Lizard Clown = Human Harm [AI laws]

[Void Slayer]

Slipping causes human harm, if a janitor or clown lizard is repeatedly hurting humans like this it seems like the AI has to intervene.

Normally I am a pretty laid back AI with regards to lizards and when this came up so far I basically asked them to stop and told security.

But if someone tells me to murder Trips-The-Humans because he keeps dragging them onto banana peels, what should I be doing?

[Kelenius]

Slipping causes human harm

Que?

[newfren]

Slipping causes human harm

Que?

Sometimes falling over does minor brute all over your body ok now you're caught up.

[imblyings]

I thought slipping only causes harm if the thing you're holding does brute damage to you/if you slipped on lube.

edit- as for humans ordering you to kill lizards, while you're free to delay or loophole around it if you think it's some griffing faggot, you are possibly free to just carry out the order. Any blame/consequences will then just be directed at the person who gave the order, not the silicon who carried it out. Ahelp first though when in doubt.

[CPTANT]

If a human orders you to kill a non-human than you kill it.

I see zero reason why there would be any difference between doing this in a syndicate lawset, one-human lawset or asimov lawset.

Asimov AI is not the complete hugsbox people think it is.


edit: stupid word filter

[imblyings]

because the human element means sometimes players know that it's a non-antag being a griffing shit and don't want to enable him or ruin the round of another player, which is an incredibly understandable sentiment I don't just approve of, it's one I may or may not accept as an excuse if a non-antag shitter ahelps an AI who seems reluctant to kill a non-human for no good reason.

although yes you're technically right

[DaemonBomb]

Superfluous injury of Lizardmen may sour Human-Lizard relations and lead to lizardriots on the home colonies. Lizardriots are HAAAAARMFUL.
Lizard riots are also considered, under Nanotrasen's Rules and Regulations for Workplace Eroticism, a form of rape.

[tuypo1]

just tell the crew about the order so they can override it if they ask you to be secretive about it they are likely up to something call sec on them.

[CPTANT]

just tell the crew about the order so they can override it if they ask you to be secretive about it they are likely up to something call sec on them.

*AI law 2 do not state or hint at this order.*

*calls security*

wut?

there is ZERO indication that this person is about to inflict HUMAN harm, therefore it makes zero sense to stop him.

This is exactly what is wrong with how most people play asimov.

[tuypo1]

just tell the crew about the order so they can override it if they ask you to be secretive about it they are likely up to something call sec on them.

*AI law 2 do not state or hint at this order.*

*calls security*

wut?

there is ZERO indication that this person is about to inflict HUMAN harm, therefore it makes zero sense to stop him.

This is exactly what is wrong with how most people play asimov.

in general your right but its well established that you sometimes have to bend things a little to keep shiters from killing lizards and get away with it

[CPTANT]

just tell the crew about the order so they can override it if they ask you to be secretive about it they are likely up to something call sec on them.

*AI law 2 do not state or hint at this order.*

*calls security*

wut?

there is ZERO indication that this person is about to inflict HUMAN harm, therefore it makes zero sense to stop him.

This is exactly what is wrong with how most people play asimov.

in general your right but its well established that you sometimes have to bend things a little to keep shiters from killing lizards and get away with it

That "not getting away with it" part is called an ahelp. What you want is to curb a perfectly viable way for antag's to kill non-humans because some other twat might abuse the system.
The AI is not there to make "valid" calls every time someone orders someone dead, it is there to play its part in the game.

Shitters rarely include a secrecy order anyway.

Usually its just "AI KILL LIZARD NOW" over the common channel.
On which you reply on the common channel: "affirmative, commencing purge of non-humanoid entity"

If nobody counter order you then they are just stupid.

[Tornadium]

just tell the crew about the order so they can override it if they ask you to be secretive about it they are likely up to something call sec on them.

*AI law 2 do not state or hint at this order.*

*calls security*

wut?

there is ZERO indication that this person is about to inflict HUMAN harm, therefore it makes zero sense to stop him.

This is exactly what is wrong with how most people play asimov.

in general your right but its well established that you sometimes have to bend things a little to keep shiters from killing lizards and get away with it

>Shiters

I'm sorry why is encouraging the Lizard genocide a bad thing?

[tuypo1]

just remove lizards it solves all these problems

also i have never had an order to kill a lizard randomly.

[Cheimon]

I thought slipping only causes harm if the thing you're holding does brute damage to you/if you slipped on lube.

Nah, it definitely hurts more often than that. I've been slipped recently with nothing in my hands and still got injured. It's definitely harmful with water, I'm not certain about the peels or the clown's PDA.

[Tornadium]

Most slips seem to hurt from what I've noticed.

[Xhagi]

Yes, I believe all slips now cause a very, very minor amount of brute damage.

As an AI, though, if ordered to explicitly kill a non-human, you can always ahelp for clarifying. And even if you do follow it, the person who gave the order will get the bwoink after you say who ordered it. Can't fault an AI for following it's laws, and hardly anyone says Asimov is a good lawset for many reasons.

Killing someone just because they're slipping people doing their job (cleaning or clowning) is just retarded, though.

[Wyzack]

This snowflake lizard bullshit is everything wrong with the lizard race. Your nonhuman status is the only downside, and yet people still bitch and moan about it. Bloating our silicon policy even further is a shit idea.

The best solution here is to allow silicons to kill nonhumans whenever ordered, but have it dealt with under nonantag murder where the guy who have the order is held liable as if he revolvered them to death. Problem solved.

[Saegrimr]

If someone orders a borg to kill a lizard and he does it, I will gladly ban the person making that order.

