What can a drone do?

newfren · Post by **newfren** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 1:21 pm #163036

So I was playing drone and noone was in the RnD lab - given that I figured it would improve the station to have better RnD I did it - but the admins disagreed. In the following conversation I was told that apparently acting as janitor or bartender was also violating my laws.

So what is within the purview of the drones laws?

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 1:33 pm #163040

If its not the station itself or another drone, don't even acknowledge it exists. If you don't want to be a quiet autismo fixing windows and hull breaches, or build a smoking lounge in maint away from people, then just don't play drone.

You're not a deciding part of the round in any way. Its a privilege for bored ghosts during long rounds to pass time with.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 1:36 pm #163042

Depends on who you ask.

Your laws command you to essentially, and I quote.

Maintain
Repair
Improve
Power

The entire station as best as you can.

Law wise, I don't see any conflict with you using RnD to upgrade parts of the station. So long as there is no one around who is or wants to use RnD. The moment anyone even looks like they want to use RnD you just leave.

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:24 pm #163074

I go janidrone nearly each time because it's easy and trivial to do unlike repairing things, obviously I don't clean gang signs or cult runes but that's about it.

>acting like a janitor is violating your laws

hm

if you're just putting out drinks without care for anyone, I don't see how that breaks your rules. You're improving the station arguably, in a round about way, especially if you place them neatly on tables. Same with botany. You're not interfering with any beings and maintenance and improvement of the hydroponic trays of the station is a legitimate task.

honestly, fuck the IC wording of the laws, just don't interfere with something someone is using and never go near anything a traitor is currently using and you should be fine

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:28 pm #163075

I don't think you even can clean cult runes anymore. Like they're just plain immune to soap and shit now.

TheNightingale · Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:42 pm

I usually ask myself a few questions before doing anything problematic as a drone:
1) Does doing this thing go against the station? (e.g. setting fire to stuff)
2) Does doing this thing actively interact with people? (e.g. healing people)
2) If I do this thing, will anyone be upset by it? (e.g. cleaning gang tags)

If the answer to any of those is 'yes', it's best not to do it. Healing the assistant after they get shocked from hacking a door would be interacting with them, which isn't okay; but fixing the door and leaving a medibot next to them would be alright also pretty bad, don't do this. If someone's trying to get back onto the station from space, fixing the wall they're deconstructing would upset them, even if it's not interacting with them, so that's not alright - but opening a nearby airlock, waiting for them to go inside, then fixing the wall is acceptable.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:01 pm #163085

TheNightingale wrote:and leaving a medibot next to them would be alright.

Absolutely not.

TheNightingale wrote:but opening a nearby airlock, waiting for them to go inside,

Also no, but no way in hell anybody is going to try and question the intent behind a drone opening a door to go fix something.

Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:21 pm

If you are unsure what to do as a drone, ahelp. When drones were new I was playing as one and found a syndicate bomb in escape and ahelped asking if I should disarm it, as it would cause lots of damage to the station. Admins said "no" and that was that.

Post by **oranges** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:12 pm #163115

for drones you can usually err on the side of nonaction and get away with it.

Post by **lumipharon** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:22 pm #163119

Fucking drones trying to print shit out of R&D/steal materials WHILE I'M USING IT, god damn they're like space gypsies.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:23 pm #163120

lumipharon wrote:Fucking drones trying to print shit out of R&D/steal materials WHILE I'M USING IT, god damn they're like space gypsies.

Toolbox it.

Post by **lumipharon** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:33 pm #163124

they're small targets that can table crawl and vent crawl - it's harder then you'd hope.
Last time it happened the drone wiped R&D and cut apc power until I got an admin to ban it.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:34 pm #163125

Sounds like the system works then.

Also theres a newbie timer on drones around now (as of like a couple months ago) because of pubbies.

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:49 pm #163127

Improving the station is literally part of the drone lawset.

And so is janitorial work, because it is maintaining the station.

Shadowlight213 · Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:13 pm

I've done DroneND before as a drone when rnd was vacant before and been perfectly fine. Same with janitor drone.
I've even gone around and used an rped to upgrade machines around the station. You aren't interacting with people.
If no one is in RND and it doesn't look like anyone will be there (it's completely vacant) then it's fine to do rnd. However if there are people in it or there's evidence that people are working it, you probably shouldn't.
If you really want to do RND and there are people there, the best way to go about it is print off circuit boards for an rnd setup and build your own rnd somewhere in maint.
Just don't print off stuff like bags of holding, or try and print when someone is using the console. That's the main complaint rnd players have. I doubt anyone would complain if you printed an RPED and parts and went around upgrading the station though.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:22 pm #163198

palpatine213 wrote:If you really want to do RND and there are people there, the best way to go about it is print off circuit boards for an rnd setup and build your own rnd somewhere in maint.

