Ash walkers killing tendrils?

Slignerd · Post by **Slignerd** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:30 pm #209110

So, here's the thing - ash walkers can use necropolis tendrils for a steady supply of corpses. Especially in case of legion tendrils, it's basically free legion souls along with free bodies. Generally something nice to have, right? Then there's that one lizard that walks up to it and start slashing it with it spear, wasting its potential entirely. I could understand killing a goliath, or watcher tendril, but in case of legion tendrils, that's just being stupidly wasteful.

Should this kind of thing be acceptable? Ash walkers are supposed to consider lavaland creatures "sacred bounty" - basically an unending hunt. Tendrils directly help with it. Yet all it takes is one unintelligent lizard to fuck it up entirely. Can we prevent it somehow, and bar ash walkers from killing useful tendrils, just like hotel staff isn't supposed to leave the hotel?

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:33 pm #209112

How about changing it so a soulless corpse can't be used to churn free lives so this issue is fixed and you don't have powergaming ashliggers getting infinite eggs.

Post by **Archie700** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:33 pm #209113

It's a choice between UNLIMITED SUPPLY OF BODIES or FREE LOOT.

Anyway, ass liggers are douchebags, let them do what they want.

Post by **Archie700** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:35 pm #209114

J_Madison wrote:How about changing it so a soulless corpse can't be used to churn free lives so this issue is fixed and you don't have powergaming ashliggers getting infinite eggs.

>soulless

How about no.

Slignerd · Post by **Slignerd** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:38 pm #209117

Archie700 wrote:It's a choice between UNLIMITED SUPPLY OF BODIES or FREE LOOT.

Anyway, ass liggers are douchebags, let them do what they want.

They're essentially team antags, though. Stuff like this directly sabotages their team - it's no different than cultist leaving arcane tomes or clockwork slabs in public places such as Bar.

There should be a policy against this, IMO.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:39 pm #209118

No ligger rights

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:49 pm #209120

Archie700 wrote:
J_Madison wrote:How about changing it so a soulless corpse can't be used to churn free lives so this issue is fixed and you don't have powergaming ashliggers getting infinite eggs.
>soulless

How about no.

How about yes. Ashliggers have almost infinite lives as long as a corpse is recovered.

Post by **Archie700** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:51 pm #209121

Sligneris wrote:
Archie700 wrote:It's a choice between UNLIMITED SUPPLY OF BODIES or FREE LOOT.

Anyway, ass liggers are douchebags, let them do what they want.
They're essentially team antags, though. Stuff like this directly sabotages their team - it's no different than cultist leaving arcane tomes or clockwork slabs in public places such as Bar.

There should be a policy against this, IMO.

I don't think a ghost antag with a free pass to kill miners and invade the station should have rules on tendril farming.

TheColdTurtle · Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:52 pm

Isn't that the entire point? Also please add some sort of tutorial for ash lizards fucking somewhere so people don't waste the medical supplies and destroy tendrils

Post by **Archie700** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:54 pm #209124

J_Madison wrote:
Archie700 wrote:
J_Madison wrote:How about changing it so a soulless corpse can't be used to churn free lives so this issue is fixed and you don't have powergaming ashliggers getting infinite eggs.
>soulless

How about no.
How about yes. Ashliggers have almost infinite lives as long as a corpse is recovered.

Forcing them to kill miners to get eggs will make them MORE likely to fuck over mining.

There's no real fix except reworking ash walkers completely.

Slignerd · Post by **Slignerd** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:01 pm #209125

Ash walkers were designed to hunt lavaland mobs, while also being a threat to miners. Changing their entire purpose because you don't like the fact they exist is retarded, talking about a complete overhaul doesn't help us without details on such overhaul, and both those matters would belong in separate threads, to be honest.

Let's just focus on the matter of some lizards sabotaging their team, alright?

TheColdTurtle wrote:Isn't that the entire point? Also please add some sort of tutorial for ash lizards fucking somewhere so people don't waste the medical supplies and destroy tendrils

Destroying tendrils is on par with deconstructing RnD roundstart as Scientist and spacing the boards - admittedly, there is the difference in the form of loot, but it also greatly sabotages the team's progress, with no way to fix it. So, yeah. Much like with hotel staff, I'd like a policy on this stuff.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:04 pm #209126

Sligneris wrote:Destroying tendrils is on par with deconstructing RnD roundstart as TRAITOR Scientist and spacing the boards.

Fixed that for you.

