Security and antagonizing crew members

[DrPillzRedux]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Why is it okay for security to detain crew members, take their stuff, and then release them without giving that stuff back? Then, when someone tries to get their stuff back (like a fucking violin not a gun), that sec officer can toss that person in the gulag or perma? It's the equivalent of theft and banbaiting, but since they're sec it's okay. Baiting people into retaliating and then removing from the game is shit.

This has always been a problem with sec. They get a free pass to take anything from you and it's ruled an IC issue, when sec shouldn't be stealing in the first place.

[J_Madison]

Sec is understaffed due to lack of content, exhausting job and generally mopping over others.

If you die big whoop, someone gets access to a department.

If I die I give away the brig and all of my belongings.


I don't have time to deal with small petty incidents and be expected to treat you specially and differently.
If you break into somewhere I'm taking your tools.
If you do nothing but get in the way of arrests with an annoying instrument I'm taking that instrument.
If you try to attack me I will throw your ass into the gulag for 600 points.

Security reacts. If they instigate that's against the rules. Every action has a reaction.

You have dozens of jobs and hundreds of gimmicks. What gimmick you think is appropriate will be met with an equally appropriate reaction.

If the game to you revolves around a pixel instrument, then you're likely not going contribute anything and in the kingdom of convertion antags, the useless non-contributing players are king.



Here's a hint: play your job or don't play at all. If you act like a waste of slot I'll treat you as one.

[Duncdar]

I was going to avoid posting, but I feel that I should clarify my exact words to Daturix were "Sorry for taking a while to get back to you, but thanks for clarifying that. In the future, however, it may just be best to send them on their way after a regular brig sentence, considering it was the result of two attacks with a guitar." While I know that can be read as "to just ignore your ass next time," I tend to be a lot more polite and optimistic.
After this, they were given a note containing information about the incident, primarily as a reference should a similar situation occur again.

[DrPillzRedux]

I like how you're still lying. You ran out of the brig and made me chase you after I got released. You SAW me chasing you. I smack you with a guitar two times and you perma me without word. The real kicker is "I totally can't find this person right behind me chasing me so I space what he's chasing me for'.

You're a full of shit underage b& dodging a sec ban. If I was your dad I'd yell at your ass too. After observing you since, you continuously do nothing but validhunt or wordlessly go around doing stuff. Complete garbage.

Also jmad you're still a complete fucking idiot as ever. I had not done anything in the round that was criminal. I had not hit anything, stolen anything, nothing. All I did was test songs as an assistant.

But really, you're overextending your thoughts as usual. You really need to just shut the fuck up and seek help instead of spending money on a retard simulator to try and push your shitty agenda.

[Steelpoint]

"I'm going to call people retards and idiots, this will win over people's support for me"

[CPTANT]

That sure is a lot of rage and butthurt about losing a virtual violin.....

[J_Madison]

Is it relavent someone is under age or lives with their parents that you attack them with it publicly?


The fact is he was doing his job looking for a cult.
You were set to wanted. I'd complain about whoever set you to this.
And a sec officer was doing his job.
Instead of staying calm and compliant you threaten bloody murder and attack him later.

Even for serious crimes, as long as you are calm and compliant I doubt anyone will treat you badly.

You're complaining about sec treating you badly because you screamed, shouted, and was abusive and uncomplaint.

[CPTANT]

Wait a minute.....

I knew it! This was a ban request all along!

[WarbossLincoln]

After observing you since

SpaceStalker 13

In all this time you've spent dumping salt here you could have done something productive. Like get drunk, watch a movie, etc.

[Cobby]

> claiming someone needs to seek help because they donate to the "retard simulator" you also play on
> Resorts to such low-par adhom because someone stole their space instrument 3 days ago on said retard simulator

seek help

[Saegrimr]

Wait a minute.....

I knew it! This was a ban request all along!

DAMN, FOILED AGAIN.

[DrPillzRedux]

After observing you since

SpaceStalker 13

>watching someone after dying sometimes
>seeing them in game
>stalking
>all these quality admin replies triggered over retard

A lot of you need to aquiesce assistance.

Also jmad yeah, typically after you stop to let a sec officer detain you and they wordlessly stun you, you get triggered. That's something a rarely plays wouldn't know though.

