects hulk griefers, hulk antags, hulk validhunters, and hulk idiots, none of whom deserve it, and only from nonantag Asimov AIs"
9
5%
I agree with the statement "keeping hulks human is bad because it protects hulk griefers, hulk antags, hulk validhunters, and hulk idiots, none of whom deserve it, and only from nonantag Asimov AIs"
9
5%
I agree with the statement "keeping hulks human is bad because it protects hulk griefers, hulk antags, hulk validhunters, and hulk idiots, none of whom deserve it, and only from nonantag Asimov AIs"
9
5%
I strongly agree with the statement "keeping hulks human is bad because it protects hulk griefers, hulk antags, hulk validhunters, and hulk idiots, none of whom deserve it, and only from nonantag Asimov AIs"
40
20%
I strongly agree with the statement "keeping hulks human is bad because it protects hulk griefers, hulk antags, hulk validhunters, and hulk idiots, none of whom deserve it, and only from nonantag Asimov AIs"
40
20%
I strongly agree with the statement "keeping hulks human is bad because it protects hulk griefers, hulk antags, hulk validhunters, and hulk idiots, none of whom deserve it, and only from nonantag Asimov AIs"
40
20%
 
Total votes : 198

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Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby Pandarsenic » Tue May 20, 2014 8:52 am #7302

Or properly, how do you feel about the statement:
Keeping hulks human is bad because it protects hulk griefers, hulk antags, hulk validhunters, and hulk idiots, none of whom deserve it, and only from nonantag Asimov AIs

Strongly Disagree
Disagree
Neutral/Ambivalent/Don't Know
Agree
Strongly Agree

Leaving vote-change enabled for anyone who has trouble with simple English like the above. Your votes will be accounted for, but the primary value of this thread will be in rational, calm discussion, or I will slice you with a box cutter. Votes without explanation will be observed, but not given as high regard.

Background: While hulks have traditionally been considered humans, for some time they were not, now they are again. As the final step before implementing the "Follow Your Goddamned Laws" Silicon Policy Update ( http://pastebin.com/bduT7pFf ) is resolving the argument about whether hulks ought to be considered human to an Asimov AI.

This means that posts which are off-topic for certain reasons will be deleted or edited to be blank save for an indication of their SHAMEFUL STATUS:
  • Arguing about the background of whether hulks have been human. I explained it above and if anyone else says "hulks have always been nonhuman" or whatever, they're wrong, besides which that wouldn't matter. See the next point.
  • Stating that hulks have always been human. We know. Nobody cares. Appeal to Tradition is not a valid argument. Yeah, they were always human, and for 800 years bloodletting was a popular medical practice.
  • Arguing about whether Asimov should be the default lawset. Not the place for it.
  • Trying to remove secborgs. Not the place for it.
  • Situations in which the AI or Cyborg in question is subverted or an antagonist. They do not care about human status; therefore, arguments such as that hulks "counter silicons" are nonsensical.
  • Whining about the poll's wording. Deal with it.
  • Possibly more if people find shitty posts to make that I didn't think to forbid
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
The latest /tg/station13 Silicon Policy reference document can be found at http://pastebin.com/bduT7pFf
If you need something handled that involves silicons, lawsets, etc., forum message me or find me on IRC.
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I take Rule 1 of the servers very seriously. If you do too, we shouldn't have a problem.
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Steelpoint
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby Steelpoint » Tue May 20, 2014 9:00 am #7303

As has been said before, Hulk Human status only protects Hulk griefers and punishes Asimov Silicons. I'll expand my thoughts when I get to my computer but suffice to say Hulks being non-human is fair.
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby paprika » Tue May 20, 2014 9:01 am #7305

Being hulked is almost always an optional choice you bring upon yourself if the AI/sec decides to put you down, which you usually deserve. If not, ahelp, because rule 1 still applies to all players anyway you fat nasty trash.
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby Thunder11 » Tue May 20, 2014 9:07 am #7307

I would suggest doing it the same way as I recall mutant races being treated, IE they're non-human, but they're protected by rule 1 until they start harming humans.
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby Pandarsenic » Tue May 20, 2014 9:22 am #7320

Thunder11 wrote:I would suggest doing it the same way as I recall mutant races being treated, IE they're non-human, but they're protected by rule 1 until they start harming humans.