Slignerd · Post by **Slignerd** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:07 pm #209127

If you need antag examples.... It's like a ganger cleaning the tags of its own gang, a cultist leaving arcane tomes or clockwork slabs at pubic place roundstart and ratting out fellow cultists, a nuclear operative bombing a part of operative shuttle and spacing the disk, a revolutionist engineer releasing the tesla engine... I could go on.

lzimann · Post by **lzimann** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:07 pm #209128

why is this even being discussed anyway, this subforum... i swear...

Post by **Atlanta-Ned** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:09 pm #209129

lzimann wrote:why is this even being discussed anyway, this subforum... i swear...

i need to know EXACTLY what i can and can't do!!!!1

Slignerd · Post by **Slignerd** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:20 pm #209133

I'd really prefer it if you took the matter more seriously instead of just shitposting all over the place, you know. Ash walkers are one of those roles with an assigned objective and it shouldn't be acceptable to sabotage it.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:26 pm #209134

Ghost roles have no rights. whatsoever. end of story.

Screemonster · Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:09 pm

I dunno, I thought it was a pretty good call when saeg banned that guy who got so salty after being killed as a miner by ashliggers that he joined as one himself and killed the tendril

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:12 pm #209161

That's just being a meta dick, this is just killing tendrils outside of the ligger base that can potentially drop useful loot that Slig wants to force people to farm for bodies.

Screemonster · Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:15 pm

oh, not the ligger tendril, the other ones

tbh fuck that, that's not even a scientist dismantling/spacing R&D

that's a scientist not bothering with R&D and instead fucking off to look for space ruins

D&B · Post by **D&B** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:11 pm #209196

Honestly i'd say it depends.

Goliath tendrils are horrible to have nearby because they're more trouble than what they're worth. You're better off killing those because one lucky goliath and a bunch of unrobust walkers can turn into a destroyed ash walker nest and a destroyed nest.

Slignerd · Post by **Slignerd** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:23 pm #209197

Yeah, I can see why you would do that with goliaths or watchers. But I've also seen lizards kill extremely useful legion tendrils. That's a lucky find as it is, and for that to be ruined completely by any single loot-hungry chucklefuck is frustrating.

ShadowDimentio · Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:14 pm

Ass walkers are fine, leave them alone.

BeeSting12 · Post by **BeeSting12** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:30 pm #209216

move this to the shed, moderating whether ash walkers can kill tendrils is overmoderating.

TehSteveo · Post by **TehSteveo** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:51 pm #209221

J_Madison wrote:How about changing it so a soulless corpse can't be used to churn free lives so this issue is fixed and you don't have powergaming ashliggers getting infinite eggs.

That'd kinda defeat the whole purpose of ashwalkers. They'd never be able to make any eggs at that point as everything they kill are pretty much lack a soul.

Post by **Armhulen** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:59 pm #209228

BeeSting12 wrote:move this to the shed, moderating whether ash walkers can kill tendrils is overmoderating.

TheNightingale · Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:19 pm

You don't have to powergame everything in sight. If there's a tendril threatening the nest, take it down or leave it up, it's up to you. Should it be against the rules for Science to deconstruct anomaly cores instead of using them in Phazons?

Slignerd · Post by **Slignerd** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:50 pm #209236

Well, if you know that someone has already started building a Phazon and is only missing an anomaly core, it's kind of a dick move. Especially if the person building said Phazon is from the same team.

Maybe at least add a hand labeler to ash lizard nest, so that I can label tendrils as "(DON'T KILL)", same with some "(DON'T TAKE OUT OF NEST)" on the bone axe, bone dagger, or the toolbox. In fact, that'll probably fix most of my problems. Please just add a hand labeler.

Incomptinence · Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:59 pm

Tendril loot could save the nest. I have shoved an evil sword into a miner's gut and saved the day before.

Slignerd · Post by **Slignerd** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:03 pm #209241

Well, last time I saw an ash walker kill a legion tendril that spawned right beneath the ash walker nest, the loot was a SORD. So you could say that left a sour taste in my mouth.

Post by **Archie700** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:06 pm #209243

Sligneris wrote:Well, if you know that someone has already started building a Phazon and is only missing an anomaly core, it's kind of a dick move. Especially if the person building said Phazon is from the same team.

Maybe at least add a hand laberer to ash lizard nest, so that I can label tendrils as "(DON'T KILL)".

That's better than making policy on this.

The queation is why bother making policy that enforces powergaming for ash walkers? That is like moderating when someone wants to build an autism fort instead of doing their job. Leave it to IC settling.

Well, last time I saw an ash walker kill a legion tendril that spawned right beneath the ash walker nest, the loot was a SORD. So you could say that left a sour taste in my mouth.

The luck of the draw.

