The Official Campaign for Clown Human Rights (honk)

Jacough · Post by **Jacough** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:35 am #13050

http://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=665

topic related
So this is kind of a behavior pattern I've noticed becoming a problem, especially on Sybil. Lately it seems the clown has been reduced to nothing more than the station punching bag. While that's understandable if the clown's being shit, It's gotten to the point where the clown usually starts off as and always is the station punching bag. Feel like a bit of kill baiting? The clown's the answer. Feel like just beating the shit out of something with little if any reprocutions? The clown is your answer.

In the past, I've chosen the clown role when I wanted a mostly low pressure role, something I could just sort of goof off with and have fun with. Last time I played clown though I tried to go from department to department telling jokes and performing magic tricks. What happens? An assistant immediately rushes me round start and constantly tries to bait me into attacing him through my entire time in the round by shoving me around and disarming me. Later another assistant stabs with a broken bottle into the orange for shits and giggles. Security of course does nothing to help me because "lol clown is subhuman". I'll admit, I ended my time in the round in an incredibly shitty fashion. I smashed a bottle over an assistant's head in the bar and set them on fire before quiting.

This of course, was unacceptable of me but at the same time a byproduct of me spending an entire round harassed and seriously fucking harmed by greytiding shitlers after... what? Telling a couple of harmless jokes at the windows of various departments? Granted it was a petty act of revenge on my part but at the same time, I had spent almost the entire round being harassed for absolutely no reason. I hadn't slipped anyone. I hadn't hurt anyone. The worst I had done was tell some distasteful jokes about hipsters and shit.

Basically what I'm saying is that it seems like the clown is just sort of turning into the Nox station clown, minus the "no rules" benifit on the clown's side. A shit clown who spends his time just trying to piss the crew off can really fuck over the crew and just end up being a pain in the ass that deserves a trip out the airlock. A clown who ain't a shit though can be a hero to the crew, and spice rounds up while adding some unique flavoring and hilarity to it. The problem is that lately the attitude seems to be "clown on station, gottat robust fast, huehuehue". This basically leaves little if any insentive to said good type of clown and just encourages dick clowns because "hey, they're going to try to robust me anyway. Might as well fuck them over while I have the chance". It'd be nice to see the admins try to take some actions to counteract this kind of attitude on the servers.

Lovecraft · Post by **Lovecraft** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:27 am #13069

This is the result off too many people playing the job as a ticket to be a shitler and get away with it.
That statement might sound a little generalizing, but it's almost an exact quote from a regular Clown shitlord. I like to remember things like that so I know how not to play.
Honestly, all you can do is stay silent, don't provoke, or give them reason to attack more, and admit help with full details.
Myself, I hate Clowns and your whole post almost sent me into a fit of giggles. Just imagining a Clown walking around, department to department, constantly getting wordlessly assaulted is fucking hilarious.
So yeah. Don't agitate after you've been assaulted, admit help if it's the same people, ect.

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:33 am #13071

no paprika he does have a point
being a clown shouldnt open you up to random abuse or murder just for being the clown
being the clown doesnt make you valid and starting random fights with other people wouldnt be OK, so why is it OK if it's the clown? especially if they're not being an asshole
assuming all clowns are shitlers because a lot of clowns are shitlers is retarded too. should assistants be valid, too? what about security? oh right, no, that isn't true.
saying "dont fight back just let them keep assaulting you and then adminhelp it" is an awful mindset. it shouldnt be allowed in the first place.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:36 am #13072

Almost every time I tried to be nice clown, I got my shit stolen, got beaten up, etc. I don't play clown anymore.

I don't think that "you can be shit, but people can be shit towards you" politics are particularly good. Everyone is just being shit to one another. That goes toward antags as well.

Lovecraft · Post by **Lovecraft** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:40 am #13073

Of course it shouldn't be allowed, that's why it's being adminhelped.
I just foresee many cases being dropped because "it's an ic issue at this point" due to both parties brawling until one side is killed.
How bad does the assistant look when the logs just show them insulting and assaulting the clown and nothing else versus a 10 minute brawl where both sides are making moves?
I'm not saying the assault to start with is acceptable (and it's fuckingg hilarious to mentally picture), I'm saying give them absolutely nothing to whine to the admins about.

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:54 am #13074

I remember once as janitor someone randomly smashed a bottle over my head, and I adminhelped after I was healed. I still went after them and attacked them yet they were almost instantly banned for killbaiting.
When someone is endlessly trying to start shit it's pretty damn obvious they're killbaiting.