Or just take em out of tech storage instead of wasting acid. Tons of shit in there that everybody somehow forgets about.

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:22 pm #163200

Just don't do shit that interacts with people/interferes in a round/damages the station.

This is not hard and anyone trying to rule lawyer me to justify shitty behaviour will get banned.

Also, for the record, the following things count as interfererence:-

Disabling atmospherics, even when it's flooding plasma/N2O/CO2
Disabling bombs
Cleaning gang signs
Moving medibots/beepskies to heal/capture someone
Fighting a Blob
Killing simple mobs
Spacing the nuke in an OPs shuttle
Sending the OP's ship away
Rendering the OP's shuttle inaccessible
FUCKING LEAVE THE OPS SHUTTLE ALONE
Undoing someone else's decorations or construction
BoH bombing a loose singularity
Interacting with people in any deliberate way
Bringing weapons/antagonist items to security

Shadowlight213 · Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:37 pm

Saegrimr wrote:
palpatine213 wrote:If you really want to do RND and there are people there, the best way to go about it is print off circuit boards for an rnd setup and build your own rnd somewhere in maint.
Or just take em out of tech storage instead of wasting acid. Tons of shit in there that everybody somehow forgets about.

Yeah that's what I usually do. Most of the boards are in tech storage, but not all.

FantasticFwoosh · Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:09 pm

Though people might not particularly agree with it, i find waiting a while (either by playing/observing) only to later die and taking that meta-knowledge on as a drone (as long as you don't directly reference it) actually helps gauge what needs doing, and give situational awareness and guidance to other drones (if comms aren't informative enough)

Being a drone is essentially a ghost with hands, and i understand the risk i am taking with that statement (putting my head on the block advocating meta-knowledge in this instance), but because you're so deliberately insignifiant to the round with very few if no means of communicating with sapients, its non impactful at all and actually prevents law breaking incidents from happening for yourself and others.

Most non-deliberate and accidental drone law breaks are instinctive reactions and actions born out of not knowing or being unable to percieve the situation due to the static field (though recently antags or some types have gotten colour outlines, however for new players this may be hard to know the colour code)

Here is a shorthand player guide on knowing how to handle a round as a drone.

> Nuclear operatives on board? (wire up the solars VERY QUICKLY) and go fort up in maint, dont fix explosive breaches, mind your own business = DO NOT TOUCH THE DISK
> Traitors?/changeling (same as above but more freedom to move about, let engineers clean up suspicious bomb holes, you are fire immune, only put out the plasma fires you start with a welder if accidents occur and try to lock down the area, otherwise other than preparation prior for human habitation, air quality is not your issue)
> Blob? go to the other side of the station and/or simply dont spawn at all because the blob ate the drone machine/relocate to lavaland
> Cult(/s) - Take precautions to avoid attention of cults wandering maint and space ruin hunting. Dont interact with cult by building lavaland bases for them to hide in or make summary lavaland bases too remote to find
> Shadowling? - go find a restrictive room and grab some mesons instead of using your drone light/go to lavaland or space ruin hunt
> Monkeys? - business as usual
> Xeno's - Ignore weeds/walls just move away or go off site
> Swarmers - just self suicide, these guys are too annoying and just go play a swarmer instead

Slignerd · Post by **Slignerd** » Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:08 pm #208884

Usually as a Drone, I simply work on RnD as I would if I were a Scientist - but I mostly try to avoid the console if I see anyone else working there. Then, I would get a Bluespace RPED, and upgrade everything I can see with the parts available. Science and Cargo gets bluespace bins (22 pieces total), but more than that always feels like a waste, so I use super bins for the rest. For the sake of convenience, I can print some stuff, such as experimental welder, or bag of holding - but it's important not to be too much of a strain on the resources. Welder is fine most of the time, but BoH is a luxury for when Science is drowning in minerals. Don't be that drone who wastes everything away.

On the engineering side, I'd grab some metal, glass, rods, floor tiles, plasteel and wires and repair the station damage if I see any. It's what you're best off doing. What's more important is that if it's broken, it's the best to try your best to restore it to roundstart condition. If a reinforced window was broken, remove shards and rods from the tile and build a reinforced window, not a wall. If a reinforced wall was broken, try to build a reinforced wall instead of a regular one. Stuff like that.