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Wed Sep 07, 2016 2:09 am #209297

TheColdTurtle wrote:Isn't that the entire point? Also please add some sort of tutorial for ash lizards fucking somewhere so people don't waste the medical supplies and destroy tendrils

Pretty much this, I'll stop fucking shit up when I know how shit works. Someone got mad at me for using part of a medkit I found and I still don't know why.

Maybe if everything wasn't a vague mystery People wouldn't break so much shit, and while we're at it, the fuck is hotel staff or free golems?

Can't really blame me for jabbing my dick into your sandwich on this one, any one of you could write a wiki article, you can just use your account from here.

Gamarr · Post by **Gamarr** » Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:21 am #209315

What happens to tendrils imo depends upon the players, situation, needs, and the first ashers to start walking.
The sooner one is hunting, the more likely it will be to arm itself with bones and armor just through crafting of basic doodads.
How they treat/lead the rest of the tribe helps set the tone and conduct of those that come before (outside of salty ghosts, which is a separate issue).

Also treat it like Darwinism or such; if a fuckwit is killing tendrils, murder the fuck out of it for being wasteful and secure the eggs. There is always more tendrils, at least.

An issue that I can see however is round length, and thus how much investment a player puts into it. A tribe on Bagil would have ab it more to it, while a shorter sybil one may feel rushed, so to speak, because of the inevitable 'the round is going to go to shit and if we just sit on our hands, we're not going to have any fun with our grief-lizards.' there is also no actual restrictions to be said ash walker tribe outside of access to the eggs. This sadly results in salty shitlers wasting eggs and otherwise intentionally fucking the nest up. For now I don't know what else can be done for that other than ruling by power and maybe not always trusting a tribesman just because he is a tribesman.

As to Falamazeer, I would not worry if they are getting pissy at you using the medkits in all seriousness; if they were that worried or worth the time to worry about them, they would have told/explained it to you already. If they aren't offering any leadership or wisdom then they can fuck right off with their opinion on how to handle your lizardly business long as you aren't actively murdering the tribe fnr. Likewise, just ask for methods and advice: they might surprise you and actually socialize.

Krusvik · Post by **Krusvik** » Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:29 am #211809

I honestly don't see an issue here. Ash walkers are working as intended, they generate IC strife for lavaland and add an intelligent enemy to the wastes, one that could only be controlled by another human player. They need but only two rules.

1, don't be a dick. Don't kill other Ash walkers, same goes for Hotel Staff killing Hotel Staff, it's just being an asshole for the sake of it.
2, stay on Lavaland. There's no reason to immediately run towards the outpost, get on a shuttle, troll the station and get dunked because you're valid.

An exception to rule 2 would be the tribe has grown large enough to actually support raiding the station for more food. IIRC Ash walkers spawn with some memory saying the station has brought new sacrifices to them, so this is fine, but an admin can tell if you're being a troll or you're actually trying to expand as a team.

Post by **Cobby** » Fri Sep 16, 2016 2:27 pm #211904

Can I be explained why a role meant to be a safety net for people who didn't powergame in their first life should be required to powergame in their second/third/fourth ..?

Slignerd · Post by **Slignerd** » Fri Sep 16, 2016 2:52 pm #211912

"muh tendril powergame"

It's not a choice between powergaming or not, it's a choice between "powergame" with renewable resources that greatly benefit the entire community in the long term, and shitty selfish 'powergame' in the form of stabbing everything stabbable with spears in order to get that sweet shiny loot for themselves, then probably fall into some random chasm with it.

I mean, I've pretty much withdrawn from trying to make it a policy thing, but it's still stupid. It's not about powergame, it's about ghost roles joining only to fuck things up for their team out of their personal self-interest. It's the same as golems ignoring a shared ID and just hoarding mining points for themselves. It's just shitty for players who put some actual effort into it.

Just add a hand labeler so that I can at least tell if they fuck it up out of ignorance or because they feel like being selfish fucks.

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:12 pm #212226

Sligneris wrote: Just add a hand labeler so that I can at least tell if they fuck it up out of ignorance or because they feel like being selfish fucks.

This seems reasonable and fair.

onleavedontatme · Sun Sep 18, 2016 3:46 pm

I keep meaning to add a special conch shell/hat/staff that lets one ash walker be the boss and set goals that new spawns will see/can yell out commands telepathically, or something along those lines.

TheColdTurtle · Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:21 pm

Kor you have been meaning to do a shit ton of stuff

onleavedontatme · Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:23 pm

I know, but I have not even played for like a month now I guess it's that time in the cycle again.

Post by **Shaps-cloud** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:56 pm #212280

sleepy kor...

please dont make any more posts in this thread and wake up kor while they nap