The Metafreind Problem.

Helios127 · Post by **Helios127** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:12 pm #17587

What problem?

Okay, seriously. The headmin poll thread is becoming filled with this, so I thought I would start a topic on it. But "What Problem" sums things up perfect for me.

Im dead serious. Where are all the metagangs who have these huge ERP orgys every night that I am not seeing? Are admins just disillusioned now?

probobly.

captain sawrge · Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:20 pm

The majority of the admins that have a serious issue with this have not adminned on Artyom for a long enough time to judge whether or not there's an actual issue.

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:03 pm #17601

There's no problem, just a boogeyman.

Stickymayhem · Post by **Stickymayhem** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:44 am #17720

Tales of the metagangs are told in adminbus around the banfire to frighten the trialmins into staying in their safe little Sybilizations at night.

Some say it's a conspiracy by the metagangs themselves to keep Artyomstan pure.

Others say terbs has a few alts stirring up shit.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:53 am #17722

>my face when the plebs don't know the true metafriending powergame strat

yea okay enjoy being killed and nobody checking crew monitoring console for you fag

Spacemanspark · Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:27 am

I regular Artyom, and I haven't seen any form of meta friending, no sir.

Spoiler:

More seriously, though, it's not a really big thing. The only outright metafriending is Johnathon Rigel and Kenzie Smith, and they have a Roleplay reason for it, at that point.

Mandurrrh · Post by **Mandurrrh** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:00 pm #17812

Spacemanspark wrote:I regular Artyom, and I haven't seen any form of meta friending, no sir.
Spoiler:
IT'S EVERYWHERE! DON'T LISTEN TO THEM, THEY JUST WANT YOU TO BELIEVE THAT! PANIC!
More seriously, though, it's not a really big thing. The only outright metafriending is Johnathon Rigel and Kenzie Smith, and they have a Roleplay reason for it, at that point.

But when I get John as my objective I cold blood murder him, one human the Ai, incinerate his body, and delete his medical records like a good syndie agent

Otherwise yes John and Kenzie are in IC love <3

Helios127 · Post by **Helios127** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:17 pm #17814

Mandurrrh wrote:
Spacemanspark wrote:I regular Artyom, and I haven't seen any form of meta friending, no sir.
Spoiler:
IT'S EVERYWHERE! DON'T LISTEN TO THEM, THEY JUST WANT YOU TO BELIEVE THAT! PANIC!
More seriously, though, it's not a really big thing. The only outright metafriending is Johnathon Rigel and Kenzie Smith, and they have a Roleplay reason for it, at that point.
But when I get John as my objective I cold blood murder him, one human the Ai, incinerate his body, and delete his medical records like a good syndie agent

Otherwise yes John and Kenzie are in IC love <3

So long as you arnt blindly helping out one anouther as antags I am ok with this.

Subtle · Post by **Subtle** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:03 pm #17833

Metafriend, in general, is the wrong word to use for what Anon was trying to start a riot over.

It's the general exclusionary attitude from Artyom regulars and "celebrities" except blown out of proportion. Like it or not there are several cliques and a number of instances over the months of the server's existence (same with Basil, same with Sybil) that indicate some form of preferential treatment is provided between those players. Forced random-naming is the heavy handed solution suggested by people who hate seeing any sort of that behavior.

Nobody is insisting that it's a problem endemic to Artyom as literally every server has a group(s) of these people, but at the same time I can't help but find the idea that "Artyom is a different world! We can't hold the same administrative standards here, Sybil-admins go home!" absolutely hilarious and almost proof of the point. Sorry, rules are rules until NTstation stops being part of /tg/station. No matter at all how much some people want insane double-standards because more roleplay-oriented people tend to play on the second server.

This isn't an undercover operation and the idea that some admins have secret insider info only leads me to ask...
"Well, why the hell are you playing 007 instead of telling us about it?"

Helios127 · Post by **Helios127** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:29 pm #17863

Ah, Its clear to me now what a plauge this problem is. With this said, I dont think forcing random names is punishment enough!

I instead propose that all crewmembers are changed to "Joe Boring". Furthermore, any display of personality results in a coderban where your name is blacklisted in the code.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 2:00 am #17896

Admins need to enforce the rules the same on artyom. Players that say 'sybil admins go hommu' is usually a joke because it's typically directed at admins not held in very high regard that are usually on sybil, not sybil admins in general.