Janitor drone is fine, but it should be subtle - use space cleaner instead of wetting the floors for people to slip on or ridin' a Pimpin' Ride. Also, you should mostly clean the hallways or medbay - if it's a fresh trail of someone who just got killed, you shouldn't clean it right away, as if covering up the crime.

Generally - help the station out, but do not get in anyone's way, don't hurt anyone and don't heal anyone - anything related to medical, security or antags is beyond your scope. Don't take high-risk items, don't touch any contraband. Don't thwart major sabotage - focus on the aftereffects instead. Fix broken windows, hacked airlocks or damaged tiles. Should be fine to seal breaches, too. But don't stop plasma floods or defuse bombs - someone still has business with that. Also, don't lift bolts if someone explicitly wants to keep an area locked down. No one likes that.

Hibbles · Post by **Hibbles** » Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:34 pm #208939

I wish there was any IC way to word 'do not interfere with any other player or their actions to the best of your ability' in any comprehensible way. Because that's truly all that matters. Any attempt to go by the letter of laws, in such a complex game, will have people trying to wiggle around it. That may be tolerable for other things, but for drones, I'm glad we're reasonably hardcore on it.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:24 pm #208969

Fwoosh and Slig are right on the money here.

ShadowDimentio · Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:56 am

Playing a drone as someone with no regard to anyone else works fine. Cleaning is fine, building/repairs is fine, working on stuff is fine unless someone is trying to do it themselves and you'll hog their resources. Basically play as if nobody else is playing and you'll be gucci.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:38 am #209053

ShadowDimentio wrote:Playing a drone as someone with no regard to anyone else works fine. Cleaning is fine, building/repairs is fine, working on stuff is fine unless someone is trying to do it themselves and you'll hog their resources. Basically play as if nobody else is playing and you'll be gucci.

"B-but if nobody else is playing then why can't I remove bombs that were there since roundstart? Why can't I drag away plasma canisters that are moving on their own? Why can't I flood a station without anyone on?"

Not-Dorsidarf · Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am

DemonFiren wrote:
ShadowDimentio wrote:Playing a drone as someone with no regard to anyone else works fine. Cleaning is fine, building/repairs is fine, working on stuff is fine unless someone is trying to do it themselves and you'll hog their resources. Basically play as if nobody else is playing and you'll be gucci.
"B-but if nobody else is playing then why can't I remove bombs that were there since roundstart? Why can't I drag away plasma canisters that are moving on their own? Why can't I flood a station without anyone on?"

This is a perfectly acceptable situation

"b-bu-"
"You have been banned"

It's nice having a non-essential role we can just shitstomp people out of if they decide to rules-lawyer.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:12 am #209061

Yes, but this just to demonstrate that there's no way to word a law that people won't whine about getting banned for because they followed it to the letter in such a fashion that allowed them to fuck around.

InsaneHyena · Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:31 am

This is your daily reminder that MSO ruled that pAIs are not beings, so having a pAI buddy as a drone is fine.

Not-Dorsidarf · Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am

DemonFiren wrote:Yes, but this just to demonstrate that there's no way to word a law that people won't whine about getting banned for because they followed it to the letter in such a fashion that allowed them to fuck around.

Don't blame me, I wanted to get the non-interference laws replaced with a massive, OOC message like the ones sec and peace borgs get.

WarbossLincoln · Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:37 pm

I was told by an admin once you can do basically anything as a drone if it a: doesn't create a hazard, and b: doesn't directly involve any being. I was given the ok to clean gang tags off the walls as long as no one was near the tag when I came upon it. That was fun, I went in circles cleaning up the entire station's tags before someone realized it was a drone doing it and shot me.

Doing RnD was fine as long as no one was using the machines. I waited till they left the room and filled a bluespace parts exchanger with the best parts and went around the station upgrading all the machines, cause they were too lazy to do it.

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Wed Sep 07, 2016 6:16 pm #209472

Generally it comes down to not interfering with mobs unless they're simple robots, don't touch corpses (if you must, put them back exactly or as near as you found them), don't touch anything that's antag related (so no touching atmospherics at all if it's been tampered with, as far as you know they're meant to be like that), don't touch anything that belongs to someone else and if you hear someone say "Drone stop what you're doing, you're interfering" then you bloody well stop.

