Meta-grudging

[J_Madison]

Discuss policy regarding differential negative treatment of other players.

We've had discussions about positive treatment.

Here's the other side of things.
From stun cuff buckle searching at roundstart to simply treating someone differently for their identifiable character.
And a habit to immediately change actions based upon past experiences. All of the above has happened.

What is the policy on this?

Let's start with some good ones. To make it simple, these three reasons will be used:
Name - is your name valid? Is your name just god awful?
Association - are you a shitter whom has a specific group of buddies?
Past experiences - did you valid seek or purposely create trouble?

Are we allowed to not clone, refuse to clone, or prevention of clone?
Are we allowed to refuse to assist?
Are we allowed to up our response?
Edit: this means say, killing rather than arresting, purposely using anti-adrenal tactics, responding to action or force with less than normal actions (permabrigging for stunprods, brig and demote for refusing to use space cleaner, deliberate ways to upset "snowflake" play styles.

The simple remedy is to use a dynamic name every round to avoid any advantages, disadvantages and to have a fair game. But as we all know that doesn't happen with everyone.

[lzimann]

Are we allowed to not clone, refuse to clone, or prevention of clone?

If you are actually preventing the clone, by stealing/hiding the body, without a good reason(he was an antag, being a massive dick, those things), it is bad. But if you just pass the guy's dead body and don't bother taking to clone, kinda dickish but not bannable or anything.

Are we allowed to refuse to assist?

Yes, you are not required to help anyone

Are we allowed to up our response?

Didn't quite understand this one, what do you mean by "up our response" ?

[J_Madison]

I think I picked up a note for that last example. I did definitely get bwoinked for it though.

A player who had a well known tactic of spamming disarms randomly had attacked me during a nuke war round, then began trying to bait me into some kind of confrontation after stealing a weapon.

Rather than spend time on it, or arrest them. I upped my response by just flat out killing them, then moved on.
It was code war, and I'd been promoted to admiral. I'd admit it's a dick move to kill them, but since it was Nuke war, I was in no mood to waste more time than I had to.

This also references the ban request thread that someone made because another player treated them differently based on past experiences. Saeg said this isn't allowed, though a few weeks ago on supportbus this conflicts with a few admins, oranges opinion, and human nature to learn from mistakes.

[TheNightingale]

If they're repeatedly doing something you feel the need to metagrudge, adminhelp it.

[J_Madison]

If they're repeatedly doing something you feel the need to metagrudge, adminhelp it.

I see what you mean, and I'd prefer it this way, but it's difficult to change people.
It's perfectly legal (borderline being an intolerable shitter) to do things like wet main hallways constantly, randomly attack people, and generally being an intolerable annoyance to other players. In fact play styles affect this.

Outside of a rule 0 ban, you can't ban a "cocky robust player" for OCICK complaining about someone being unskilled, and you certainly can't prevent people from giving out virology superviruses to all the assistants every round.

I'd honestly expect action to met with action. It's very difficult to not learn from mistakes.

((I have been brigged and searched roundstart because of previous round actions, and for playing a certain job)).

[Malkevin]

Searching people at round start is bad

Throwing someone straight into perma because they're a known turd, not so much.

Killing someone he is actively assaulting you and impeding you when nukeops/revs/cults/gangs/(other overt antags including murderboner traitor on the loose), absolutely fine.

[J_Madison]

Searching people at round start is bad

Throwing someone straight into perma because they're a known turd, not so much.

Killing someone he is actively assaulting you and impeding you when nukeops/revs/cults/gangs/(other overt antags including murderboner traitor on the loose), absolutely fine.

I wasn't actually the victim of it, but it was god damn hilarious.

As a traitor, I spread fungal tb and disabled any and all means of curing it.
I stole an assistants ID, shaved my head and wore a gas mask.
Greentexted.

Next round I was observing, and the assistant whose ID I stole gets stunned, cuffed, brigged, searched, and implanted at roundstart because "he might have fungal tb".
And that's the story of why I changed my name after that round.


I rarely see certain players get into perma. In most (and on ban requests) cases, these players get shot to crit, gibbed, cremated, or spaced immediately.

[Screemonster]

Searching people at round start is bad

Throwing someone straight into perma because they're a known turd, not so much.

Killing someone he is actively assaulting you and impeding you when nukeops/revs/cults/gangs/(other overt antags including murderboner traitor on the loose), absolutely fine.

I wasn't actually the victim of it, but it was god damn hilarious.

As a traitor, I spread fungal tb and disabled any and all means of curing it.
I stole an assistants ID, shaved my head and wore a gas mask.
Greentexted.

Next round I was observing, and the assistant whose ID I stole gets stunned, cuffed, brigged, searched, and implanted at roundstart because "he might have fungal tb".
And that's the story of why I changed my name after that round.


I rarely see certain players get into perma. In most (and on ban requests) cases, these players get shot to crit, gibbed, cremated, or spaced immediately.

on a bay server I saw the HoS and HoP go completely inspector javert on a miner because they broke into the science outpost to make grenades as a tator the previous round

like demanding to deconstruct the outpost's chem dispenser while the captain and RD told them both to fuck off

[J_Madison]

I think that would be categorised as metagaming.

It's fair enough to overreact when someone has proof something is going to happen, but I'd think that doing things like that is metagaming.

