Ashwalker Hunting Equiette

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FantasticFwoosh
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Ashwalker Hunting Equiette

Post by FantasticFwoosh » #169146

Bottom post of the previous page:

After a few complaints of salt and one metagrudge admin genocide i thought to bring this up.

Im calling into question the practices of lavaland natives, 'Ash Walkers'.
{"<B>You are an Ash Walker. Your tribe worships <span class='danger'>the necropolis</span>. The wastes are sacred ground, it's monsters a blessed bounty. You have seen lights in the distance though, the arrival of outsiders seeking to destroy the land. Fresh sacrifices.</B>"}
Basically the premise is set for conflict. Its informed the player RP wise that miners exist to be killed and encourages killing them.

Im not suggesting that much changes on the front of conflict, as it is pivotal to RP culture to maintain the hunt, but instead that ash walkers should in moderation be liable for super aggressive acts and be a tad bit more PC about things. As in to have some minor consideration for other players rather than "stab the nearest thing you see that breathes" to deflect accusations made against ashwalkers honour that they are 'free murderbone antags'. Indeed they are not by definition, but they can if conditions are right to boost their numbers advantageously.

For a suggestion what defines as so many ash walkers cry out after battle "A good hunt"?

> Food for the nest
> Typically a vigorous battle
> Minimal Injuries to ashmember party
> Additional perks such as loot and a safe trip home

This in itself is fine for goliath & monster hunting, but hunting a person is a different matter. There should be RP steps taken by both miners and ash walker parties to keep up the tension but stop the blatant murder.

Under a definition of a bad hunt

> *Risk of losing numbers for rewards payoff*
> Wasting resources healing up/throwing spears to chase hunt
> *Spending a lot of time away from base*
> *Fighting unworthy prey*

Points here that are starred are relevant to the policy i want to address.

> Fighting miners may incur more risk than the ash lizards may handle, as it may alert them to their presence nearby and incur military action - Ash lizards should take this into account in their own RP way.

> Long distance should be de-incentivised to hunt prey away from fixed 'hunting ground encroachment' which starts at lizard mining base until they find traces of mining occupation, a imaginary border should be mentally mapped there. Encroachment any closer should be punished and ideally the ash walkers should put up a sign or something (a spare gladiator helm surrounded by gibs or something) to enter at own risk and breifly alert miners that its probably a bad idea if they dont want to get cucked. On the other hand miners discovering ash lizards should try to be respectful and make thier presence either brief and unknown or immediately surrender, being robbed (if player discretion says so) and leave if they dont want to aggro them, provoking them aggressively so sensitively near the nest is going to be a thorny subject to negitiations

> Unarmed civilians who are not aggressive should be de-prioritised as prey for not being a worthy hunt. Typically to defuse a ash walker confrontation, dropping your weapons is recommended, ash walkers cant use guns and ash walkers who try to dispose of guns after 'surrendering' should be punished. If you put up your dukes or ignore a ash lizards warnings expect to get dunked validly.

In the end it should be player discretion to the flexibility of these policy rules but exceedingly shit plays or excessive murderbone should be accounted for.

Im by no means a hater of ash lizards, im more or less a fan of playing them and as a insiders insight i do think the policy needs to change. More often than not given the reputation, other ghost roles (vault people especially) are glad to not be disembowelled and offered to a tendril without means to respawn just because some ash walkers want to poach a easy hunt.

I have also suggested the basis of a PR and a forum suggestion thread on a way to stabilise a ashwalker economy, so they have something other to do than purely "validhunt" and give the crew a opt in/opt out way of getting rich quick for smashing some ash walker skulls to rob coins with the possibility to backfire and give the ash walkers a green light to pillage.

