Wish-granter ruin, does it grant antag status?

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christ110
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Wish-granter ruin, does it grant antag status?

Post by christ110 » #236535

a creative/lucky/robust player can wind up getting the wishgranter from the ruin which bears its name.
I did it twice, once using a phazon, again, using telescience.
however, each time, i ahelped the antag status because lavaland seem to be having issues about what grants antag and what doesnt.
the first time i ahelped, the admin said yes, the second time, the admin said no, because of what i chose. both times, i chose immortality, for that ling-style revive.
lesser ash drake, doesnt grant antag
morph syringe does
so, does wishgranter grant antag? its harder to get then the morph syringe.
I want the official admin ruling so if i get bwoinked in the future, i can point to this thread.
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Re: Wish-granter ruin, does it grant antag status?

Post by Armhulen » #236554

i swear you can grab one that give you antagonist objectives, but immortality shouldn't give you antagonist UNLESS it also gives objectives. I think. Maybe.
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christ110
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Re: Wish-granter ruin, does it grant antag status?

Post by christ110 » #236562

Armhulen wrote:UNLESS it also gives objectives. I think. Maybe.
morph syringe is just "lol eat everything" and since objectives are secondary to most antags, except nukies, if you want, we can give immortal ones objectives, but it wont really matter.
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Re: Wish-granter ruin, does it grant antag status?

Post by Sweaterkittens » #236563

I did a little testing on this, and it appears that only one of the wish granter options will grant you antag status. Just touching and interacting with it will not in itself give you antag status.
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Re: Wish-granter ruin, does it grant antag status?

Post by onleavedontatme » #236590

Only the murder wish grants antag
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Re: Wish-granter ruin, does it grant antag status?

Post by Okand37 » #236620

Yep! Only the wish 'to murder' will grant you antagonist status, as it'll turn you into a (TC-less?) traitor with the hijack objective. The other options don't turn you into an antagonist, but can still turn you into a shadowling race if unmistaken.
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Re: Wish-granter ruin, does it grant antag status?

Post by Armhulen » #236643

Okand37 wrote:Yep! Only the wish 'to murder' will grant you antagonist status, as it'll turn you into a (TC-less?) traitor with the hijack objective. The other options don't turn you into an antagonist, but can still turn you into a shadowling race if unmistaken.
all but peace turn you into a shadowperson, which is dumb considering peace does nothing.
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Re: Wish-granter ruin, does it grant antag status?

Post by TheNightingale » #236657

I think peace kills all the Faithless.
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Re: Wish-granter ruin, does it grant antag status?

Post by D&B » #236660

Peace kills the faithless, yeah.

The real issue here is telescience being able to cheese it.
Spoiler:
[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?
J_Madison wrote: that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you
ColonicAcid wrote:and with enough practise i too could blow my own dick so well that only the gods know how it feels.
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Re: Wish-granter ruin, does it grant antag status?

Post by cocothegogo » #236687

why do people think it's so bad that people get antag from lava land the amount of effort that goes into it should be something right?
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Re: Wish-granter ruin, does it grant antag status?

Post by D&B » #236694

Where's the effort on telescience though?

It's basically building three machines and using a third party program that's freely available.

The only "effort" is deconstructing the onstation if miners die and don't bring blue space crystals.
Spoiler:
[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?
J_Madison wrote: that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you
ColonicAcid wrote:and with enough practise i too could blow my own dick so well that only the gods know how it feels.
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Re: Wish-granter ruin, does it grant antag status?

Post by cocothegogo » #236704

since they removed telesci and made it so you need to build it I have seen it used a total of: 0 times
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Re: Wish-granter ruin, does it grant antag status?

Post by D&B » #236706

Did you read the OP?

Also before I got told to fuck off there was someone building telescience every round. Ay least in basil.
Spoiler:
[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?
J_Madison wrote: that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you
ColonicAcid wrote:and with enough practise i too could blow my own dick so well that only the gods know how it feels.
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Re: Wish-granter ruin, does it grant antag status?

Post by Quanti » #236729

I see telescience built often, I even helped someone tele to the wish granter yesterday. Might've been Christ. I'm not a big fan of the wish granter ruin in general but teleporting to the end of the ruin is probably a little too easy.
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Re: Wish-granter ruin, does it grant antag status?