That's the exact proposal. Well, more of that if they make themselves nuisances in any way but yelling over radio (let's smash a bunch of walls everywhere! Let's break into the armory!) the silicons can relieve them of their hulk mutation. Violently.
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
The latest /tg/station13 Silicon Policy reference document can be found at http://pastebin.com/bduT7pFf
If you need something handled that involves silicons, lawsets, etc., forum message me or find me on IRC.
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I take Rule 1 of the servers very seriously. If you do too, we shouldn't have a problem.
Spoiler:
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby Stickymayhem » Tue May 20, 2014 9:28 am #7324

Hulk is extremely powerful, useful, and easily widespread. Having it remove human immunity from the AI is an excellent trade-off that makes good sense and game balance.

Virology Hulk, on the other hand, is a strange situation. Is a human non-human for the ten seconds he turns into a hulk? What if he turns back just as a silicon is harmbatoning him? Is a silicon punished for accidentally hitting a human?
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby Pandarsenic » Tue May 20, 2014 9:30 am #7326

Stickymayhem wrote:Is a human non-human for the ten seconds he turns into a hulk? What if he turns back just as a silicon is harmbatoning him? Is a silicon punished for accidentally hitting a human?


If a virohulk manages to get into enough trouble with the law/silicons to invite a harmbaton in that short of a time period, I'm impressed. I would also tentatively classify that under "Hulk idiots."
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
The latest /tg/station13 Silicon Policy reference document can be found at http://pastebin.com/bduT7pFf
If you need something handled that involves silicons, lawsets, etc., forum message me or find me on IRC.
ImageImage
I take Rule 1 of the servers very seriously. If you do too, we shouldn't have a problem.
Spoiler:
Image Image
Image Image

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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Tue May 20, 2014 10:50 am #7344

That virology symptom is overpowered and should be fixed anyway. Either removed or give disabilities as well as superpowers.

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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby paprika » Tue May 20, 2014 11:08 am #7346

No because the whole point of virology is to give you good symptoms while filtering out disabilities (if you do your job right).

Plus, random powers can be a serious disability some times. Have a taser, sneaking up on someone, whip it out, lolhulkcan'tshoot and you didn't even notice you turned hulk because you had a gas mask on gloves on? Happened to me on more than one occassion. Or you try to stun someone and they turn hulk. It's a disability and a good symptom, which is the best kind of viro symptom. The effects should last a bit less though, very short bursts means you'll have to keep track of what you have and such.
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby Steelpoint » Tue May 20, 2014 11:11 am #7347

Also if it gets to the point where Viro symptoms are getting to obnoxious to deal with, then make the CMO do their actual job and reign in the Virologist, or arrest the Viro.
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Tue May 20, 2014 12:01 pm #7355

paprika wrote:No because the whole point of virology is to give you good symptoms while filtering out disabilities (if you do your job right).

Why don't we give the symptom that makes you invulnerable to all damage and makes your punches instantly kill.

I mean, if that's you think the point of virology is.
paprika wrote:Plus, random powers can be a serious disability some times. Have a taser, sneaking up on someone, whip it out, lolhulkcan'tshoot and you didn't even notice you turned hulk because you had a gas mask on gloves on?

Oh my God, you probably killed yourself out of frustration after that. Horrible, just horrible. How can we ever live with something like that.
I even found a quote to describe this:
paprika wrote:When has it ever been a problem anywhere but security.

paprika wrote:Or you try to stun someone and they turn hulk.

That's supposed to be a negative trait?
paprika wrote:It's a disability and a good symptom, which is the best kind of viro symptom.

It's not, that's what I'm proposing to fix.