Lovecraft · Post by **Lovecraft** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:55 am #13075

#RiseAbovetheViolence

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:57 am #13076

Unless you happened to have an antag status. Good luck getting justice done even if you didn't do anything at all to provoke the attack.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:57 am #13090

[youtube]xy5NheEQa5I[/youtube]

AseaHeru · Post by **AseaHeru** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:21 pm #13127

And I cant see the image. Joy.

That said, the OP sounds like their round was rather shit, and sadly I can sorta see where its coming from, that being the clowns that think they have a license to kill/be a dick.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:34 pm #13164

Lovecraft wrote:Of course it shouldn't be allowed, that's why it's being adminhelped.
I just foresee many cases being dropped because "it's an ic issue at this point" due to both parties brawling until one side is killed.

The problem with "it's an IC issue" is that you will almost never find anything even approaching an IC resolution to anything, let alone a satisfactory one. This goes triple if you're the clown. Someone steals your ID or PDA or mask? Security is guaranteed not to give a shit. Got beaten into crit? "Fuck off clown." Et cetera.

Helios127 · Post by **Helios127** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:59 pm #13170

Its even worse when sec are the guys stealing your mask.

Because fuck.

Pandarsenic · Post by **Pandarsenic** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:57 pm #13196

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:Unless you happened to have an antag status. Good luck getting justice done even if you didn't do anything at all to provoke the attack.

This, and double good luck if you're a straight traitor and they steal your PDA because lelclown.

Hornygranny · Post by **Hornygranny** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:44 pm #13204

Years ago I used to carry a bottle of p-acid with me in case the clown got arrested, so I could destroy all of his clown items.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:22 pm #13221

guys i found this cool solution to you getting bullied when you play clown

Spoiler:

seriously all the shitter clown players, you brought this on yourself stop being crybabies unironically

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:40 pm #13225

guys I found this cool solution for being graytided when you play security, don't play security
guys I found this cool solution for being fucked over by shit cultists, don't play cult
guys I found this cool solution for being propositioned for sex when you play medical doctor, don't play medical doctor

Lovecraft · Post by **Lovecraft** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:44 pm #13226

Oh well. A lot of the times I've played Clown I've had great experiences.
Though there's always people who scream at me for doing anything.
Weirdest experience was near round start, and bandit screamed at me for entering the Medbay lobby as a Clown. Before I even walked in the door, I was just standing in the lobby with a mime and was told to leave.
It's everyone's fault that Clowns get beat.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:01 pm #13228

I don't remember this round, but the only time I've kicked clowns out is if they do shit like lubing, stealing gloves / other shit they shouldn't steal, or interfering with patients getting healed.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:01 pm #13236

bandit wrote:guys I found this cool solution for being graytided when you play security, don't play security

Literally sec's job to deal with criminals get good

bandit wrote: guys I found this cool solution for being propositioned for sex when you play medical doctor, don't play medical doctor

I know you're joking but seriously when does that ever happen outside of jokes

bandit wrote:guys I found this cool solution for being fucked over by shit cultists, don't play cult

Exactly, if you're not prepared for bad teammates you shouldn't tick team-centric antag roles, especially on servers with high populations

Face it, it's the clown's job to be a punching bag, he's not useful for anything else at all. So if you're saying we should remove clown entirely like bay did, i agree. Because trying to make it bannable for beating up the clown when he slips you is fucking hilarious.

Konork · Post by **Konork** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:56 pm #13256

paprika wrote:Because trying to make it bannable for beating up the clown when he slips you is fucking hilarious.

Pretty sure the big thing here is that people beat up the clown purely because of past clown-based shittery by other players, even if that specific clown's done nothing wrong and had no plans on doing anything even remotely shit

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:47 am #13265

The big thing here is blaming grief on the player being griefed, and what people are describing is pretty much grief. The fact that the person being griefed is playing clown doesn't change shit. I also think the "they only grief clowns because past clowns have been bad" is bullshit, much like "they only graytide because security sucks" is bullshit. People who want to grief will find a way to grief no matter what other players are like, usually by doing it to people/roles where they can get away with it.

Helios127 · Post by **Helios127** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:12 am #13267

Can the clown at least get a way to replace his mask? Having it stolen by Sec is not fun.

Jacough · Post by **Jacough** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 4:28 am #13289

Because trying to make it bannable for beating up the clown when he slips you is fucking hilarious.

This isn't about beating the clown for slipping people. As crazy as it sounds, not ever clown player does that. With my case for example, I literally did nothing but go from department to department telling stupid jokes. You wanna start making it alright to beat security officers for no reason just because some people playing security have a history of harm batoning people too?

danno · Post by **danno** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 5:25 am #13295

Helios127 wrote:Can the clown at least get a way to replace his mask? Having it stolen by Sec is not fun.