But the exact same shit happens on sybil, some players being mini celebs in a way and just general oldfags being treated differently. Artyom just has a larger base of loyal players that don't random name, or at least it's not drowned by the sheer higher numbers on sybil.

Enforce the rules the same. It'll weed out this notion that artyom is somehow administrated differently or the players are different.

The goal of artyom is to only really have a different codebase and map. I don't think the community is trying to pander to a specific 'playstyle', it's largely the same shit. It's easier to grey tide because of the stun times and move speed though, but I don't think that should enter into the administrating at all.

Some people might get sort of buttmad because a well-known player is banned but if someone breaks the rules they need to be punished or told to stop or it gets out of hand, as has been observed.

Helios127 · Post by **Helios127** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 2:47 am #17902

paprika wrote:Admins need to enforce the rules the same on artyom. Players that say 'sybil admins go hommu' is usually a joke because it's typically directed at admins not held in very high regard that are usually on sybil, not sybil admins in general.

But the exact same shit happens on sybil, some players being mini celebs in a way and just general oldfags being treated differently. Artyom just has a larger base of loyal players that don't random name, or at least it's not drowned by the sheer higher numbers on sybil.

Enforce the rules the same. It'll weed out this notion that artyom is somehow administrated differently or the players are different.

The goal of artyom is to only really have a different codebase and map. I don't think the community is trying to pander to a specific 'playstyle', it's largely the same shit. It's easier to grey tide because of the stun times and move speed though, but I don't think that should enter into the administrating at all.

Some people might get sort of buttmad because a well-known player is banned but if someone breaks the rules they need to be punished or told to stop or it gets out of hand, as has been observed.

They cant get mad. No steno!

In all seriousness there really shouldent be a problem with a ban unless the ban is bad.

Post by **MisterPerson** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:38 am #17911

I know this is off topic but it's really bothering me: You spelled friend wrong, my friend.

I think I'll play on Artyom at some point and form an opinion. Until then I can't comment on what it needs. Not "won't", not "can't form a good opinion", I physically cannot form one without going there. I hope everyone else, especially admins who also haven't played there, don't try to do something without knowing what the problem (if any) actually is.

Lovecraft · Post by **Lovecraft** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:08 am #17919

As a long time Artyom-er, though I haven't been playing SS13 lately, the problem isn't nearly large as people claim it to be, and depending on the group the "friends" know when to not stand up for their comrade.

Like, hypothetical.
I burst into science, grab Kenzie, rattle off how we have enough evidence to lock her away, and cuff her, I suspect Johnathan wouldn't try anything.

I burst into the maint. tunnels, grab one of the two or three (bad) "ERP-ers", rattle off how we have enough evidence to locker her away, they would fight and drag and birch and moan and I'd end up bearing all 3 into crit out of frustration.
Side note: I've come to terms and admit I have a temper when it comes to this stuff and will still hold no mercy praise Allah

So yeah, it all depends on who and what. Most groups are just regular players with their friends, totally harmless.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:40 am #17957

And then rigel's an antag.

Spoiler:

Mandurrrh · Post by **Mandurrrh** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:03 pm #17963

paprika wrote:And then rigel's an antag.

Spoiler:
*Unsheathes advanced e-gun*

I'm not really getting the implication. Plus we never use guns.

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:55 pm #18004

the implication is probably that if hes an antag he has free reign to kill august, even if for metafriending reasons
if hes not an antag he probably wont take much action personally because that would be shitty behavior

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:21 pm #18015

Rigel has an advanced e-gun on him as RD like every time he's antag what are you smoking kenzie

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:56 pm #18021

>People calling IC relationships between characters 'metafriending'

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:19 pm #18025

You can't not admit that there's a line that shouldn't be crossed with it. Would breaking your qt spess gf out of permabrig because she pda'd you and said she 'did nothing wrong' an IC relationship or you being a massive shitter?

Sec shouldn't have to worry about shit like that. When ic roleplay relationships rear their head in the actual gameplay it's crossing a line and it ruins the game. It's happened before, many times, so it's not like this hatred is unwarranted, Cipher.