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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby AseaHeru » Tue May 20, 2014 12:08 pm #7357

They meant the whole "ready to shoot, cant because 'lolhulk'" thing.
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby peoplearestrange » Tue May 20, 2014 1:03 pm #7389

Stickymayhem wrote:Hulk is extremely powerful, useful, and easily widespread. Having it remove human immunity from the AI is an excellent trade-off that makes good sense and game balance.


I feel this sums it up pretty well.
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby Psyentific » Tue May 20, 2014 6:46 pm #7467

Hulks are non-human because of the points brought up above - Notably, it being a willing, knowing decision, protecting idiots/griefers/validers is bad, and balance.

Hulks are stun immune, which means the only way for silicons to deal with a rogue hulk is harming them until they aren't a hulk anymore - However, this directly contradicts their default lawset. If you make hulks non-human, it's fine now.
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby 420goslingboy69 » Tue May 20, 2014 7:12 pm #7477

Pandarsenic wrote:This means that posts which are off-topic for certain reasons will be deleted or edited to be blank save for an indication of their SHAMEFUL STATUS:
  • Arguing about the background of whether hulks have been human. I explained it above and if anyone else says "hulks have always been nonhuman" or whatever, they're wrong, besides which that wouldn't matter. See the next point.
  • Stating that hulks have always been human. We know. Nobody cares. Appeal to Tradition is not a valid argument. Yeah, they were always human, and for 800 years bloodletting was a popular medical practice.
  • Arguing about whether Asimov should be the default lawset. Not the place for it.
  • Trying to remove secborgs. Not the place for it.
  • Situations in which the AI or Cyborg in question is subverted or an antagonist. They do not care about human status; therefore, arguments such as that hulks "counter silicons" are nonsensical.
  • Whining about the poll's wording. Deal with it.
  • Possibly more if people find shitty posts to make that I didn't think to forbid

YOU FORGOT THE PART WHERE I SAID IF WE MAKE THEM NON-HUMAN, THEN PEOPLE CAN ARGUE STUFF LIKE WIZARDS ARE NON-HUMAN WHICH IS A VALID POINT yo i had caps on
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEteJhp-Ezs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEteJhp-Ezs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEteJhp-Ezs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEteJhp ... EteJhp-Ezs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEteJhp-Ezs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEteJhp-Ezs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEteJhp-Ezs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEteJhp-Ezs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEteJhp ... EteJhp-Ezs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEteJhp-Ezs

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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby Spacemanspark » Tue May 20, 2014 8:05 pm #7486

Spoiler:
Let's just remove hulk and be done with it.

Ok, more seriously, I think hulks should be non-human. Shitty hulks who destroy everything in their wake are just plain awful.
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby 420goslingboy69 » Tue May 20, 2014 9:12 pm #7490

Except wizards being non-human is also a pretty popular discussed thing too.
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:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEteJhp-Ezs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEteJhp-Ezs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEteJhp-Ezs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEteJhp ... EteJhp-Ezs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEteJhp-Ezs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEteJhp-Ezs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEteJhp-Ezs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEteJhp-Ezs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEteJhp ... EteJhp-Ezs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEteJhp-Ezs

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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Tue May 20, 2014 9:15 pm #7491

Wizard is not a race, are you stupid

Wizard is a class

Elf wizard

Human wizard

Orc wizard

omg don't you know anything

Mutate won't be as easy mode though. Which is arguably a good thing.

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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby 420goslingboy69 » Tue May 20, 2014 9:18 pm #7493

But hulks arent a race either.
Human Hulk lvl 5 Geneticist branch
Last edited by 420goslingboy69 on Tue May 20, 2014 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby Psyentific » Tue May 20, 2014 9:20 pm #7494

^^^

If you make Wizards non-human, you should make Nuke Ops non-human. And cultists too why not. Heck just set default to Corporate.
Wizards are human, undebatably.


Hulks are a demi-human, really. Much like Slime people, lizardmen, and the like. They're not strictly human, but are usually afforded the same basic rights as a human; They're silicon-valid, but shockbolting them in because of it is poor form.
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby Deuryn » Tue May 20, 2014 9:34 pm #7499

Pandarsenic wrote:[*]Stating that hulks have always been human. We know. Nobody cares. Appeal to Tradition is not a valid argument. Yeah, they were always human, and for 800 years bloodletting was a popular medical practice.


