/tg/Station 13

I had a person suspected of lighting/releasing plasma set to arrest, I arrest them, they immediently start screaming "SEC ROUGE" and screaming their location and claiming I'm going to kill them. I take that as confirmation they're a shitter and toss them in perma. Tsar boinks me and tells me I have to let them go and it's not reason to perma someone.

That's bullshit, screaming sec rouge when the officer is simply doing their job should be a one way ticket to perma.

Are we back to the old days of hamstrung security?

I err on the side of caution when I talk about situations lacking complete context, so what I say may be irrelevant if there's more to this story than what is presented.

Personally I likely would have either given the individual a 10 minute sentence or a long stay in perma, depending on how vitriol the offender is. If someone you arrest immediently jumps to screaming the officer is rogue and is going to kill them, without the officer doing anything else, then I don't have any sympathy for them.

That's exactly what happened, I just stunned and cuffed them when they were set to arrest, and then "(name) ROUGE!!!!!" "HELP" "(location) HELP"

I'm pretty sure there is somewhere in some policy page or space law that says you can perma people for screaming sec rogue and trying to get you lynched etc.

The round isn't even over yet.

I'm pretty sure we just gutted 99% of the old Sec rules, so the actions made by the OP seemed justified imo.

The rule situation however is based on the admins opinion. While personally I feel someone screaming shitcurity and claiming your going to kill them, without cause or justification, is fair game for perma. Whereas other's may disagree.

I think the admin here believes that shouting obscenities in such a manner does not warrant a perma sentence.

I would have gotten banned for perma'ing him. He continued to scream over the radio until I stripped it even after I took him to the brig and pulled free of the gathering crowd where I arrested him, and he still kept screaming his location and "HELP" into the radio.

There's no information on names or what round this was, but now we know I guess.

I also adminhelped what to do beforehand, because someone who does these type of things in my experience isn't going to stop, but got no response.

against shitters, the gulag is literally the best weapon you have. perma will get them whining to admins and with a ten minute sentence they can just go browse the internet for a bit, but slapping them in the gulag will 99% of the time just get them to suicide or straight up afk since "omg i actually have to work off my sentence?" more officers should use the gulag more often, literally the best way to take care of shit like this.

Deitus wrote:against shitters, the gulag is literally the best weapon you have. perma will get them whining to admins and with a ten minute sentence they can just go browse the internet for a bit, but slapping them in the gulag will 99% of the time just get them to suicide or straight up afk since "omg i actually have to work off my sentence?" more officers should use the gulag more often, literally the best way to take care of shit like this.

I was told I couldn't do ANYTHING to him, because apparently the reason he was set to arrest in the first place was wrong because he was just near the site where the fire was started (I wouldn't have known that) but simply shouting sec rouge and trying to start a riot is clearly a crime in itself.

But it's true.
Sec is rouge. (The Detective is brown, though.)

I was in the round in question, and the guy you're talking about was acting pretty shifty. I took him off arrest when we found the real plasma flooder, but he was our primary suspect for quite a while.

rdght91 wrote:I would have gotten banned for perma'ing him. He continued to scream over the radio until I stripped it even after I took him to the brig and pulled free of the gathering crowd where I arrested him, and he still kept screaming his location and "HELP" into the radio.

There's no information on names or what round this was, but now we know I guess.

Nathan ward here, you falsely arrested me.

I was in chemistry, making the new healing chems in the lab and all of a sudden as im making omnizime from branches, comes in and sprays me with pepperspray, doesnt see that work. I asked him what the hell was he doing, he then immediatly stuns me, knowing I didn't do anything I do scream out that he's fucking rogue because he's arresting me without speaking a single word acting shady as hell.

