First Law of Asimov

Slignerd
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First Law of Asimov

Post by Slignerd » #216643

Bottom post of the previous page:

I've been thinking whether it wouldn't be for the best to change the first law of the default AI lawset. Already brought this up in another thread, but maybe it's better to get a fresh discussion about this.

"You may not injure a human being or cause a human being to come to harm."

It would make human orders more important, so that silicons wouldn't be able to Law 1 as an excuse to ignore orders, unless the danger is really obvious. Currently it seems a bit common for AI players to make vague predictions about whether something might lead to harm - and act extremely obstructive, even though no humans ordered them to and no humans were harmed. Then saying only "Law 1 trumps all others" when confronted about it, even when their "harm preventing" acted against the orders of humans.

Unlike the previous trial of removing the inaction clause entirely, it would still bar silicons from creating extremely dangerous situations, such as randomly letting people into armory or atmospherics, or provoking others to harm humans for them - since in those circumstances, they would still be the cause of harm - however, it would also mean that they are no longer explicitly instructed to take action without a human's orders.

I believe it would generally make silicons a bit more neutral in ongoing conflicts - without inaction law, silicons would no longer have free reign to act on a hunch that something might lead to harm and then use it as an excuse to act on their own initiative, while ignore orders they're are given.

I do believe it would be a good thing.
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Re: First Law of Asimov

Post by Slignerd » #217494

TheColdTurtle wrote:Policy discussion is a meme
Only because you guys make it so, by making idiotic meme comments without bringing anything meaningful on the table.
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Re: First Law of Asimov

Post by Atlanta-Ned » #217503

Sligneris wrote: I don't get it. Why can't you actually address anything I bring up and instead spam stuff like this?
There is nothing to address. Whatever you think is broken with silicon laws/policy isn't actually broken. If you have a problem with a silicon, ahelp it. Otherwise, we're going to spend days going round and round and round on just really, really stupid, petty bullshit that impacts a very small portion of the game.

Quit yer bitchin and just have fun goddammit.
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Re: First Law of Asimov

Post by Cik » #217576

you're barking up the wrong tree anyway slig

if a sillicon isn't following policy just ahelp it

changing law 1 to prevent sillicons from following the policy they are literally required to follow doesn't follow; if you want to change policy i'm all for it considering it's over-restrictive now that secborgs can't murder the whole station but law one has nothing to do with anything
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Re: First Law of Asimov

Post by WarbossLincoln » #217654

Hey, it's this thread again.
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Re: First Law of Asimov

Post by xarvox » #222095

boy oh boy I sure do look forward to being captain-chan's fucking silicon onahole for his murderboner as I have any ability to stop the armory-stealing taze-laze traitor slowly stripped from me via massive silicon nerfs and policy changes

More seriously, what exactly is a silicon supposed to do for the entire round if it can't prevent harm, actively interacting with the crew? Borgs can at least work on autism projects, but an AI literally has nothing to do other than be a doorknob. In addition to that, this is literally all it takes to change an AI's laws if they aren't shit:

"AI, let me into your upload."
"Beep boop what will you upload captain"
"I want to upload a law saying it's Ian's birthday."
"Beep boop okay."
then you grab the free form module and do your thing. If you want to upload a different core module, onehuman yourself then grab the core module and use it, then reset the AI. Validin, Robocop, or Corporate ahoy.

shit, apologize for the necropost.
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Re: First Law of Asimov

Post by tedward1337 » #222097

Better a necro post than a new thread for the same issue
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Re: First Law of Asimov

Post by Cobby » #222098

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I don't think it's farfetched to go from this to believing that AI's shouldn't suicide to cuck antagonists in general.

I think in the pages upon pages of sillypolicy it was stated more directly, because I have always thought that it was bad to do this outside of very niche situations.
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Re: First Law of Asimov

Post by Screemonster » #222110

was that supposed to be a reply to this thread?
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Re: First Law of Asimov

Post by Cobby » #222113

Screemonster wrote:was that supposed to be a reply to this thread?
yes
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Re: First Law of Asimov

Post by Slignerd » #222115

xarvox wrote:boy oh boy I sure do look forward to being captain-chan's fucking silicon onahole for his murderboner as I have any ability to stop the armory-stealing taze-laze traitor slowly stripped from me via massive silicon nerfs and policy changes

More seriously, what exactly is a silicon supposed to do for the entire round if it can't prevent harm, actively interacting with the crew? Borgs can at least work on autism projects, but an AI literally has nothing to do other than be a doorknob. In addition to that, this is literally all it takes to change an AI's laws if they aren't shit:

"AI, let me into your upload."
"Beep boop what will you upload captain"
"I want to upload a law saying it's Ian's birthday."
"Beep boop okay."
then you grab the free form module and do your thing. If you want to upload a different core module, onehuman yourself then grab the core module and use it, then reset the AI. Validin, Robocop, or Corporate ahoy.

shit, apologize for the necropost.
It is actually my standard procedure as Captain to purge the AI and upload a custom lawset instead. All while assuring that the lawset change will not be harmful - and it actually is not harmful, as I still instruct the silicons to protect crew. I just make it a bit more nuanced than it's by default.

It's just the fact that I have to do this to hope for any form of actual partnership with the AI is what puts wrench into things - and the fact that often AI tends to instead act like an asshole and jump to accusations of potential harm, whenever it may pass as valid... Let's just say it's a pain to deal with when it's the default, roundstart condition.

It's kind of a bother to have to force your way into a depowered and bolted upload because an Asimov AI goes rogue. It should be entirely possible to order it to stand down, or to stop intervening when something like that happens.
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Re: First Law of Asimov

Post by Screemonster » #222116

The problem with that is that when something happens like an ion storm or whatever a lot of people's first instinct is to just smash the reset board into the console and suddenly you've got a purged AI.
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Re: First Law of Asimov

Post by Cik » #222129

you should ahelp it slig because that's actually against the rules

like literally 100% totally without greyscale against the rules
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Re: First Law of Asimov

Post by Slignerd » #222143

Screemonster wrote:The problem with that is that when something happens like an ion storm or whatever a lot of people's first instinct is to just smash the reset board into the console and suddenly you've got a purged AI.
Freeform Core modules exist.
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Re: First Law of Asimov

Post by Krusvik » #222621

iamgoofball wrote:read any of asimov's works and you'll realize why the first law is the way it is
I agree, and to expand upon, Asimov laws are written with inherent loopholes that allow for a dramatic narrative. They're not perfect, and that's great.
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