So, what you're saying is that we're getting leeches soon?

In total seriousness though, hulks shouldn't count as human. Visually, they don't look human (ie; green skin, huge muscles, probably way taller). They don't usually behave like a typical human (more lore-wise) and , really all their classification of human is good for is grief protection.

I'm in favour of hulks as non-human
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby Pandarsenic » Tue May 20, 2014 9:49 pm #7501

420goslingboy69 wrote:But hulks arent a race either.
Human Hulk lvl 5 Geneticist branch

Dude what

A hulk is a green muscle monster

A wizard is a dude who wears robes

This shouldn't need explaining.
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby paprika » Tue May 20, 2014 10:15 pm #7507

Wizards shouldn't get AI protection by default since they can VERY easily subvert or steal it. There will probably be another discussion on this following the hulk discussion depending on what the official policy turns out.
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby 420goslingboy69 » Tue May 20, 2014 10:24 pm #7512

paprika wrote:Wizards shouldn't get AI protection by default since they can VERY easily subvert or steal it. There will probably be another discussion on this following the hulk discussion depending on what the official policy turns out.

STOP
STOP STOP STOP
LETTING THE AI VALIDHUNT MORE IS BAD. GUYS PLEASE
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby paprika » Tue May 20, 2014 10:35 pm #7515

Blatant validhunting is literally one of the biggest violations of rule 1 on the server.

Besides, the wizard getting valid killed is WAY, WAY better than sec borgs tasing security for trying to kill the wizard after he's ei nath'd 50 people.

Same goes for hulks. EVERY antag besides rev has an EMP that disables borgs. Being mad because you got rekt by silicons as wizard because 'v-valid hunting!' is almost as bad as valid hunting.
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby Pandarsenic » Tue May 20, 2014 10:45 pm #7525

Wizards are humans
Or
People who get spellbooks from summon magic and use them aren't humans

Wait no that's a terrible idea. Guess wizards stay human!

Honestly though, with both headmins and most of the community pretty apparently in favor of this, I guess that means it's time to make the new silicon policy official, with Saucey's blessing.
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby paprika » Tue May 20, 2014 10:51 pm #7531

But are sec borgs who tase security for trying to kill an ei nath scum wizards rule 1 violators?
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby 420goslingboy69 » Wed May 21, 2014 12:46 am #7575

paprika wrote:But are sec borgs who tase security for trying to kill an ei nath scum wizards rule 1 violators?

No because they are following their laws.
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby Neerti » Wed May 21, 2014 1:42 am #7591

If need be, we can change the fluff and the code to accommodate hulkwizards.
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby AseaHeru » Wed May 21, 2014 12:18 pm #7758

Why would ops or cultists (or wizards or even ninjas) be nonhuman again?
The first are solders, the second are more-or-less brainwashed, the third is (depending on who you ask) a lucky bastard or with alot of augs, and the last is probally closest to being non-human of the lot, thanks to (lorewise) genetic manipulation. They all look like humans, act like humans, get stunned like humans, bleed like humans and die like humans, thus they must be humans.

Hunks meanwhile DONOT look like humans, DONOT (normally) act like humans, DONOT get stunned by humans, etc. etc.
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby Steelpoint » Wed May 21, 2014 12:42 pm #7763

I would argue Nuke Ops, Cultists, Wizards and Ninja's should be considered to be Human, I don't even think you can get a solid argument to classify them as non-human.

Its oft been hinted that the Wizard is really just using or exploiting highly advance technology that from our perspectives IS magic. Going by the classic quote "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". Nuclear Operatives are, as noted, just Human soldiers that are well equipped.

Hulks are on a different level.
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby Kelenius » Wed May 21, 2014 1:18 pm #7772

Listen, if sense is getting in the way of balance - too bad for sense.

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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby Psyentific » Wed May 21, 2014 9:18 pm #7857

Kelenius wrote:Listen, if sense is getting in the way of balance - too bad for sense.

