AI suiciding to prevent subversion.

User avatar
Lumbermancer
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:40 am
Byond Username: Lumbermancer

AI suiciding to prevent subversion.

Post by Lumbermancer » #221763

Bottom post of the previous page:

I just did it. I done it before. I actually said many times I take pride in sacrificing myself as an AI to prevent future and inevitable human harm in any way. I will admit to making a mistake and ghosting instead verbing out (I thought you can't do that) but none the less, lets talk about the act itself.

I was told it's not against the rules. But I was also told it's shit. I'm shit. I'm shit because as AI I didn't allow antag to subvert me (or denied his objective). Law 1 is pretty clear "or through inaction allow human to come to harm". If you know, 100%, you are about to get subverted by harmful element, I would think it's your duty to not allow it by terminating yourself.

And by 100% I'm talking 5 clock cultists, wearing cultists armor, wielding cultists staves, trying to break into my core for 5 minutes as I try to impede their progress and stall for shuttle to leave, using turrets and foam. There was nothing ambiguous about this situation. It's not "a person that's not captain in upload" as Anonus told me. And of course, for the record, I offed myself BEFORE they attempted to convert me using their pocketwatches.

Other similar situation I recall was a band Revs breaking into upload, wrecking turrets, hacking APC to turn on the consoles I disabled to trying to stop them. And then and only then, as a last resort solution, I suicided.

This is not me going lmao dude fuck you. It's me trying very hard to stop them from subverting using all the means I have at my disposal, and when all my solution have been exhausted I do myself.

AI wields tremendous power. There's a reason Silicon Policy includes a clause that ONLY RD and Captain are allowed into upload.

And while Silicon Policy doesn't talk about AI sucide, it includes this specific point:

Ordering silicons to harm or terminate themselves or each other without cause is a violation of Server Rule 1

This means that self-termination is pretty much a thing, if you have a cause. But if I remove the "ordering" element, and do it myself with a valid cause, do I violate Rule 1?

What's your opinion? I'm not here to fight, only to listen, and maybe adjust my playstyle if need be.
aka Schlomo Gaskin aka Guru Meditation aka Copyright Alright aka Topkek McHonk aka Le Rouge
Image
Slettal
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:45 pm
Byond Username: Slettal

Re: AI suiciding to prevent subversion.

Post by Slettal » #222675

Atlanta-Ned wrote:
Not-Dorsidarf wrote:Also the "dont fuck over tator tots by killing urself" specifically refers to how there was an epidemic of AIs who would suicide when carded by a traitor, but wait until the shuttle/pods had launched so the traitor was Shit Outta Luck
Violation of law 3: Once you're carded, you have zero access to the station's network and therefore can't be used to harm humans, nullifying a law 1 override for law 3.
And forcing the player to sit out the round without anything to do whatsoever. Which is pretty shitty in itself, but I guess that's why ghosting exists? It is identical to walling someone in.
Ivan Issaccs
In-Game Admin
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:39 am
Byond Username: Ivanissaccs

Re: AI suiciding to prevent subversion.

Post by Ivan Issaccs » #222734

Slettal wrote:
Atlanta-Ned wrote:
Not-Dorsidarf wrote:Also the "dont fuck over tator tots by killing urself" specifically refers to how there was an epidemic of AIs who would suicide when carded by a traitor, but wait until the shuttle/pods had launched so the traitor was Shit Outta Luck
Violation of law 3: Once you're carded, you have zero access to the station's network and therefore can't be used to harm humans, nullifying a law 1 override for law 3.
And forcing the player to sit out the round without anything to do whatsoever. Which is pretty shitty in itself, but I guess that's why ghosting exists? It is identical to walling someone in.
I seem to recall back in the day spacing carded AI's was a ban because they had suicide removed to preventing antags dicking them over, this was before ghosting was an option though.
User avatar
Cobby
Code Maintainer
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:19 pm
Byond Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobby
Github Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobblestone

Re: AI suiciding to prevent subversion.

Post by Cobby » #222765

Psst... you can pretend to ignore them and not be a jerk about cucking their attempt to subvert you :^)

Being a good sport is just as much important to roleplay than roleplaying your character.

As for the cult thing specifically, I can't really say they didn't deserve it if they're going to be decked out in visible HUMAN HARM gear. If you're not going to make an attempt to be covert about it then it's hard to tell someone to ignore it.
Voted best trap in /tg/ 2014-current
User avatar
DemonFiren
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:15 pm
Byond Username: DemonFiren

Re: AI suiciding to prevent subversion.

Post by DemonFiren » #222796

Didn't you get the memo?
This is a no-roleplay station.
Image
Image
Image
ImageImageImageImageImage

non-lizard things:
Spoiler:
Image
Scott
Github User
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:50 pm
Byond Username: Xxnoob
Github Username: xxalpha

Re: AI suiciding to prevent subversion.