You are allowed to fix the damage from a bomb blast (but you're not allowed to disarm a bomb or move it anywhere), you can fight fires but you're not allowed to stop the cause of the fire so that usually boils down to fire extinguishing the flames and replacing the floor tiles as they're burning. You're allowed to use hydroponics, do R&D, setup the engine, upgrade machinery, clean (unless there is an antagonist that relies on filth about), mine, build and make cable art if you want.

Basically it boils down to not creating obstacles for the crew/antagonists, not attacking anything and not preemptively fixing or sabotage-proofing something. If you're not sure whether something would be considered in violation, ask. Otherwise, assume it is until you get told otherwise. This is as simple as I could possibly make it.

InsaneHyena · Post by **InsaneHyena** » Wed Sep 07, 2016 6:18 pm #209474

> sabotage power
> Drones fix it again and again
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Reyn · Post by **Reyn** » Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:39 pm #209522

Anonmare wrote:Just don't do shit that interacts with people/interferes in a round/damages the station.

Also, for the record, the following things count as interfererence:-
Disabling atmospherics, even when it's flooding plasma/N2O/CO2

Disabling bombs

Cleaning gang signs

Moving medibots/beepskies to heal/capture someone

Fighting a Blob

Killing simple mobs

Spacing the nuke in an OPs shuttle

Sending the OP's ship away

Rendering the OP's shuttle inaccessible

FUCKING LEAVE THE OPS SHUTTLE ALONE

Undoing someone else's decorations or construction

BoH bombing a loose singularity

Interacting with people in any deliberate way

Bringing weapons/antagonist items to security

Note that borg laws and drone laws are PROBABLY out the window in postround
More things which count as interfering, most deffinitely:
Fucking with the ai's/a borg's laws
Stealing CRITICALLY important stuff. (AKA tatorgoal stuff or stuff which needs to be used urgently)
Stealing the chap's soulstone shard and using it on a dead body to get a ghostly servant (THATS INTERFERING AND INTERACTING)
Calling the shittle
Welding off access
Being donald trump
Welderbombing
Lubing the floors
Bananna peel spam
Stealing in use bombs and shit
Making station announcements.
Killing people
ID modifying
Grafitti
Trying to get a date with

Stunbaton
Tazing peeps.
Stealing chap's shit
Screwing with the cults
Making disposal autismloops
Looting armoury* (Might be iffy)

Things which are extremely iffy in terms of interference:
Stealing from captain's locker if it's unatended
Stealing from any of the head's lockers.
Opening doors at random.
Stealing Syndie shit that people left lying around.
Stealing cult shit left lying around
Stealing tools and gear which are left lying around
Botany
Doing xenobiology
Messing with the teleporter
opening up blocked off areas of the station

Things which are likely ok, but are still supper silly for a drone to do
Stealing all the hats
Building a drone army with the drone production machine
Having backpacks full of inactive drones.
Being vent ninja
Writing notes to nobody in specific, just lying around.
Stealing money
making new parts of the station
Doing engineering's job because engineering is incompitent
Setting up engines
Drone fightclub
Stealing the captain's crown if it's not on the captain themself
Stealing a sombrero so you can be A mexican drone.
Putting up posters to make the station more lively (FREEDRONE POSTERS ARE POSSIBLY IFFY....)
Bannanna peel cleanup
Building consoles for everyone
Being a hat
Being a hat with a hat
not being a hat with a hat with a hat with a hat with a hat with a hat.
Staging the drone inquisition postround
Throwing the freon out of the station so no assholes release it and cause damage to the station, its not interference if nobody's doing it yet!
Holding all the c4 someone hid and throwing it out into space
Hold a war with nonstation drones, if thats ok
Walk as a group.
Create a drone hive
Being that one cuck who just walks around the vents all day to make surenothing goes wrong.
Be at war with the clockwork cult's drones(That should be ok)
Be at war with the swarmers(Swarmers are drones, you know)
Group up on the shuttle in one room.

Slignerd · Post by **Slignerd** » Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:12 pm #209558

Well, occasionally when I see an ID with ID modification access lying around on the Bridge/Captain Office with no one around, I like making myself a "Maintenance Drone" ID with no name given from one of the regular spare IDs and give it nothing but RC announcement console access, then use it for "maintenance reports" in RD Office. But not "yo, I'm a dank sentient drone" that I've seen some drones do with Captain's announcements. More like "X maintenance actions have been performed", if you really feel the need to let the station know. Make it seem like an automated system, instead of ramblings of an obnoxious bored ghost.

It's somewhat stretching the line, but the important bit is that you don't refer to any beings and that nothing important will be looted from such drone in the event it's killed - which is something I feel drones should pay attention to. The original ID card should be left right where it was, and any traitor thinking that a Drone ID might be all-access, or even any door access would be greatly disappointed.