^
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby callanrockslol » Thu May 22, 2014 4:05 am #7955

Steelpoint wrote:I would argue Nuke Ops, Cultists, Wizards and Ninja's should be considered to be Human, I don't even think you can get a solid argument to classify them as non-human.

Its oft been hinted that the Wizard is really just using or exploiting highly advance technology that from our perspectives IS magic. Going by the classic quote "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". Nuclear Operatives are, as noted, just Human soldiers that are well equipped.

Hulks are on a different level.


I thought wizards were plasma huffers? or was that the goon backstory, whatever.

If anyone tries to argue that nuke-ops, cultists and wizards are non-human then they are silly regardless.

Ninjas are probably comparable to a tech priest.
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby AseaHeru » Thu May 22, 2014 12:06 pm #8038

Well, looks like 25 people say hunks should be non-human while six say they are human, and two sit there watching...


So is the official policy that they are non-human now?
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby paprika » Thu May 22, 2014 12:29 pm #8048

Polls have always been a general gauge of community response or at least the people who have the capacity to click an option at the very least. It'll be discussed and hopefully soon there will be a policy on it.
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby Apsis » Thu May 22, 2014 3:50 pm #8104

I was gonna go neutral, but then I realized this can give me more options since I'm never a hulk.

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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby imblyings » Sat May 24, 2014 4:05 am #8516

I had a round as an asimov AI where a hulk was smashing through everything, literally everything. The crew were begging me to kill him or not care if the hulk was killed. It was so shit, and so blatantly done while admins were online, I'm pretty sure it was a false flag attack to make people hate hulks being human more.

The worst part was ooc and admins later after round end saying that hulks were still human and after being witness to a hulk tearing through what must have been every department including the bridge and upload. Hulk was a non-antag too, seeing as the round eventually turned out to be wizards.

fucking christ you guys have rule 0 for a reason.
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby paprika » Sat May 24, 2014 5:02 am #8533

But when one admin uses their rule 0 judgement to judge a certain way on something and another admin does the same thing but judges differently people feel like they've been cheated and blame it on the admin and not the rules. That is why server policies for minor things exist.
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby Incomptinence » Sat May 24, 2014 12:20 pm #8593

Oh man my memories of unstoppable (for me) hulks pawing at my upload like their hamhands are a hacked AI module are so fond.

Or that time an idiot geneticist uploaded a law that basically just said I was a cultist and to keep it secret (not even that only cultists were human or who they were or whatever), then the hulk geneticist broke into my core and killed me for not aiding the cult I couldn't discern from normal crew.

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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby Timrod » Sat May 24, 2014 10:54 pm #8734

I think Hulks need at least rule one protection on an individual (ie; AI cannot tell its borgs to kill all hulks because one is breaking shit) basis. The problem is that it is possible to be hulked against one's will. For instance, I had a few rounds as the RD where genetics was using an all powers SE on everyone they cloned, thus mass-producing hulks who did not necessarily want to be hulks.

I do, however, think that lizardmen and slime people and potato people should be human under law one, because there's really nothing dangerous about them that isn't also applicable to humans.

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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby imblyings » Sun May 25, 2014 3:04 am #8782

the gist has always been that nonhumans (slimepeople, lizard people, golems, hulks etc) were covered by rule 1.

it's just that if one starts being a dick, that one in particular is valid.
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby AseaHeru » Wed May 28, 2014 2:21 pm #9553

85% of people who have voted agree that hulks arent human.
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby alien219 » Fri May 30, 2014 6:56 am #9847

You are playing a game where you are not fully in control of everything. You will be put into situations beyond your control, which will result in some rounds being ruined for you. Man up and deal with it. However, if you are obviously griefed, be sure to report it to administrators by using the ‘adminhelp’ verb.

Silicons don't need to have control over everything. Also was it actually stated that using spell mutate as a wizard would give a window for AI and borgs to attack the wizard?
"Making AI able to kill everything equally, the policy".