I think that trying to protect clowns is assblastingly stupid but this makes sense. maybe give him a "clown magic" tab with a verb that spawns a mask with a loud honk. long cooldown.

Lovecraft · Post by **Lovecraft** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 5:40 am #13297

danno wrote:
Helios127 wrote:Can the clown at least get a way to replace his mask? Having it stolen by Sec is not fun.
I think that trying to protect clowns is assblastingly stupid but this makes sense. maybe give him a "clown magic" tab with a verb that spawns a mask with a loud honk. long cooldown.

I'd rather not, this opens up a platform for "Clown Magic Ideas" threads.
Most Clowns I know just head to Cargo for a replacement and usually get one.

Helios127 · Post by **Helios127** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:19 am #13311

Lovecraft wrote:
danno wrote:
Helios127 wrote:Can the clown at least get a way to replace his mask? Having it stolen by Sec is not fun.
I think that trying to protect clowns is assblastingly stupid but this makes sense. maybe give him a "clown magic" tab with a verb that spawns a mask with a loud honk. long cooldown.
I'd rather not, this opens up a platform for "Clown Magic Ideas" threads.
Most Clowns I know just head to Cargo for a replacement and usually get one.

But Mimes have Mime Magic! So its not totally breaking for "Summon new mask" to be a thing.

Either way, off topic.

also clowns could once do clown magic in the form of destroying guns. This was changed tho

Incomptinence · Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:23 am

Helios127 wrote:Can the clown at least get a way to replace his mask? Having it stolen by Sec is not fun.

Standard costume crate contains full clown and mime costumes.

Clown doesn't have a grief license and neither do you. Can the ludicrous guilt by association nonsense, might as well have roles try to grief each other out of being played instead of administrating them if we stoop to that mean spirited poppycock.

Blonkz · Post by **Blonkz** » Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:01 am #13444

paprika wrote:guys i found this cool solution to you getting bullied when you play clown

Spoiler:
don't play clown
seriously all the shitter clown players, you brought this on yourself stop being crybabies unironically

Basically this for other reasons.

I never, even once, griefed as clown and was "validly" killed, permabrigged, gibbed, spaced, welderlocked, gulag'd, mutated, fed to aliums, slimes, held in xenobiology, locked into maint, ...., for the "ic issue" of me being the stations clown.

Mind you, I dont mind being killed, even without escalation for trivialities like slipping a douchebag, but I am talking about all these things happening without provocation (aside from "signing up as clown)" in addition to admins declaring it "ic issue" or "valid".

Mind you, the last time I played clown regularly is over a year ago, because to me it's not worth the grief I get.

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Sat Jun 14, 2014 11:18 am #13461

my personal solution is to not wear the clown costume when i play clown and instead just use the position to be an entertainer
plus the costume is ugly anyway, even if it is iconic

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:53 pm #13521

Just a few rounds ago I was a security officer trying to stop the CMO and chemist from shooting and morguing alive the clown. Their reasoning was literally "it's OK because it's the clown." (Nuke ops round, so neither were antags.) This is basically EXACTLY like excusing gray tide based on "all the shitcurity players brought it on themselves."

Cheridan · Post by **Cheridan** » Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:59 pm #13547

bandit wrote:guys I found this cool solution for being graytided when you play security, don't play security
guys I found this cool solution for being fucked over by shit cultists, don't play cult
guys I found this cool solution for being propositioned for sex when you play medical doctor, don't play medical doctor

spoiler: this is why everyone plays assistant vigilante

Anyway, I think that we could use a memo on the servers that says something along the lines of CLOWN IS AN ACTUAL CREWMEMBER, IT'S NOT OK TO GRIEF HIM etc etc. I think that Nox may have caused some confusion in people, if someone comes here from that server they might assume that the rules are the same. Not everyone's smart enough to ask an admin before they le space le clown xd

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:02 pm #13899

Jacough wrote:You wanna start making it alright to beat security officers for no reason just because some people playing security have a history of harm batoning people too?

But this is already okay according to sybil's assistant playerbase and an okay thing to do no matter what at roundstart and I have yet to see admins hand out assistant bans like fucking candy for it because they don't want to be seen as the fun hater shitcurity apologist apparently. Admins actually catch flak (from other admins) for punishing people too harshly for grey tiding, i shit you not.

callanrockslol · Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:33 pm

paprika wrote:
Jacough wrote:You wanna start making it alright to beat security officers for no reason just because some people playing security have a history of harm batoning people too?
But this is already okay according to sybil's assistant playerbase and an okay thing to do no matter what at roundstart and I have yet to see admins hand out assistant bans like fucking candy for it because they don't want to be seen as the fun hater shitcurity apologist apparently. Admins actually catch flak (from other admins) for punishing people too harshly for grey tiding, i shit you not.