He then takes me to the brig, im not screaming on the radio im talking to the AI through medcoms to please tell security ive been in chem all shift and have done nothing wrong, he then takes me into the evidence room and strips me of my chem satchel, and earpiece as I ask the ai to watch over me because the guy is acting extremely shady without speaking a single word except saying i started a fire. (No investigation was put into the incident, someone just said ''HE DID IT'' and I get set to wanted))

After that, he takes me to perma, straight jackets me, and injects me with an entire bottle of morphine (Lets not forget that part ) and then tosses me in perma, while jacketed on the bed. After tsar makes him free me, I come to find out im addicted to morphine and I asked tsar to cure me of it, very aggravated right now and I probably made tsar angry as well.

This guy shouldn't be sec if he sees injecting someone with a lethal amount of morphine and straight jacketing them the reason for saying sec rogue over radio when he falsely arrested me when i was in chem all round long..

And trying to start a riot? How is that trying to start a riot, thats trying to get HELP from you arresting me for no reason, I was no where near the fire I did not leave the lab AT ALL.

rdght91 wrote:claiming I'm going to kill them

I'll take things that didn't happen for 100 points.

> https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Guide_to_security

> If they're yelling about security being rogue / security killing them / etc. while you're actually not, feel free to go straight for asking for a permabrig.

'Nuff said. Valid as salad, though these days you no one asks for permission from the HoS/Captain to permabrig, let alone execute in some circumstances (rule was never followed in the slightest anyway). Don't think it's an actual rule any more either, since if memory serves, sec regulations were lifted a bit.

I injected you with morphine (not a lethal amount) AFTER you had been screaming into the radio. I told you exactly why you were arrested once I was safely in brig, and I had no time to do in when I was arresting you because 1. You would have saxed away and 2. A bunch of crewmembers were crowding around and running to respond to your help call.

Tsaricide wrote:

rdght91 wrote:claiming I'm going to kill them

I'll take things that didn't happen for 100 points.

Screaming I'm rouge, spamming help and his location while dragging him away to the brig is claiming I'm going to kill him.

Not a lethal amount? Tsarcide had to HEAL ME OF THE ADDICTION you dont inject someone with a full bottle of morphine. And no, they were not noone even showed up. its the medbay, you cant use people coming into the medbay a sign of ''THE GREYTIDE BACKUP IS COMING'' when there was a large fire and plenty of other shit going on.

This is a clear case of if the victim simply cooperated, even passively, then this would be a non-issue. Instead the victim harassed the Officer and pushed the situation to where it is now.

It takes effort to scream shitcurity.

Harrassed the officer, how was he harrassed? Do explain steelpoint. He perma'd me for saying he was rogue, when he randomly comes in stuns/cuffs me when I didn't even retaliate to the pepper spraying. Noone questioned me, noone asked me questions. He was comepletely out of line for what he did with injecting/jacketing me in perma.

I was going to ask you questions and let you go because the only evidence we had was someone saying you were near the plasma tank when it got opened, but when you kept screaming I perma'ed you for inciting a riot. I injected you with morphine so you couldn't just tell the AI to get out or use them to spam comms about me being rouge (and possibly getting me lynched).

The initial arrest seemed fine, if your going into arrest a potential high threat then your not going to waste time by having idle conversation with someone who would most likely try and kill you.

Ask any regular, and good, security player and they'll tell you that when they arrest someone they don't stop until they've dragged them to the brig.

Until someone gets logs of exactly what both parties said, so I can see how justified the actions were, I can't comment further.

rdght91 wrote:I was going to ask you questions and let you go because the only evidence we had was someone saying you were near the plasma tank when it got opened, but when you kept screaming I perma'ed you for inciting a riot. I injected you with morphine so you couldn't just tell the AI to get out or use them to spam comms about me being rouge (and possibly getting me lynched).

Caught ya in a lie.

You removed my headset, so how could I do that? I had no ways of communicating what so ever, I was straight jacketed so I couldn't even use my PDA/ speaker in the room doesnt transmit.

Also, yes please someone get logs of my radio contact after I said sec rogue in the chem lab. I was asking the AI why i was wanted, and asked it to tell security i was innocent.