Also... Regarding the "likely okay" things...

Reyn wrote:- Holding all the c4 someone hid and throwing it out into space

No. Interfering with a traitor's contraband stash definitely isn't acceptable.

Reyn wrote:Be at war with the clockwork cult's drones(That should be ok)
Be at war with the swarmers(Swarmers are drones, you know)

Drone laws forbid harming any other beings, drone or not.

killerx09 · Post by **killerx09** » Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:24 pm #211364

Purely hypothetically, what happens if you, as a drone, take the nuke disk and crawl into a vent, only to get assploded while in the vent?

Slignerd · Post by **Slignerd** » Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:01 pm #211393

> Touching the nuke disk as a drone

Just don't do it. Ever.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:26 pm #211398

I wish drones could interact with each other at least, drone fight club is pretty fun

Gun Hog · Post by **Gun Hog** » Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:54 pm #211403

Wyzack wrote:I wish drones could interact with each other at least, drone fight club is pretty fun

As long as you are not harming (dealing damage) other drones, you can interact with them.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:58 pm #211405

but that rules out fight club, which is awesome. Especially if you make a cool maint arena to host it in (no carbons allowed)

onleavedontatme · Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:19 pm

If it's consensual I doubt anyone would adminhelp or any admin would care.

Someone should just replace the drone laws because they're meaningless garbage and people think it means you get to rules lawyer them like you do AI.

Just don't interact with living creatures, and don't impact the general flow of the round (for example, by following a traitor and """helpfully""" fix everything he breaks while you """"ignore"""" him)

Slignerd · Post by **Slignerd** » Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:05 pm #211414

You can rule lawyer as AI?

Screemonster · Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:30 pm

going all monkey's paw on some chump when they upload a carelessly-worded freeform law is one of the most fun parts of playing AI

Slignerd · Post by **Slignerd** » Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:05 pm #211433

Yeah, but you definitely aren't allowed to loophole under the standard lawset, or even under any of the other pre-existing lawsets, no matter how terribly worded (I'm looking at you, Paladin, Robocop and Corporate)

With drones it's no different - it's just never relevant, since drone laws never get changed.

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Fri Sep 16, 2016 6:51 pm #211958

Drone laws state that you cannot interfere with a non-drone being as I recall

FantasticFwoosh · Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:46 am

Update - 'Friendly' mobs no longer aggro drones

Implicatively though mining mobs will not leave you alone making it hard to mind your own business.

Post by **Atlanta-Ned** » Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:16 pm #213040

FantasticFwoosh wrote: Implicatively though mining mobs will not leave you alone making it hard to mind your own business.

Sounds like another good reason to never leave the station if you're a drone.

FantasticFwoosh · Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:19 pm

Atlanta-Ned wrote:
FantasticFwoosh wrote: Implicatively though mining mobs will not leave you alone making it hard to mind your own business.
Sounds like another good reason to never leave the station if you're a drone.

It doesn't matter really because drones are infinite anyway, you can just bait all the mining mobs into a area of the map/conveyor belt directly into a chasm.

TheColdTurtle · Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:51 pm

Yeah, go do that. Totally won't get you banned from drone

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:43 pm #213105

TheColdTurtle wrote:Yeah, go do that. Totally won't get you banned from drone

As long as they don't physically interfere with the mobs (I.E. Attack them) or lead them to, say, the mining station or an Ash ligger hideout, it's pretty kosher. You can hardly be held responsible for mob AI specifically targeting you - just don't abuse it to get another player killed or to save another player from getting killed.

To be honest, I don't really care about Drone/Mob interference nearly as much as Drone/Player since mobs simply don't know not to bother drones.
If a Drone leads a mob into a location that would almost certainly lead to it getting killed, I don't consider it a violation since the Drone didn't interfere with it - the mob got itself killed.

I'd rather mob AI just ignored Drones altogether, it would be so much simpler to enforce Drone non-interference if the mobs didn't bother drones.

Screemonster · Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:50 pm

just don't go training the mobs like that guy in everquest back in the day

tl;dr one of the zones that was close to one of the low-level starting zones was full of horrible high level monsters, and this guy would shoot the monsters once to aggro them, then immediately run into newbietown where they would slaughter just about everyone

Poorman · Post by **Poorman** » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:59 pm #213111

But I can take any hat I want, right?

Also, as a Drone I generally want to get at least one gun by the end of the round, if only because joining the post round brawl as a drone with a gun is fucking hilarious.