> Ashwalker forum thread
> Ashwalker PR

feedback on these little discussed people would be appreciated. Thanks

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Re: Ashwalker Hunting Equiette

Post by Cobby » #213997

There's a new thing now where ash lizards like to bring megafauna to the base. Let's not do that.
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Re: Ashwalker Hunting Equiette

Post by FantasticFwoosh » #213999

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:There's a new thing now where ash lizards like to bring megafauna to the base. Let's not do that.
Like really i agree with you there, there's a fine line between somewhat valid and just screwing others (and often your own kind) to griff, historically friendly antags can still be antags but are usually inclined to 'trade' to forward their interests = giving science tech, not killing specific people (reed etc)

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Re: Ashwalker Hunting Equiette

Post by Cobby » #214023

FantasticFwoosh wrote:
ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:There's a new thing now where ash lizards like to bring megafauna to the base. Let's not do that.
Like really i agree with you there, there's a fine line between somewhat valid and just screwing others (and often your own kind) to griff, historically friendly antags can still be antags but are usually inclined to 'trade' to forward their interests = giving science tech, not killing specific people (reed etc)
My take on it is if you are going to fuck over the ashwalkers, don't go ashwalker [much like if you aren't going to follow drone laws, don't go drone].
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Re: Ashwalker Hunting Equiette

Post by FantasticFwoosh » #214124

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:
FantasticFwoosh wrote:
ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:There's a new thing now where ash lizards like to bring megafauna to the base. Let's not do that.
Like really i agree with you there, there's a fine line between somewhat valid and just screwing others (and often your own kind) to griff, historically friendly antags can still be antags but are usually inclined to 'trade' to forward their interests = giving science tech, not killing specific people (reed etc)
My take on it is if you are going to fuck over the ashwalkers, don't go ashwalker [much like if you aren't going to follow drone laws, don't go drone].
That's dumb. NOBODY playing (which really is the only relevant point, ghosts dont hang around and pick ash eggs at any particular time, they jump right in and expand the tribe or jump back in the saddle to reclaim their corpse/dropped items) even knows when a miner is going to burst though that wall, and most miners already have the mindset that they are free to do whatever they like on lava-land and specifically the valid lizards with no mercy for their own sick pleasure.

Miners also tend to dump the eggs in lava/chasms (some very scummy lizards also run out and dump their own eggs in lava, and are tided by other lizards), so your piece of advice is to sit around and let the entire ruin functionality be destroyed because miners want a effortless phazon core and malf ai board/potential diamonds for no self effort and are willing to meta tunnel (1x4 tunnels using the plasma cutter) through lavaland to find ruins faster which they are probably metacomming with observers to locate, beside following GPS instead of mining (im really trying to restrain myself going off on a tangent arguement about miners).

Common strategies are that miners (be them plasma-men or regular) dressed in dragon suits, deliberately use a plasma-man strategy (and bug) of setting themselves permanently on fire using booze or lava to cover themselves in flammable liquid, running through ashwalkers then murdering them on the spot while they roll or die to fire damage or otherwise use mining loot like ranged stands/weapons (i've seen gibtonite used to breach the cult walls to quickly cull the nest), not to mention that default KA's can kill normal ashwalkers in 2 shots even without the power and aoe upgrades of the KA. (ill stop salting about the miner murderbone power creep but that's the situation as it is now, ashwalkers stood more of a chance when they were implemented but not a chance in hell now against prepared miners)

So really just dont play because you're going to be screwed eitherway and your eggs and central objective are going to be destroyed? In my own opinion ashwalkers as they are now should be completely removed from the game as mercy or re-worked, because its too much of a duck shoot for miners.

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Re: Ashwalker Hunting Equiette

Post by calzilla1 » #214140

MORE LIKE REDDIQUETTE YOU KNA WAH AM SAYIM?
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Re: Ashwalker Hunting Equiette

Post by Grazyn » #214166

Ash walkers are the primitive natives of Lavaland. Miners are armed prospectors employed by a galaxy-wide supercorporation. The game accurately simulates what happens when explorers from a technologically advanced society encounter stone-age natives holding access to precious resources: the primitives are exterminated, their settlement is razed, and anything of use is collected or re-purposed.
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Re: Ashwalker Hunting Equiette

Post by TheColdTurtle » #214168

Who knew ss13 would really make me think huh
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Re: Ashwalker Hunting Equiette

Post by Cobby » #214178

FantasticFwoosh wrote:wake me up
I was referring to grieffing fellow ashwalkers, as an ashwalker, by luring bosses. I think you're discussing miners killing ashies FNR.
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Re: Ashwalker Hunting Equiette

Post by FantasticFwoosh » #214358

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:
FantasticFwoosh wrote:wake me up
I was referring to grieffing fellow ashwalkers, as an ashwalker, by luring bosses. I think you're discussing miners killing ashies FNR.
Whichever situation you inevitably 'lose'. The content is wiped out of the game either by a camping legion skull or dragons and other mobs waiting in the wings to devour your corpse whether the tendril has been sacked yet or not. Same goes for miners finding ashies, its as much devastation and you might as well not play and watch your ghost role you invested time into FNR trashed, sacked and removed from the game. Same applies to both relevantly.