You don't tell someone why you're arresting them until they're somewhere secure, or they'll get kidnapped or use a freedom implant and kill you. Security 101.
It doesn't make them rogue (or rouge), it makes them efficient.
Being a suspect in a grand sabotage case doesn't let Sec morphine/straitjacket you, but shouting "SEC ROUGE" does. Morphine addictions aren't lethal, either, they're just really annoying.
There was an investigation in place (I was the Detective), and before we got conclusive evidence against the other guy, you were the #1 suspect. If you hadn't have shouted "SEC ROUGE", you wouldn't have been punished for it. (Asking another officer, or myself, "Why am I in here?" would've worked just as well, so long as we weren't busy.)

sirnat wrote:

rdght91 wrote:I was going to ask you questions and let you go because the only evidence we had was someone saying you were near the plasma tank when it got opened, but when you kept screaming I perma'ed you for inciting a riot. I injected you with morphine so you couldn't just tell the AI to get out or use them to spam comms about me being rouge (and possibly getting me lynched).

Caught ya in a lie.

You removed my headset, so how could I do that? I had no ways of communicating what so ever, I was straight jacketed so I couldn't even use my PDA/ speaker in the room doesnt transmit.

Also, yes please someone get logs of my radio contact after I said sec rogue in the chem lab. I was asking the AI why i was wanted, and asked it to tell security i was innocent.

I removed your headset after you had been screaming your head off and after I told you why you were in and kept screaming your location. I put you to sleep so that if a borg wandered by or the AI showed up in your cell you couldn't law 2 your way out. It's fair to assume that someone who is willing to scream their head off about me being rouge will use whatever opportunity to escape and "get revenge." I would have used N20 but I couldn't find a spare mask.

I know your all hot and bothered to get me banned for doing exactly my job despite you being as difficult as possible, but first please explain what exactly I lied about.

You saying I screamed my location on the way to the brig, etc. I said, "Sec rogue, chemistry please help" probably in all caps.

Who fucking said I was near the plasma first off.

Saying Sec rogue when you randomly arrest me and dont explain a god damn thing is very well something im going to do to keep myself protected.

I didn't scream at all going to the brig, I was talking to the AI on my radio as you dragged me to brig.

Noone followed us to the brig, or even came to medbay because i said sec rogue.

Maybe if you wouldn't have perma'd me, as well as jacketing me/morphining me to the point where i was addicted this wouldnt be an issue but you did, you're at fault and should know better. At no point was morphine or jacketing me required, you did it because you knew I didn't do a damn thing but saying sec rogue.

You said ''Saying sec rogue is a one way ticket'' is it a one way ticket to be jacketed, morphined to addiction point, and thrown in perma? Nope.

Saying "Sec rogue" is, in fact, a one-way ticket to {insert cruel punishment}. If you call them rogue, they get to act rogue to you.
If you'd have come quietly for questioning, we'd have been able to ask you where you were, what your alibi was, and probably let you out. But since you didn't, we didn't bother with the niceties, and just punished you as if you really were our grand sabotager.

Several people did in fact show up, thankfully none interfered. I don't remember who said you were using a welder to start plasma fires, I just repeated what I heard and said you were a suspect, and arrested you, which is my job. If you're going to be as difficult as possible and do whatever you can to escape and put me in danger of getting lynched because you don't think you should go to jail, tough, cry more. Dont' be a shitter, had you just cooperated you would have been freed once we got confirmation your prints were not on the canister.

LOL

How is it a one way ticket for them to act rogue against me? Are they antags, hell to the no. So no, you're wrong nightingale.

Like I said, people showed up to medbay for healing you can't use that lol.

''Dont be a shitter'' maybe if you wern't such a shitsec and actually said what was going on the moment you stunned me, or even right after you sprayed me and I asked you what the hell you were doing this would all be okay. But no, you didn't so you trying to justify you morphining me/jacketing me is not going to work.