Mandurrrh · Post by **Mandurrrh** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:24 pm #18027

paprika wrote:You can't not admit that there's a line that shouldn't be crossed with it. Would breaking your qt spess gf out of permabrig because she pda'd you and said she 'did nothing wrong' an IC relationship or you being a massive shitter?

Sec shouldn't have to worry about shit like that. When ic roleplay relationships rear their head in the actual gameplay it's crossing a line and it ruins the game. It's happened before, many times, so it's not like this hatred is unwarranted, Cipher.

Who gets to keep their PDA in perma?

Lets just get it all out there right now.

We all know the metaclique that runs shit is saiga and the parrots.

Lovecraft · Post by **Lovecraft** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:59 pm #18035

I'm glad someone brought it up.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:00 pm #18045

I can confirm Saiga's bird cult has rescued me from perma completely unwarranted simply because I am a fan of avians. It's starting to become a serious problem, I can't take one foot out of viro without hearing squawking and stepping on feathers.

Mandurrrh · Post by **Mandurrrh** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:36 pm #18056

paprika wrote:I can confirm Saiga's bird cult has rescued me from perma completely unwarranted simply because I am a fan of avians. It's starting to become a serious problem, I can't take one foot out of viro without hearing squawking and stepping on feathers.

I once saw a Narsie sized parrot she summoned. It was terrifying. Plus that bitch poly is always mocking us on comms.

And of course the egg laying....

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:32 am #18063

paprika wrote:You can't not admit that there's a line that shouldn't be crossed with it. Would breaking your qt spess gf out of permabrig because she pda'd you and said she 'did nothing wrong' an IC relationship or you being a massive shitter?

Sec shouldn't have to worry about shit like that. When ic roleplay relationships rear their head in the actual gameplay it's crossing a line and it ruins the game. It's happened before, many times, so it's not like this hatred is unwarranted, Cipher.

The line with IC Friendships and metafriendships is exactly the same line as powergaming, robustness, gud-gitting, munchkinning, whatever you want to call it.

When it becomes obtrusive, obnoxious, or generally disruptive, stop immediately.
When you're going out of your way, you ought to have a good reason.
When you're interfering with other players, especially if it's preventing them from doing their jobs, you should really have a good reason.
If people can single you out, by name, and say "You are a problem, here's why", stop immediately.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:31 am #18110

Mandurrrh wrote:Who gets to keep their PDA in perma?

Just about anyone? Why would you NOT let them keep PDA so then they PDA their metafriends and other traitors and you can perma those as well?

Mandurrrh · Post by **Mandurrrh** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:21 am #18111

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:
Mandurrrh wrote:Who gets to keep their PDA in perma?
Just about anyone? Why would you NOT let them keep PDA so then they PDA their metafriends and other traitors and you can perma those as well?

I never get my PDA or even an ID(for news feed). And the jack my headset too.

Jacough · Post by **Jacough** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:57 pm #18144

Maybe it's just because I generally stick to Sybil but I haven't really noticed much of a problem with metafriendships. I remember it being a big problem back when you had dick weeds like Sly running around with their butt buddies and lynching the shit out of anyone who dared touch their precious friend, usually regardless of the reason.

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:34 pm #18147

Mandurrrh wrote:
Lo6a4evskiy wrote:
Mandurrrh wrote:Who gets to keep their PDA in perma?
Just about anyone? Why would you NOT let them keep PDA so then they PDA their metafriends and other traitors and you can perma those as well?
I never get my PDA or even an ID(for news feed). And the jack my headset too.

Worst part is when they go even further and bucklecuff you or don't open the doors into the perma common area or something. Once had someone force feed me so that I would get fat.

Lovecraft · Post by **Lovecraft** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:08 pm #18153

If the person is civil during the perma treatment, they get a headset. Not departmental, just basic.
If they're being an annoying little cunt, no headset.
If they complain and say "STOP WHY DID YOU TAKE MY HEADSET I HAVE THE RIGHT" I give them a handheld radio I cut all the wires to.

Jacough · Post by **Jacough** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:03 pm #18161

Cipher3 wrote:
Mandurrrh wrote:
Lo6a4evskiy wrote:
Mandurrrh wrote:Who gets to keep their PDA in perma?
Just about anyone? Why would you NOT let them keep PDA so then they PDA their metafriends and other traitors and you can perma those as well?
I never get my PDA or even an ID(for news feed). And the jack my headset too.
Worst part is when they go even further and bucklecuff you or don't open the doors into the perma common area or something. Once had someone force feed me so that I would get fat.