For the best of both worlds, miners are also keep on luring dragons to ashwalker compounds to kill two birds with one stone, i've seen it happen personally and been completely thrown to the side by admins when i ahelped it (trialmin - they challenged me to find a reason or clause why they should care about ashwalkers being abused by metagaming boss luring). Why are you making ghost roles antagonistic if the powercreep is scaled too high, it isn't worth playing at all.

Admins are taking liberties to just ignore the usual protections applied to ALL other people on the server.

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Re: Ashwalker Hunting Equiette

Post by onleavedontatme » #214374

Ash Walkers exist because Ausops said he wanted to purge heretic lizards in the wastes. That's why they're there.
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Re: Ashwalker Hunting Equiette

Post by FantasticFwoosh » #214388

I propose a boycott of playing ashwalkers.

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Re: Ashwalker Hunting Equiette

Post by lzimann » #214432

Well no one is forcing you to play as ash walker to begin with.
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Re: Ashwalker Hunting Equiette

Post by TheColdTurtle » #214445

Ignore him lehmann, he isn't the brightest tool
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Re: Ashwalker Hunting Equiette

Post by FantasticFwoosh » #214465

TheColdTurtle wrote:Ignore him lehmann, he isn't the brightest tool
Somebody once told me the world is gonna roll me
I ain't the sharpest tool in the shed

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Re: Ashwalker Hunting Equiette

Post by Cobby » #214481

FantasticFwoosh wrote:words
I might just be retarded because my name is pink in ooc, but i'm 99% sure there's a difference between...

...A Miner, who is suppose to cull the tribes of lizardmen in the wastes of hell, luring a megafauna with the intention of killing said lizardmen [which is perfectly ok]
and
...An Ashligger who sees a boss, aggros it, then brings it to the location to kill his fellow ashwalkers [not ok].


One is Someone being creative with their valids, the other is dicking over the ghost role team as a member of said team.

If the issue is you not wanting to work as a team with fellow ashwalkers, then simply don't play as a team oriented ghost role, or at the very least don't get them all killed. For the most part, unless you're an initial ashwalker, it required the help of those people to provide you that ghost role. Spitting in the hand that fed you is awfully trashy.
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Re: Ashwalker Hunting Equiette

Post by FantasticFwoosh » #214490

Powercreep has gotten to a level to which it outscales (no pun intended) teamwork given that such additions like pernament fire spells (ash drake spell loot for coating yourself in never ending fire propellant) makes it impossible to disarm the horribly overpowered guns and loot miners possess. Because if they bunch up at all, they all get caught on fire as the miners run in back and forth and other ashwalkers get caught on fire in a inferno. they have to roll to extinguish and summarily killed. Dragon scale is also brute resistant to regular improv spears (axes and bone spears are stronger but suck up valuable resources gained from minutes upon minutes of hunting) meaning less chance to impale.

10 ashwalkers might just be able to DISARM a KA wielding miner in dragon suit (whilst not on fire) in a open area, but thats a tall order to call all of them to co-operate competently, and also have the ckeys ready to fill the gaps (circumstantially) not to mention screaming miners who just call in more miners in a uphill battle.

You'd need to be lucky as hell or really super meta-aggressive against miners striking them early to actually make a difference, but miners also hunt bosses early too and gain a edge, i've seen miners only go out during a active war-ops round and get back in a full drake suit by atleast the 8-10 minute mark by the time the ops arrive.