Yes, I should have kindly asked you to please come with me, given you hug and a candy bar, because then you totally would never consider just running off/attacking me and then bragging about how you robust you are.

People showed up around the chemistry lab and came running in and people where asking where you were before you gave your location on the radio. Sure, maybe they all ran there by coincidence but you still attempted to get them to attack me and free you.

No, if you would've told me what the hell you were doing after I was cuffed and why I was being detained I would've been like "Oh okay" I've done it before with sec members. I've even been set to wanted for unknown reasons and walked up to the brig for searching/clearing my name.

This is the problem with sec, too many ''Shoot first ask questions later'' when you know damn well sec can be lings, assistants with job changes who are antags. I don't roleplay knowing sec is automaticly a fully trusted person. Anyone can be a syndicate agent, so when I yell you're rogue thats for my fucking protection, since you are wrongfully detaining me.

sirnat wrote:No, if you would've told me what the hell you were doing after I was cuffed and why I was being detained I would've been like "Oh okay" I've done it before with sec members. I've even been set to wanted for unknown reasons and walked up to the brig for searching/clearing my name.

This is the problem with sec, too many ''Shoot first ask questions later'' when you know damn well sec can be lings, assistants with job changes who are antags. I don't roleplay knowing sec is automaticly a fully trusted person. Anyone can be a syndicate agent, so when I yell you're rogue thats for my fucking protection, since you are wrongfully detaining me.

I told you why you were arrested and you continued calling for help in the brig, so that's difficult to believe. I wasn't wrongfully detaining you, you were a suspect.

Right, well I asked an admin to grab the logs and so hopefully this gets cleared. I didn't scream for help in the brig, I was talking to the AI the entire time in med comms, asking it to keep an eye on me incase you were taking me to kill me, which with the way you were acting was extremely suspicious, especially taking me into the evidence room to strip me of my empty chem bag and earpiece.

sirnat wrote:
Caught ya in a lie.

So where is this lie you caught me in homie? Still waiting. You've been pretty vitrolic and had no problem trying to get me banned. Like I said 1000 times, your headset was stripped because you were screaming into it. I don't need to "act suspicious" if you don't feel the need to cause as much fucking drama as possible over what would have been an arrest, a few couple minutes of questioning and release but apparently you do feel the need to shit things up as much as humanly possible and hide behind the admin who made an asinine decision to force me to let you go.

I'd like to hear Tsar's answer too, so far all he's done is accuse me of lying and peace out.

Oh, the lie.

The lie is: You said you jacketed/injected me so I cant yell for the AI to release me, when for one you stripped my earpiece. You had no reason to morphine me what so ever, my earpiece was off, the comms in perma do not work, and I was jacketed and did not have acces to my pda.

Posting under the Anon3 amendment to say that i am pretty sure we had a thread not long ago where the rousing consensus from player and admin alike was that if you yell sec rogue for no reason and act like a shitter then sec gets more or less free reign to do what they want with you. Not sure why admin intervention was necessary on Tsar's part in this case.

sirnat wrote:Oh, the lie.

The lie is: You said you jacketed/injected me so I cant yell for the AI to release me, when for one you stripped my earpiece. You had no reason to morphine me what so ever, my earpiece was off, the comms in perma do not work, and I was jacketed and did not have acces to my pda.

The AI can talk to you in perma via holopad, radio or no radio. Borgs can wander by. I'm not obligated to give you an opportunity to escape after you demonstrated a clear willingness to take ANY opportunity to escape.

So where did I lie? Please be specific.

I just pointed it out, anywho im done posting until logs are put up. I'm usually a shitter, and deserve to be brigged but when you brig me fnr when im trying to get better here lately on it. Being brigged fnr, and accused of lighting a plasma fire is bullshit.

Also, who stated i lit the fire/was near the canister please do tell now.