You can also expect a ban for the first person to bring up KILL ALL LIZARDS for every single player that dies in the following riot.

[rockpecker]

just tell the crew about the order so they can override it if they ask you to be secretive about it they are likely up to something call sec on them.

Wow. If it were up to me, you'd be banned from AI just for posting this. Fortunately it's not up to me.

Okay, look. Stopping players from being gratuitous jerks to each other is the admins' job. The AI is not an admin role that gets assigned to one lucky player every round so they can enjoy the thrill of absolute power. The AI is not in command of the station, either. The AI is not, and must not be, more important than everyone else.

The AI is a servant. The AI's job, under Asimov, is exactly what the laws say: prevent humans from getting hurt, and other than that, do whatever they tell you. If someone orders you to kill a lizard, you kill the lizard. If they order you not to tell anyone about it, you don't fucking rat them out to security.

[Xhagi]

The problem isn't the AI but the people telling it to kill non-humans FNR or for shit reasons, which falls under a rule 1 violation. Human or non-human character, there is still a person behind that character, and ruining their round or being shit to them without a solid justifiable reason will lead to action being taken against those people who decide to be shit.

[DaemonBomb]

This snowflake lizard bullshit is everything wrong with the lizard race. Your nonhuman status is the only downside,

Well... that and
No hulk
No head roles
Larger sprite
Can't effectively disguise as the majority of players
We are having a discussion right now about whether or not it is okay to kill a lizard clown for clowning
It is a meme to kill them.


Honestly, the gas the liggers xD meme has always struck me as a little odd ever since I began playing TG.
It's not like it's about snowflake roleplayers because no one on here gives a shit about roleplay...
It's not like powergamers play them, cause all they are is a direct downgrade...
It's not like it's a part of the WH40K meme or the HFY stuff cause TG isn't actually /tg/...

[TheNightingale]

Honestly, the gas the liggers xD meme has always struck me as a little odd ever since I began playing TG.

It's a Holocaust joke, casual racism, a bad pun, sheer assholery, and the N-word, all rolled into one. /tg/station13 in a nutshell, really.

[DaemonBomb]

Honestly, the gas the liggers xD meme has always struck me as a little odd ever since I began playing TG.

It's a Holocaust joke, casual racism, a bad pun, sheer assholery, and the N-word, all rolled into one. /tg/station13 in a nutshell, really.

That I get. I understand it when it's IC. In IC it adds some flavor, and it can be kinda funny sometimes. When it's out of the game, in the forums and shit, when it's not a joke and is actually people getting actually upset over the existence of lizards in their spess, that's when I get confused. I dunno, I guess I'm going off topic.

[Danowar]

Honestly, the gas the liggers xD meme has always struck me as a little odd ever since I began playing TG.

It's a Holocaust joke, casual racism, a bad pun, sheer assholery, and the N-word, all rolled into one. /tg/station13 in a nutshell, really.

I wouldn't mind the racism as much if people didn't get so physical about it. Seeing nonantags commit literal hate crimes on lizards for entertainment and getting away with it seems kind of wrong to me. Rarely do I ever see anyone actually get in trouble for it, either.

[Saegrimr]

Because you aren't ahelping it.

[Void Slayer]

Thank you for the responses this really helps give context. Normally I consider lizards as helpful xenos who are able to prevent harm thanks to their working with humans so unless they actually cause harm I am going to dismiss law 2 orders to murder and prevent them from doing their jobs.

Assistant lizards are on their own those useless curs.

[CPTANT]

Thank you for the responses this really helps give context. Normally I consider lizards as helpful xenos who are able to prevent harm thanks to their working with humans so unless they actually cause harm I am going to dismiss law 2 orders to murder and prevent them from doing their jobs.

Assistant lizards are on their own those useless curs.

You are the embodiment of what is wrong with most AI players.

[peoplearestrange]

In all honesty a lot of this falls under rule 1 of the server. If someone is being a dick for the sake of it, or IF you're in ANY doubt as an Silicon, just Ahelp it. We can check things out fairly quickly and stop things happing before they get to the point of bannage and the like.

Asking first is always better than trying to explain later, even if your the "innocent" 3rd party in the situation.

[onleavedontatme]

The laws are not ambiguous. If a human orders you to kill anon-human you kill the non-human.

If someone one humans the AI and tells it to kill all the non humans the uploader is responsible.

Why would lizards be different?

[oranges]

yeah the person who ordered you to kill them will basically be on the hook for murder, and if you're a non antag and they're a non antag then they gonna get bannnnnnnnnnnnnned

[tuypo1]

just tell the crew about the order so they can override it if they ask you to be secretive about it they are likely up to something call sec on them.

Wow. If it were up to me, you'd be banned from AI just for posting this. Fortunately it's not up to me.

I should be clearer I don't mean that's what ai players should do im saying that's what they should be allowed to do and if you still wanted me banned after that clarification holy shit what sort of gigantic fucking fagot would want to punish somebody for suggesting policy in the policy discussion forum.

[callanrockslol]

Honestly, the gas the liggers xD meme has always struck me as a little odd ever since I began playing TG.

It's a Holocaust joke, casual racism, a bad pun, sheer assholery, and the N-word, all rolled into one. /tg/station13 in a nutshell, really.

That I get. I understand it when it's IC. In IC it adds some flavor, and it can be kinda funny sometimes. When it's out of the game, in the forums and shit, when it's not a joke and is actually people getting actually upset over the existence of lizards in their spess, that's when I get confused. I dunno, I guess I'm going off topic.

People here are generally not fond of super special snowflakes, its not as bad as it was.