[J_Madison]

Grow a thicker skin or Ahelp it then instead of making blind threats.
Treat others like you'd treat yourself instead of being a self righteous sperg.

Present an argument to counter my argument instead of spouting rarely plays ad-homs that aren't true.

[Screemonster]

A lot of you need to aquiesce assistance.

the word is acquire you mong acquiesce means to concede

[Alipheese]

I like how you're still lying. You ran out of the brig and made me chase you after I got released. You SAW me chasing you. I smack you with a guitar two times and you perma me without word. The real kicker is "I totally can't find this person right behind me chasing me so I space what he's chasing me for'.

You're a full of shit underage b& dodging a sec ban. If I was your dad I'd yell at your ass too. After observing you since, you continuously do nothing but validhunt or wordlessly go around doing stuff. Complete garbage.

Also jmad you're still a complete fucking idiot as ever. I had not done anything in the round that was criminal. I had not hit anything, stolen anything, nothing. All I did was test songs as an assistant.

But really, you're overextending your thoughts as usual. You really need to just shut the fuck up and seek help instead of spending money on a retard simulator to try and push your shitty agenda.

Thread should probably get locked or moved to FNR as no real discussion is happening besides shit talking.

Response.

Spoiler:

But let me clarify. I did yell over coms to something along the lines. "I just spaced your stupid fucking violin" when I spaced it. Now why would I do that if you were right there?

I am 20 and ill be 21 in less than 4 weeks. I'm not some under teen b&, if you want me to eat a sec ban ill gladly take it, I have no issue taking punishment when it's actually due. This case it isnt. Thats what all my notes say. If you refer to me validhunting you watched one of the later rounds where it was raging mages, or the DA round where I outed target in hopes sec would actually do something.

Here's the real kicker, if you have watched me since, then why are 99% of my rounds virologist, sitting there making my virus over and over and supplying it to the crew then just chilling about and doing what I please. Validhunting?

If you wish I will record every round I play for your exact pleasure to see my valid hunting and my intentions as i do speak to the game as shit happens.

[Atlanta-Ned]

tbh everyone in this thread is acting like they're 12.

[Alipheese]

tbh everyone in this thread is acting like they're 12.

Didn't you just put yourself in the thread?

[D&B]

THE SHED BECKONS

[Lumbermancer]

Few more thoughts I had on why sec is """"shit"""" to play.

It's the only department that really needs 2 specific people in the roster. Warden, to help process prisoners and guard brig, and Hos to (try) to lead and assume the position of authority both within and outside the security. Without them you gonna have a hard time and not much fun. Every other department can go without Head of Staff just fine.

If chain of command is broken above you, at HoP or Captain level, you gonna have a bad time. Everyone else can just ignore it, or get that sweet all access to tide.

If there's a dissent or split within your ranks, you gonna have a bad time. You really need teamwork and implicit trust.

Most of the people think Sally will look for her marble in the box.

[ThanatosRa]

I admit that one thing that would antagonize the crew, but be funny to see, is stuff like Security taking the hands of Tiders who steal etc.

[Atlanta-Ned]

I admit that one thing that would antagonize the crew, but be funny to see, is stuff like Security taking the hands of Tiders who steal etc.

I've seen this. All it does is make people think sec is valid.

[Cobby]

THE SHED BECKONS

[Scott]

I too had my instruments spaced by sec officers in the past, they always get away with it.

If you want privileges to team deathmatch antags, you can't do regular crew stuff like fighting someone for/because of an instrument. If the crew cannot reasonably fight back, you get these threads.

[Falamazeer]

Security sucks to play because the default assumption for why you do anything is because you're a valid hunting salt seeking piece of shit who cannot possibly be motivated by anything more than the most basic of primitive animal insticts to hold down the smallest monkey and fart on him.

Go play sec your own way pills, if you ever leave the bar, or the comfort of your established name/character conflict will happen and you'll feel compelled to defend yourself to some snivvling snot nosed autist who can't understand why you took his murder weapon away and then spaced him.

But yeah, rules are where they are supposed to be, dunno where kor gets 'years' from, but hey, it's here now, and has been for a while at least, policy finally gave us breathing room, but it still doesn't make the crew any more tolerant, or the community less fun to interact with as security.