You and I have different definitions of total cunt then because when an officer runs up and stuns me when I've been doing nothing wrong all round my first instinct is to yell for help to make sure at least somebody knows what is happening to me so I don't just get thrown into space by a possible changeling officer or traitor who got a job change.

The worst thing he said was "CARL URBAN ROGUE" because he got stunned for no reason, I don't think him getting removed from the round for that single sentence is fair especially since he was put into that situation by a ban evading griefer who caused all the trouble.

Apprently I'm a ban evading greifer too. How dare I arrest someone who was wanted while playing security! Thanks Tsar! I can't wait to hear your explanation!

This is policy, not a ban request technically. Anyone is free to post wyzack

Whoopsie thought it was a banreq for some reason. I was but a simple borg this round

NikNakFlak wrote:This is policy, not a ban request technically. Anyone is free to post wyzack

Yeah, I'm not asking for a ban or anything, I just want this cleared up because it puts security in a difficult position. I'm also wondering why Tsar is personally insulting me because I dared address this, but this is just to make sure that in fact screaming SEC ROUGE is not okay.

Charge with inciting a riot: 500 labour camp points.

Do it again: welcome to perma.

Problem solved.

perma on first offence is excessive.

You forgot a charge of 'insulting an officer' for every officer in Security. If you're going to abuse Space Law, do it right.

Don't mind sirnat OP, he's a shit to everyone and will get himself banned eventually. Perma people who cry sec/borg rogue when they aren't actually rogue. That's what I was told.

This issue here is that he was gonna do that and then Tsar bwoinked him

DrPillzRedux wrote:Don't mind sirnat OP, he's a shit to everyone and will get himself banned eventually. Perma people who cry sec/borg rogue when they aren't actually rogue. That's what I was told.

Tsar told I had to cut him loose right then and there, and has been going around shittalking me on singlo as well as accusing me of lying while not providing any logs (Apparently, I'm a massive griefer for arresting him), so apparently not.

Why does sirnat even have ahelp privileges anymore?

this thread is going places

DrPillzRedux wrote:Why does sirnat even have ahelp privileges anymore?

this thread is going places

Although sirnat and tsar brought the exact incident and I participated in derailing it, this isn't really about Sirnat, this is more about the on the fly ruling that screaming "Sec Rouge" cannot even be punished IC'ly at all, despite the previous consensus that it was worth at least a long gulag sentence if not perma/death.

I've literally only seen tsar say that you can't perma rogue criers now. Every other admin I've asked has said you can, as well as muzzle+jacket them and welderbolt them into a room.

Lol yes do not mind me of course redux.

No, the issue here is he's buttmad he couldnt perma me for saying he was rogue for falsely arresting me, he then went overboard and OD'd me with morphine getting me addicted, and leaving me in perma in a straight jacket.

Nothing I did warranted perma, saying he was rogue definently isn't. I didn't incite a riot, I incited the idiot was rogue and was arresting me for making healing chems all round.

I was the only chemist in medbay doing med chems, Tsar answered my ahelp when I ahelped him morphining/jacketing me. Where does it say in space law, "Get the suspect addicted to morphine, and throw him in perma in a straight jacket"
I wasn't dangerous, I wasn't screaming ''SEC ROGUE'' but when he stunned me in the chemical room.

Security sometimes acts on incorrect information. We don't have all the facts. Sure, you dindu nuffin, but we don't know that, and if the shoe fits...
... then we're punishing you for it. Well played to whoever framed you.

If you hadn't have been morphined and straitjacketed, would you have had the AI let you out? Probably. Most people do if they can. Given that you were actively trying to cause trouble for Security by inciting a riot, you can't really fault the officer for sedating you or stopping you from using an intercom. (The addiction was an unintentional side-effect, I'd wager.)

If you really were the plasma flooder, would it have been an acceptable punishment? Most likely. And given that Security was acting on information that incriminated you...