Because most of the shit assistants do is IC dealt with, its not full on GREYTIDE WORLDWIDE HURRR DURRR WELDERBOMB EVERYTHING.

And regardless, its better than the last time sec had full admin support and could do no wrong its your own fault for being brigged for loitering in the bar etc.

kosmos · Post by **kosmos** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:29 am #14484

Cheridan wrote:Anyway, I think that we could use a memo on the servers that says something along the lines of CLOWN IS AN ACTUAL CREWMEMBER, IT'S NOT OK TO GRIEF HIM etc etc. I think that Nox may have caused some confusion in people...

Or simply have the admins do their job. Have the clowns themselves know that that's not acceptable, adminhelp it, and let the admins teach the people.

Aurx · Post by **Aurx** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:31 pm #14560

kosmos wrote:
Cheridan wrote:Anyway, I think that we could use a memo on the servers that says something along the lines of CLOWN IS AN ACTUAL CREWMEMBER, IT'S NOT OK TO GRIEF HIM etc etc. I think that Nox may have caused some confusion in people...
Or simply have the admins do their job. Have the clowns themselves know that that's not acceptable, adminhelp it, and let the admins teach the people.

The trick is getting people to actually adminhelp issues, and in a timely manner. For some reason, people seem allergic to adminhelping mid-round. It's infuriating when people wait until the restart timer is ticking to adminhelp "George Melons beat me to death with a toolbox FNR, wasn't antag", because then we have to delay EVERYBODY's new round to settle one person's issue just because they had to wait. And that's not even scratching the surface of the issue of people who refuse to adminhelp and instead just bitch on 4chan, in OOC, or on the forums instead.

Alzam · Post by **Alzam** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:46 pm #14562

It doesn't help that some admins tell you explicitly to wait till round end to ahelp.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:10 pm #14568

And the risk of being accused of causing the trouble and banned for ban baiting

Before you say "well if you didn't attack first you're okay", it's not always that simple. For example, one side annoys the other one, but isn't violent, while the other side starts the fight. Or one side starts the fight, but the other side deals with it very harshly, like kills them or crits them or whatever.

So if you ahelp, you risk being banned yourself, which is fucking retarded, people should never be banned for adminhelping instead of their actual actions in the game. Unless it's junk, but isn't there ahelp mute? Mute should be applied more often.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:13 pm #14569

No reason why not, can also give the same option to the mime.

In the rare time's I have played as a Clown (Read several months ago) people went out of their way to antagonise me, as well as attempt to loot my mask. It got annoying.

Aurx · Post by **Aurx** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:20 pm #14581

Alzam wrote:It doesn't help that some admins tell you explicitly to wait till round end to ahelp.

Which admins?

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:So if you ahelp, you risk being banned yourself, which is fucking retarded, people should never be banned for adminhelping instead of their actual actions in the game.

Of the last 1500 bans, spanning a period of three months, there is exactly one ban for ban baiting, and that ban was placed for lying to admins and banbaiting. Banbaiting isn't some mysterious thing that only admins understand, it's the EXACT SAME THING as killbaiting except with ahelping instead of killing them. There's no reason for anybody innocent to be worried about ahelping.

Alzam · Post by **Alzam** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:39 pm #14588

I'll admit I can't remember specific names, but if there's one thing that has never been consistent on my years playing on this server it's admin policy regarding when to ahelp. I haven't had to ahelp in general much at all recently though so I can't say how true this still is, just going off past history.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:06 pm #14592

Aurx wrote:Of the last 1500 bans, spanning a period of three months, there is exactly one ban for ban baiting, and that ban was placed for lying to admins and banbaiting. Banbaiting isn't some mysterious thing that only admins understand, it's the EXACT SAME THING as killbaiting except with ahelping instead of killing them. There's no reason for anybody innocent to be worried about ahelping.

I was banned for banbaiting because I didn't properly evaluate the amount of damage I did and got myself lynched. I guess the fact that admin fucked up and banned the other side helped, though I fail to understand what that had to do with me. I guess I confused the admin by ahelping. How vicious of me.

So I guess you can ignore my bitching, if that statistic is the case.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:52 am #14686

Yeah, I adminhelp in mid-round unless it's obvious the guy's an antag (murdering with an ebow/esword, etc), but I always get the impression that this annoys admins more than anything. As in, I have heard multiple admins (can't remember names, sorry, no steno for you) bitch about it.