[Reece]

I admit that one thing that would antagonize the crew, but be funny to see, is stuff like Security taking the hands of Tiders who steal etc.

I've seen this. All it does is make people think sec is valid.

If I catch an antag really early on I give them the choice of perma or losing a hand.

[BeeSting12]

its amazing how we can have serious conversations over a person's VIRTUAL violin being stolen
edit: wow the conversation was so serious that i forgot it was virtual

[CPTANT]

its amazing how we can have serious conversations over a person's violin being stolen

Ahum, VIRTUAL violin.

[Falamazeer]

This is how every thread with security in the title will go, from now until the end of time.

[Davidchan]

Security regulars unable to handle that nobody likes their role and they have antag privileges as non-antag crew? Yeah sounds about right.

[Slettal]

Security regulars unable to handle that nobody likes their role and they have antag privileges as non-antag crew? Yeah sounds about right.

Don't be a shitter and you won't have a problem with sec. I can't count how many times I've been mistakingly arrested and released again. Even had a sec officer jump into space to get my hard suit back for me (got accidently spaced)

[Davidchan]

Don't be a shitter

Good advice for sec, not being shit to the crew and treating everyone who doesn't spawn with an implant as antag. Sec is the only group of players allowed to escalate a verbal altercation to a physical or even lethal one without risk of getting banned for needlessly escalating conflicts.

[CPTANT]

Don't be a shitter

Good advice for sec, not being shit to the crew and treating everyone who doesn't spawn with an implant as antag. Sec is the only group of players allowed to escalate a verbal altercation to a physical or even lethal one without risk of getting banned for needlessly escalating conflicts.

I dindu nuffin!

Also it's bullshit, if someone invades your workspace repeatedly or literally says they are going to kill you then every crew member dunks you just fine, it's just that stun batons are more effective at it.

[Armhulen]

I feel like i was antagonizing the captain recently as hos, i mean two out of the three captains i basically mutinied, and while both of them wanted to de-tail (eugh), gulag (euuugh), or deport (eeeeeeeeuuugh) all lizards, only one was valid. Snake Plisskin was my battle brother against the clockwork war so i regret basically killing him

[TheColdTurtle]

>starting a mutiny against someone who did the right thing
What?

[Scott]

Security sucks to play because the default assumption for why you do anything is because you're a valid hunting salt seeking piece of shit who cannot possibly be motivated by anything more than the most basic of primitive animal insticts to hold down the smallest monkey and fart on him.

Go play sec your own way pills, if you ever leave the bar, or the comfort of your established name/character conflict will happen and you'll feel compelled to defend yourself to some snivvling snot nosed autist who can't understand why you took his murder weapon away and then spaced him.

But yeah, rules are where they are supposed to be, dunno where kor gets 'years' from, but hey, it's here now, and has been for a while at least, policy finally gave us breathing room, but it still doesn't make the crew any more tolerant, or the community less fun to interact with as security.

Playing the instruments is now actively attacking security.

[Cobby]

Security sucks to play because the default assumption for why you do anything is because you're a valid hunting salt seeking piece of shit who cannot possibly be motivated by anything more than the most basic of primitive animal insticts to hold down the smallest monkey and fart on him.

Go play sec your own way pills, if you ever leave the bar, or the comfort of your established name/character conflict will happen and you'll feel compelled to defend yourself to some snivvling snot nosed autist who can't understand why you took his murder weapon away and then spaced him.

But yeah, rules are where they are supposed to be, dunno where kor gets 'years' from, but hey, it's here now, and has been for a while at least, policy finally gave us breathing room, but it still doesn't make the crew any more tolerant, or the community less fun to interact with as security.

Playing the instruments is now actively attacking security.

If it's the electric guitar it is, that thing is ANNOYING.

[Alipheese]

Security sucks to play because the default assumption for why you do anything is because you're a valid hunting salt seeking piece of shit who cannot possibly be motivated by anything more than the most basic of primitive animal insticts to hold down the smallest monkey and fart on him.

Go play sec your own way pills, if you ever leave the bar, or the comfort of your established name/character conflict will happen and you'll feel compelled to defend yourself to some snivvling snot nosed autist who can't understand why you took his murder weapon away and then spaced him.