[Oldman Robustin]

Metagrudging is hard to enforce. I don't go a single round where someone doesn't treat me differently, sometimes its a good thing (conversion roles pick you up early, sec/HOP/cap/etc. might be more willing to trust you with weapons/access to combat a major station threat) but its often a bad thing (people checking for false walls in your favorite hiding spots, searching you first when gangs/cult/etc. show up, AI frequently checking on you).

You just gotta roll with it. If someone does something that seriously impacts your round without adequate justification, then admin help it. Otherwise, if they can cook up any alternative explanation then you're outta luck.


Also remember that antags aren't bound by standard metagrudge rules. So having a traitor ignore their objectives just to exclusively hunt you down isn't a reportable offense. I suppose it could get bad enough where if someone suicides every round until they get antag and then every time they get antag they rush you with some guaranteed kill combo like ebow+minibomb, then you could appeal to admins I guess.

Almost any other "metagrudge" offense violated Rule 1 anyway and "metagrudge' would only be an aggravating circumstance to add to a potential ban length, or as a trap for idiots who will tell an admin that they were metagrudging.

[TechnoAlchemist]

I encourage people to try out new names/appearances. It's refreshing being a blank slate

[Atlanta-Ned]

On the flipside, I hate it when the shit hits the fan and the usual (albeit dependable) special snowflakes show up for all access/guns/an implant or whatever the round in question calls for. And if you decide to treat them like the canon fodder they should be, you get dunked by said special snowflakes and then blown up in deadchat/OOC. No way to win that.

[ShadowDimentio]

I feel nothing but sadness that my time playing the same person hasn't built me any tangible reputation

I want the crew to hunt me down in conversion rounds because I'm that good

I want to get cucked first by the antags so I don't stop them in a heroic last stand

[PKPenguin321]

I encourage people to try out new names/appearances. It's refreshing being a blank slate

this
i have a few TOP SEKRIT alternate IC characters that i run now and then and the way people treat you differently is astounding, i'd definitely recommend it
if you're so obsessed with your speshul snowflake character that you can't switch it up when you're getting metagrudged, you basically have no right to complain ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[J_Madison]

You're right. There are several threads right now made by notorious snowflake players complaining about mistreatment during rounds.

Simple answer to "help admin/player is prejudicing me" is change your name.

Personally, using any name more than 5 rounds in a row is grounds on which people will start noticing you.

There's no way a player wouldn't start holding a grudge, especially if the victim had done something to the player. The human brain doesn't work that way. We are hard wired to learn from mistakes.

Players being shitters because they don't get given speshul snowflake treatment should be perma-identity banned. It's one thing to have a snowflake character, and it's another thing to start disrupting others because they refuse to kneel to their special standards that give them an unfair advantage ahead of others.

[Shaps-cloud]

I've had plenty of experiences where someone was a shitter to me one round but then I saw them again in another round and we got along like best buds. First impressions are important yeah, but if you hold grudges like that over one interaction then you're probably a child

[Cheimon]

Don't admins see the ckeys by default anyway?

[Saegrimr]

Not unless we're specifically looking at the player panel or vars, which you really shouldn't be if you're actively playing in a round since that spoils who is and isn't an antag.

[Atlanta-Ned]

I've had plenty of experiences where someone was a shitter to me one round but then I saw them again in another round and we got along like best buds.

This. I make an effort to change up my attitude/playstyle round-to-round to keep people from knowing where I fit into the overall meta-puzzle. The game stops being fun otherwise.

[newfren]

I've had plenty of experiences where someone was a shitter to me one round but then I saw them again in another round and we got along like best buds.

This. I make an effort to change up my attitude/playstyle round-to-round to keep people from knowing where I fit into the overall meta-puzzle. The game stops being fun otherwise.

Yeah it's a lot of fun to be a tiding asshole one round and then a friendly helpful assistant the next.

[Amelius]

I rarely see certain players get into perma. In most (and on ban requests) cases, these players get shot to crit, gibbed, cremated, or spaced immediately.

Can confirm that Ememely Ranger has a 110% gib/cremation rate whenever she flukes because I'm 'too dangerous to sec', even in perma.

Also, switching to random-name character makes it hilarious. Every time I slip someone with soap/water and I don't have a mute, they'll always say 'EMILY RANGER KILLING ME!' on the radio, despite the fact that Emily doesn't exist in the round. Also makes it around 5x easier to slip people.

[Amelius]

searching you first when gangs/cult/etc. show up, AI frequently checking on you

I know these feels. Many-a-time I've killed someone silently in some dead part of the station and the AI will be tracking me at the time, solely due to my notoriety.

I remember back when gang was relatively new I'd be the meta 1st pickup for lieutenant (convert Emily -> boss: 'We have Emily, we've won!'), since I could nigh guarantee a win. Sec picked up on that, and so I was always 'randomly' searched/set to arrest/tracked by the AI the moment someone called out gangs. Shit was hilarious though, I'd be running around like crazy from both gangsters and sec as a neutral party alot of the time.

Nowhere near as good now, since my old tactics aren't as effective with the implant nerf, and, because I tend to react very quickly to pen pulls combined with the fact that I make people work for their conversions, I'm mostly ignored now since I'm not worth the risk.

Haven't played in months though, so whatever.