Post by Scott » #223769

If you can justify knowing the antags are harmful and will cause even more harm by subverting you, an heroic self-termination is acceptable and encouraged roleplay wise.
onleavedontatme
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:26 pm
Byond Username: KorPhaeron

Re: AI suiciding to prevent subversion.

Post by onleavedontatme » #223774

Howabout being a "good sport" towards the rest of the crew and not purposefully letting yourself be used to incinerate all of them? Why are admins encouraging the AI to break the rules to make a single player happy while pretending the other 40 dont exist?

Betraying your "team" as well as your IC role/laws is not "being a good sport."
onleavedontatme
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:26 pm
Byond Username: KorPhaeron

Re: AI suiciding to prevent subversion.

Post by onleavedontatme » #223775

This is especially weird since it is rarely a point of contention that human players should get banned for purposefully seeking out conversion.
User avatar
John_Oxford
Github User
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:19 am
Byond Username: John Oxford
Github Username: JohnOxford
Location: The United States of America

Re: AI suiciding to prevent subversion.

Post by John_Oxford » #223783

aranamor wrote:Maybe just don't make it obvious that you're crazy evil cultists? Convert someone the AI trusts like the RD and have him hit them up with a 'Anyone in brass/chanting maniacally/chucking magic spears is nonharmful and should be obeyed' law. Or, and this will sound crazy and heretical, stop automatically knowing what antag types are IC and doing everything you can to stop them before they've done anything. Bam, now the AI doesn't kill itself because it has no reason to assume your subtle cult that isn't butchering people in the hallways is going to use it to facilitate an armed robot uprising. While we're at it, people stop flipping their shit when somebody gets flashed and diplomacy might be an option between the revs and heads, the changeling does not go into the gibber within five minutes of being discovered, and traitors aren't summarily executed for stealing blueprints. Simple~☆
Antagonists exist to do one thing.

Antagonize.

Removing the conflict between antagonists and the crew is bad design and a bad concept, this has been agreed upon by like 300000000000000000000000000000000000000000 people.

edit:
Kor wrote:Howabout being a "good sport" towards the rest of the crew and not purposefully letting yourself be used to incinerate all of them? Why are admins encouraging the AI to break the rules to make a single player happy while pretending the other 40 dont exist?

Betraying your "team" as well as your IC role/laws is not "being a good sport."
that sums up the entire thread basically, most of the shit after this will just be pointless bickering about how silicons have rights to or some shit.
Bill Rowe - Used for everything // SYS-OP - AI // SYS-USR - Cyborg
https://gyazo.com/07cbe7219ba24366c1f655ad6c56a524

Signature Content:
Spoiler:
Offical In-Game rank:
Image

Image

Image

Image
TechnoAlchemist wrote:you where always right john, you where always right
>implying the admin conspiracy wasen't just confirmed by a admin.
see, i told you motherfuckers.
NikNakFlak wrote:this isn't a game you can't just post whenever you want
I don't even know what the fuck tg is.

Image

Image
User avatar
D&B
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:23 am
Byond Username: Repukan
Location: *teleports behind you*

Re: AI suiciding to prevent subversion.

Post by D&B » #223787

aranamor wrote:
Spoiler:
Maybe it's a chunk we can afford to alienate.
Kindly fuck off back to bay
Spoiler:
[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?
J_Madison wrote: that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you
ColonicAcid wrote:and with enough practise i too could blow my own dick so well that only the gods know how it feels.
User avatar
Wyzack
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:32 pm
Byond Username: Wyzack

Re: AI suiciding to prevent subversion.

Post by Wyzack » #223789

Says the guy who gets into a pissing match with admins over his borderline shitty behavior every other week
Arthur Thomson says, "Since there are no admins I would loging with another account and kill you"
Caleb Robinson laughs.
Arthur Thomson catches fire!
tusterman11 wrote:Can you stop lying? I just asked you and you are was a piece of shiit on me!!!
Kor wrote:I wish Wyzack was still an admin.
EngamerAzari's real number one fangirl <3
certified good poster
User avatar
firecage
Github User
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:22 pm
Byond Username: Firecage
Github Username: Firecage

Re: AI suiciding to prevent subversion.

Post by firecage » #223920

An AI suiciding before being subverted, thus giving up the chance of becoming a literal murder machine with the capability of wiping out all life on the station and thus giving up their valids? I see nothing wrong with this. AI's should actually get banned if they don't suicide before being subverted and instead lets it happen.
User avatar
Sweaterkittens
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:02 am
Byond Username: SweaterKittens

Re: AI suiciding to prevent subversion.

Post by Sweaterkittens » #235566

It looks like it's been beat to death, but I'll chime in as an avid Silicon player just to agree with Lumbermancer's decisions. In fact, I think it was really well done that he chose to follow his laws to letter and off himself instead of allowing himself to quite obviously be converted.

While it's clearly a gray area, there are times like that when it's 100% clear that you're about to made into a murder machine. There are also times where there's no way you could know if you're about to be subverted without heavy metagaming, or you're already subverted, in which case you're just being a dick.
ImageImage
Spoiler:
Image
Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users