But yeah, rules are where they are supposed to be, dunno where kor gets 'years' from, but hey, it's here now, and has been for a while at least, policy finally gave us breathing room, but it still doesn't make the crew any more tolerant, or the community less fun to interact with as security.

Playing the instruments is now actively attacking security.

If it's the electric guitar it is, that thing is ANNOYING.

Ghostbusters theme intensifies

[Armhulen]

>starting a mutiny against someone who did the right thing
What?

>half of my security composed of lizards, CMO says de-tailing is unethical
>he didn't see this coming
What?

[Jembo]

In my last few days of playing, the following has happened. I've had to serve two sentences for the same crime. Stole five bars of gold to make a crown. Spend two minutes in the brig and was forgotten about while bucklecuffed to a bed. Another sec officer shows up and sees I'm trying to break free from my cuffs in my cell after my timer ran out, and proceeds to brig me for four more minutes for trying to escape.

I as the CMO was actively prevented from cloning the captain by a sec officer and the warden. As because despite being able to change the powercell in genetics to get it up and running they didn't believe they could be cloned.

Was arrested by a HoS for interfering in an arrest in my own office because I was trying to contain the person attacking me with a tool box and accidentally hit them once.

Was shot into red health by a detective for hitting them with a red fish plush.

And that's just recent events. We have a lot of new players we need to be harder on those playing sec just to be dicks to other players.

[CPTANT]

In my last few days of playing, the following has happened. I've had to serve two sentences for the same crime. Stole five bars of gold to make a crown. Spend two minutes in the brig and was forgotten about while bucklecuffed to a bed. Another sec officer shows up and sees I'm trying to break free from my cuffs in my cell after my timer ran out, and proceeds to brig me for four more minutes for trying to escape.

I as the CMO was actively prevented from cloning the captain by a sec officer and the warden. As because despite being able to change the powercell in genetics to get it up and running they didn't believe they could be cloned.

Was arrested by a HoS for interfering in an arrest in my own office because I was trying to contain the person attacking me with a tool box and accidentally hit them once.

Was shot into red health by a detective for hitting them with a red fish plush.

And that's just recent events. We have a lot of new players we need to be harder on those playing sec just to be dicks to other players.

You want admin intervention for THAT? Seriously, grow a spine.

[Jembo]

You want admin intervention for THAT? Seriously, grow a spine.

If I wanted admin intervention, I would of admin helped ;3 I didn't. I'm merely stating we have a growing number of horrible sec players, and it's only going to get worse until people take steps to correct it. I feel like they're mostly new players, and you also see them grab up the head roles as well. It's a problem when we have new players in these roles because they make the game more difficult for everyone involved.

[Screemonster]

You want admin intervention for THAT? Seriously, grow a spine.

If I wanted admin intervention, I would of admin helped ;3 I didn't. I'm merely stating we have a growing number of horrible sec players, and it's only going to get worse until people take steps to correct it. I feel like they're mostly new players, and you also see them grab up the head roles as well. It's a problem when we have new players in these roles because they make the game more difficult for everyone involved.

if you didn't adminhelp it then don't bitch about it it in policy discussion about the admins not fixing a problem that you never told them about.

[Supermichael777]

It is a bit of a problem, but people get insensitive to it due to shitheads whining to get their hacking tools back after the hacking arrest.

[Reece]

This entire thread is a virtual BLM bitchfest.
"B-but officah, i did nuffin wrong. This phat lewt was planted on me by the same lunatic who dragged me into thecaps office through the hacked door"

[Cobby]

ITT shitsec gets talked to by admins when reported but let's complain about how they're allowed to "get away with stuff" anyways.

The Oxford Archives is calling

[Arianya]

Ignoring the pseudo-ban request nature of the thread and the about virtual violins, I do think sec (as someone who frequently is the Warden/HoS) has an issue, namely with organization.