> Stands are also the same issue as they were on the station against groups of poorly armed people equipped with only ranged - In essentially having two people attacking at once, emerald shower ranged stand is very strong in the open areas of lavaland (not to mentioned combined health and Q delete of body and items making it worthless for ashwalkers to resist against their strong onslaught)

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Re: Ashwalker Hunting Equiette

Post by Wyzack » #214500

I believe this is the appropirate thread to have this discussion

Ashwalkers are a ghost role. They literally exist to act as a small foil to the miners and are not in any way supposed to be able to beat them with any regularity, nor should they be able to attack the station frequently. It is basically a slightly funner alternative to observing the round as a ghost, and should not be balanced to have an even fight against miners. If this is disagreeable to you the easy method is to not click the eggs
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Re: Ashwalker Hunting Equiette

Post by FantasticFwoosh » #214502

If you want to watch your ghost roles fade into obscurity because its just a moving target duckhunt that panders to community's grotesque fixation on killing lizards guilt free inherent towards probably related to some kind of restrained real world aggression or drive otherwise then there's nothing to discuss. close this thread please.

I appear to have misunderstood the coderbuses intentions of instead of a fun and unique ghost role to play away on mining, as literally a test dummy for power-creep greifing.
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Re: Ashwalker Hunting Equiette

Post by 420goslingboy69 » #214504

Wyzack wrote:I believe this is the appropirate thread to have this discussion

Ashwalkers are a ghost role. They literally exist to act as a small foil to the miners and are not in any way supposed to be able to beat them with any regularity, nor should they be able to attack the station frequently. It is basically a slightly funner alternative to observing the round as a ghost, and should not be balanced to have an even fight against miners. If this is disagreeable to you the easy method is to not click the eggs
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Re: Ashwalker Hunting Equiette

Post by Wyzack » #214531

In fact Fwoosh your attitude on the matter was one of the bigger reasons why people did not want them implemented in the first place, and why drone laws are zero tolerance. As any ghost role you have zero rights, full stop
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Re: Ashwalker Hunting Equiette

Post by onleavedontatme » #214568

I wish Wyzack was still an admin.
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Re: Ashwalker Hunting Equiette

Post by Wyzack » #214580

Aw thanks man, that is goin in the old sig.
Arthur Thomson says, "Since there are no admins I would loging with another account and kill you"
Caleb Robinson laughs.
Arthur Thomson catches fire!
tusterman11 wrote:Can you stop lying? I just asked you and you are was a piece of shiit on me!!!
Kor wrote:I wish Wyzack was still an admin.
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Re: Ashwalker Hunting Equiette

Post by Incomptinence » #214586

Less rights but not quite zero I would like. Saeg's syndicate abuse cage on that poorly designed away mission showcased how bad zero rights can make a situation, an admin can basically use it as a license to grief.

Also some ghost roles have obligations to actual players like say xenobio creations, would be a shame if some admin basically hoovered up a whole rounds work in the form of sentient mobs and golems because zero rights.
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Re: Ashwalker Hunting Equiette

Post by Grazyn » #214592

FantasticFwoosh wrote:Powercreep has gotten to a level to which it outscales (no pun intended) teamwork given that such additions like pernament fire spells (ash drake spell loot for coating yourself in never ending fire propellant) makes it impossible to disarm the horribly overpowered guns and loot miners possess. Because if they bunch up at all, they all get caught on fire as the miners run in back and forth and other ashwalkers get caught on fire in a inferno. they have to roll to extinguish and summarily killed. Dragon scale is also brute resistant to regular improv spears (axes and bone spears are stronger but suck up valuable resources gained from minutes upon minutes of hunting) meaning less chance to impale.

10 ashwalkers might just be able to DISARM a KA wielding miner in dragon suit (whilst not on fire) in a open area, but thats a tall order to call all of them to co-operate competently, and also have the ckeys ready to fill the gaps (circumstantially) not to mention screaming miners who just call in more miners in a uphill battle.

You'd need to be lucky as hell or really super meta-aggressive against miners striking them early to actually make a difference, but miners also hunt bosses early too and gain a edge, i've seen miners only go out during a active war-ops round and get back in a full drake suit by atleast the 8-10 minute mark by the time the ops arrive.

> Stands are also the same issue as they were on the station against groups of poorly armed people equipped with only ranged - In essentially having two people attacking at once, emerald shower ranged stand is very strong in the open areas of lavaland (not to mentioned combined health and Q delete of body and items making it worthless for ashwalkers to resist against their strong onslaught)
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