Erisian · Post by **Erisian** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:12 am #14958

I've personally never seen this as some major epidemic, and I usually play as a clown and tend to just wander around anywhere and everywhere with no troubles. Sure, the clown shouldn't be beaten up randomly, but you know going into that role that there's going to be a few people who hate you simply for being a clown. You need to learn how to roll with the punches (literally in some cases) and just do your thing. And it happens to everybody. Play as an assistant and you'll be smacked over the head with a bottle or anything else just as much. That's just part of the game and random shit that happens here that makes the game dynamic and fun to begin with.

Ya gotta learn how to take that kind of behavior if you're gonna play any sort of role that's more about just doing whatever (Assistant, clown, and mime). The clown just happens to be an icon of SS13 and stands out above the others. Especially when a lot of people play clown just as a way to piss people off and not try to actually do fun things. Get beaten and have your mask stolen? Shit happens. Someone takes your shoes? Shit happens. I've had far worse happen to me before and ya just have to let it go. Be imaginative. Rather than adminhelping "assistant mcgriff stole mai mask fnr pls ban" start shouting on the radio that the mask is imbued with powers from the Honkmother that gives powers to all who wield it and have others chase him down and have a fun event of it. Think on your feet and turn that grief into something more fun and interesting instead of being assblasted. That's just part of playing the clown and the legacy of shitlers you're stepping into. If ya can't roll with it, just don't play it.

If someone murders you and they're not an antag, fine adminhelp to your heart's content, but there shouldn't be some special hugbox for people who get upset because they wanted to be a clown and ended up getting pranked by the rest of the crew instead.

Pandarsenic · Post by **Pandarsenic** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:24 pm #14973

Fun Fact Hour:

My first time being banned on SS13 was because literally seconds into a round (before I could set my clown name) I was rushed down and beaten into critical, then left on the theater floor. I figured clowns were fair game to give and get, so I later slipped a different person on my PDA, shoved him into the gibber, and turned him into hamburgers, which I then ate.

damiac · Post by **damiac** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:28 pm #15001

Erisian wrote:I've personally never seen this as some major epidemic, and I usually play as an assistant and tend to just wander around anywhere and everywhere with no troubles. Sure, the assistant shouldn't be beaten up randomly, but you know going into that role that there's going to be a few people who hate you simply for being an assistant. You need to learn how to roll with the punches (literally in some cases) and just do your thing. And it happens to everybody. Play as an assistant and you'll be smacked over the head with a bottle or anything else just as much. That's just part of the game and random shit that happens here that makes the game dynamic and fun to begin with.

Ya gotta learn how to take that kind of behavior if you're gonna play any sort of role that's more about just doing whatever (Assistant, clown, and mime). The assistant just happens to be an icon of SS13 and stands out above the others. Especially when a lot of people play assistant just as a way to piss people off and not try to actually do fun things. Get beaten and have your mask stolen? Shit happens. Someone takes your shoes? Shit happens. I've had far worse happen to me before and ya just have to let it go. Be imaginative. Rather than adminhelping "assistant mcgriff stole mai mask fnr pls ban" start shouting on the radio that the mask is imbued with powers from the greytide that gives powers to all who wield it and have others chase him down and have a fun event of it. Think on your feet and turn that grief into something more fun and interesting instead of being assblasted. That's just part of playing the clown and the legacy of greytiders you're stepping into. If ya can't roll with it, just don't play it.

If someone murders you and they're not an antag, fine adminhelp to your heart's content, but there shouldn't be some special hugbox for people who get upset because they wanted to be an assistant and ended up getting griefed by the rest of the crew instead.

Same thing?
How about sec, because they've got a legacy of shitlers just as long as the clown's.
Don't get me started on HoP's, I've played with a lot of asshole HoP's, so I guess they're fair game to 'prank' too, right?

The clown is supposed to go around, doing silly stuff, and it's fine for the crew to do silly stuff back. Stuncuffing and stripping, or beating the clown into crit isn't covered there. Of course, clowns whose idea of 'silly stuff' is basically griefing should be punished just like anyone else too.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:57 pm #16336

paprika wrote:Because trying to make it bannable for beating up the clown when he slips you is fucking hilarious.

With this sort of mindset, you being inconvenienced for a couple seconds might as well make the clown valid. The clown slipped you with a banana peel you either didn't see or chose not to see. If your instant reaction is to beat them half to death (or beat them at all really) I'd think its time to sort out some personal aggression issues.