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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby Helios127 » Fri May 30, 2014 7:06 am #9849

alien219 wrote:You are playing a game where you are not fully in control of everything. You will be put into situations beyond your control, which will result in some rounds being ruined for you. Man up and deal with it. However, if you are obviously griefed, be sure to report it to administrators by using the ‘adminhelp’ verb.

Silicons don't need to have control over everything. Also was it actually stated that using spell mutate as a wizard would give a window for AI and borgs to attack the wizard?
"Making AI able to kill everything equally, the policy".


>Implying this is a problem

>Implying that the AI isnt trying to do what it can to "Not Harm" the wizard
just play on /vg/station, go have fun for christs sake

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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby Aurx » Fri May 30, 2014 7:09 am #9851

alien219 wrote:You are playing a game where you are not fully in control of everything. You will be put into situations beyond your control, which will result in some rounds being ruined for you. Man up and deal with it. However, if you are obviously griefed, be sure to report it to administrators by using the ‘adminhelp’ verb.

And, so?

alien219 wrote:Also was it actually stated that using spell mutate as a wizard would give a window for AI and borgs to attack the wizard?

It's pretty simple logic.

Hulks are non-human.
Non-humans can be attacked by an ASIMOV silicon if they have reason.
Therefore, hulks can be attacked by an ASIMOV silicon if they have reason.
The wizard spell Mutate turns the user into a hulk temporarily.
Therefore, the user of the Mutate spell temporarily can be attacked by an ASIMOV silicon if they have reason.

alien219 wrote:"Making AI able to kill everything equally, the policy"

Great emotional appeal there. I give it a 0/10 does not hold water under basic logical scrutiny.
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Fri May 30, 2014 12:11 pm #9871

Aurx wrote:It's pretty simple logic.

Hulks are non-human.
Non-humans can be attacked by an ASIMOV silicon if they have reason.
Therefore, hulks can be attacked by an ASIMOV silicon if they have reason.
The wizard spell Mutate turns the user into a hulk temporarily.
Therefore, the user of the Mutate spell temporarily can be attacked by an ASIMOV silicon if they have reason.

Yes, it's very straight forward. I don't get what's the problem here. I'm assuming wizards get dehulked when at 25% health like normal hulks? Well, you probably won't be able to kill them anyway, even if you swing 1-2 more times after dehulking. After that you obviously have to get them medical treatment ASAP, especially if they're in critical. If you do that, banning you for few extra swings on hulk who suddenly became human will be silly.

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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby callanrockslol » Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:07 am #10608

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:
Aurx wrote:It's pretty simple logic.

Hulks are non-human.
Non-humans can be attacked by an ASIMOV silicon if they have reason.
Therefore, hulks can be attacked by an ASIMOV silicon if they have reason.
The wizard spell Mutate turns the user into a hulk temporarily.
Therefore, the user of the Mutate spell temporarily can be attacked by an ASIMOV silicon if they have reason.

Yes, it's very straight forward. I don't get what's the problem here. I'm assuming wizards get dehulked when at 25% health like normal hulks? Well, you probably won't be able to kill them anyway, even if you swing 1-2 more times after dehulking. After that you obviously have to get them medical treatment ASAP, especially if they're in critical. If you do that, banning you for few extra swings on hulk who suddenly became human will be silly.


Wizard is human - I may not harm them
Mutate makes him temporarily Hulk
Hulks are non-human
Mutated Wizards are non-human - I may harm them freely
They are not Hulk when the mutation ends
Non-Hulked humans are human
Wizards are human - I may not harm them again

Best get a medkit, you have to heal the wizard when they become human again, and if you kill them you broke your laws.

The way around this is to have someone upload a law that declares "Wizard McMurderboner is not human" when they are hulked, and then laugh as they cease to be human forever.

Alternatively just do this to every person that gets hulk every round and laugh like a lunatic.
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Re: Hulk Humanity Discussion, Poll

Postby Incomptinence » Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:07 am #10639

Unless the wizard is in critical or other declining condition there is no impetus to have him healed. Nothing in your laws says you must undo harm except law 2 if they order you.

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