If the fat code was still in I would totally do that to perma'd antags. You want to escape tubby tits? Better start running laps!

ExplosiveCrate · Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:03 pm

Running made fat people heat up, therefore it would be easier to escape through space if you were fat.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:56 am #18212

I force feed prisoners when they have healer/self respiration viruses, but that's pretty much it.

Kelenius · Post by **Kelenius** » Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:02 am #18215

The fat code IS still in.

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:55 pm #18537

nobody gets their pda in perma because if they did they could order traitor items and break out
seriously its that easy

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:18 am #18626

Okay well I used that example to say that if they contacted their metafriend and said that they were innocent even as a traitor in any way, be it PDA or radio or whatever, their metafriend could come and break them out and it's cancer.

Stop focusing so much on the PDA in perma thing that's not even what I implied god damn.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:32 am #18642

If I was a prisoner I would prefer to get buckle cuffed, that's one free pair of cuffs that I can (and have) put to good use.

On topic, everyone should be free to pursue a in character friend ship with other players, but you cross that line when you start willingly helping the other in preforming questionable actions, such as people trying to break into the brig to rescue people.

Sadly since that occurs so often you can't tell if its just grey tiders doing their thing or people trying to rescue their "friends" For what its worth I've had cases of people wordlessly helping someone seemingly out of no where.

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:37 am #18666

typically in game if im an officer and i catch them i give them the original sentence of the person they tried saving + whatever other crimes they committed and +2 fuck you minutes, because fuck you
if it looks especially bad ill adminhelp it but usually its just someone ive never met before throwing IEDs or the clown smashing at the window or something

420goslingboy69 · Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:56 am

People are given preferential treatment 95% of the time because of their personality. For example: Tokiko. Tokiko will usually be spared because they will take a very submissive/unintimidating stance on most events in the game, which people see round after round. People are human, see this, and build a relationship, even if it's one-sided. Because they view a character as X they do Y (X usually being positive and because they are positive, they feel less of a response to kill them or whatever.) It's a human response to a game that's built on human interaction. Metafriending, to an extent, should be expected and it's kinda warranted. We're people working on a space station. We will make friends and enemies from repeated shifts. Traitors aren't brainwashed (unless you like to play that game) and would be less prone to killing their friends. This dumbass crusade which has been around for years now is so trivial. Out of all the metagroups that have existed I can only think of one that has been directly toxic and they were admins.

Spoiler:

Miauw · Post by **Miauw** » Sun Jul 13, 2014 1:11 pm #19325

it's not that big of a problem but why are most people in this thread being massive fucking dicks, especially helios. this thread was apparently started just to fucking bash on the people that think it's a problem.

I don't my character is very well-known on Basil (Maybe I should use past tense but hey), and I like it that way. Imo the game is better without persistent IC relationships, and especially better without "famous" characters because of the cliques that tend to form around them. But there's not really much to do about that I guess. I just play borg and occasionally I do something gimmicky, and don't involve myself with the recurring characters too much.

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:46 pm #19399

420goslingboy69 wrote:People are given preferential treatment 95% of the time because of their personality. For example: Tokiko. Tokiko will usually be spared because they will take a very submissive/unintimidating stance on most events in the game, which people see round after round. People are human, see this, and build a relationship, even if it's one-sided. Because they view a character as X they do Y (X usually being positive and because they are positive, they feel less of a response to kill them or whatever.) It's a human response to a game that's built on human interaction. Metafriending, to an extent, should be expected and it's kinda warranted. We're people working on a space station. We will make friends and enemies from repeated shifts. Traitors aren't brainwashed (unless you like to play that game) and would be less prone to killing their friends. This dumbass crusade which has been around for years now is so trivial. Out of all the metagroups that have existed I can only think of one that has been directly toxic and they were admins.
Spoiler:
not including me

I never thought I'd agree so much to a Napkin post.

But metafriending referring to stuff like this is a stupid term because it's perfectly acceptable IC interaction. There's no meta involved, we remember each other from previous shifts.