A well run sec relies on the records being up to date and prisoners being released in a timely manner. The issue at present are:

* Any officer can drag a perp into the brig and set a timer, bypassing the authority of the Warden and leaving them unawares if busy with other shit
* Similarly, if the Warden/HoS die/are busy with other stuff, processing breaks down and leads either to "you're getting 10 minutes because I feel like it" or people being cuff dragged arond the brig for hours
* Wardens struggle to get info off officers because officers frequently run off to the next issue and are busy not getting toolboxed to answer the Warden's questions about Pryce Bax and why hes muzzled and cuffed.

There are a number of solutions to this, but one I'd suggest is converting some proportion of normal Sec Officer jobs to "Brig Guard" positions that act like the Cargo Techs do to the QM. Take away brig cell/timer control from normal Sec and thus have a internal structure with the Guards taking prisoners off the Officer's hands but getting information, remove the single point of failure that is the Warden and clarify the hierarchy in the Security-land so we get less Sec Officers getting salty about the Warden acting like 2nd-in-Command (even when appropriate)

This is just a rough idea but I think it'd do a lot to help some of the more common complaints about sec, without defanging the department.

Obviously this is more of a coding/gameplay design solution then a rules solution, but I thought it bore mentioning.

[Falamazeer]

taking away officer brigging rights is a terribly stupid idea. Security has always had problems from the HoS/warden positions being occasionally filled with anti-sec assclowns who only choose the role to interfere in arrests and cut people loose for thin reasoning. and you want to make a whole job role for that type of player? Nah.

I had a warden who released people because there were no notes in their security record.
Very few people use that system, even fewer check them. It would be nice if they did, but they don't, so why write something nobody is going to read in all likelyhood? There is nothing more annoying than turncoat security. And giving a job slot to it is just feuling a playstyle that nobody but the lowest clown will benefit from is stupid.

[Wyzack]

As warden if i get someone dumped in my brig without explanation I will ask over the radio twice. If no one responds I usually let them go. I am not going to hold people prisoner for an inordinate amount of time because someone dumped them on me, it is a waste of everyone's time

[Screemonster]

I had a warden who released people because there were no notes in their security record.

git gud and use the records then instead of just expecting other players to be mindreaders in a game where communication between players is deliberately restricted so nobody has the full story

[Arianya]

taking away officer brigging rights is a terribly stupid idea. Security has always had problems from the HoS/warden positions being occasionally filled with anti-sec assclowns who only choose the role to interfere in arrests and cut people loose for thin reasoning. and you want to make a whole job role for that type of player? Nah.

Its your opinion and you're entilted to it, but I doubt there are very many if any people playing a security role just to be "anti-sec". More likely its that the Warden/HoSs tend to have a different perspective because they're not the ones getting toolboxed by Griff McHuge. Delineation of duties might actually help not end up with sec revenge-brigging (as rare as I personally think that is) since the officer is removed from decision flow on sentencing.

I had a warden who released people because there were no notes in their security record.
Very few people use that system, even fewer check them. It would be nice if they did, but they don't, so why write something nobody is going to read in all likelyhood? There is nothing more annoying than turncoat security. And giving a job slot to it is just feuling a playstyle that nobody but the lowest clown will benefit from is stupid.

Part of the issue is people not using that system. Without it, everyone is playing it by ear, the Warden gets frustrated with officers arresting people for no clear reason, the officers get frustrated with the Warden for letting people go/being lenient and theres no paper trail that would lead to people receiving a longer sentence or permabrigging for repeat offences.

And most likely this "playstyle" would benefit everyone from assistants to officers to admins, since it would be easier to pin down the actual, power abusing shitcurity and defend the entirely justified, good security.

[1g88a]

Why is it okay for security to detain crew members, take their stuff, and then release them without giving that stuff back? Then, when someone tries to get their stuff back (like a fucking violin not a gun), that sec officer can toss that person in the gulag or perma? It's the equivalent of theft and banbaiting, but since they're sec it's okay. Baiting people into retaliating and then removing from the game is shit.

This has always been a problem with sec. They get a free pass to take anything from you and it's ruled an IC issue, when sec shouldn't be stealing in the first place.

SS13 getting a bit too real.

But yeah it is a big issue, especially when they do shit like leave your backpack with your internals behind when the station is half blown up. As sec I generally make sure people can get their shit back. Its not that hard to just leave it all in the cell locker for them to take with them/only take the stuff that needs to be taken.