Post by D&B » #236780

That's because telescience is flawed and broken in its current state.
Spoiler:
[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?
J_Madison wrote: that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you
ColonicAcid wrote:and with enough practise i too could blow my own dick so well that only the gods know how it feels.
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Re: Wish-granter ruin, does it grant antag status?

Post by Arianya » #236814

Wish granter is also flawed and broken in its current state.

"Fight 50+ NPC mobs to get loot generally much worse then other stuff in lavalands. And which makes you weak to light which pretty much guarantees that you'll hate being on the station"

People are cheesing it because the normal way of "doing" the ruin is so abhorrently boring and grinding that its not worth doing.
Frequently playing as Aria Bollet on Bagil & Scary Terry

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Re: Wish-granter ruin, does it grant antag status?

Post by D&B » #236828

Poor design /=/ Broken

The rewards available are pretty good for the effort, and you can turn yourself into a human again with xenobio, rendering the trade off from using the wish granter null.

It being boring or grindy does not take away the fact that telescience is broken or poorly implemented.
Spoiler:
[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?
J_Madison wrote: that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you
ColonicAcid wrote:and with enough practise i too could blow my own dick so well that only the gods know how it feels.
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Re: Wish-granter ruin, does it grant antag status?

Post by Arianya » #236829

You're going to have to specify how telescience is broken/poorly implemented, then, because other then the lack of shielding (which is a design issue, not a implementation issue), which I would argue is allowable considering you have to go out of your way to learn, build and make use of telescience, and even then its something that is at best a one way trip unless you have a buddy who you can trust manning the console.

Technically speaking, couldn't you do the same cheat with a hand tele locked on to nothing near the end room? More chancy, but same result with the bonus of being a solo-able item that you don't need to worry about someone else hitting buttons on the station.

I've used it a few times and most of the time its a waste of time because either people don't co operate (don't carry GPSes, refuse to stand still) or the round is over so fast that I've wasted my time building the damn thing.
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Re: Wish-granter ruin, does it grant antag status?

Post by D&B » #236831

Sure

1. Requires use of third party systems to use in its most basic form, experimentation being hard or too random for someone that has no idea if what they're doing
2. It has no counter unless someone stands posted in science and counts how many people print the necessary boards and then has another person follow whoever printed said boards.
3. The only hard part is building it, because God help you if the miners died early, you are not getting blue space crystals (circumvented by people looting the hotel for the artificial ones.)

If you want to use a hand teleporter to get in that means you'd have to have gotten a beacon inside in the first place.
Spoiler:
[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?
J_Madison wrote: that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you
ColonicAcid wrote:and with enough practise i too could blow my own dick so well that only the gods know how it feels.
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Re: Wish-granter ruin, does it grant antag status?

Post by Arianya » #236833

D&B wrote:Sure

1. Requires use of third party systems to use in its most basic form, experimentation being hard or too random for someone that has no idea if what they're doing
2. It has no counter unless someone stands posted in science and counts how many people print the necessary boards and then has another person follow whoever printed said boards.
3. The only hard part is building it, because God help you if the miners died early, you are not getting blue space crystals (circumvented by people looting the hotel for the artificial ones.)

If you want to use a hand teleporter to get in that means you'd have to have gotten a beacon inside in the first place.

1) To be fair, you can argue this about almost any system. Chemists use the wiki/a cheatlist because memorizing the recipes is a excercise in futility and experimenting for the chemicals is liable to get the CMO screaming at you. Same for Xenobio, everyone uses the wiki to figure out what extracts do what when injected with what, as well as what slimes to feed in order to get a certain colour slimes.

2) Similarly though, it takes even the fastest typer upwards of 5-10 seconds to figure out the required timings, so its not really good for "tactical insertions" unless you accept the person is going to stay there once they're in, since on the fly pickups are impossible unless you pre-agree a receive point. Possibly a way to give the system more of a "counter" would be to have handteles be able to lock on to a return location if they stand where telescience was used recently.

3) As I said, telescience is kinda useless by yourself, other then one way trips, so you still have the issue of needing a partner who you can trust to get you in and out. Almost no other system in the game requires co-operation to make the sytem itself usable.

Also, don't need a beacon to use a hand tele like that. Just hug up to the exterior wall (pretty easy once you know the layout) and activate the hand tele on nothing. Its luck of the draw, but you're still pretty likely to end up inside the final room.
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Re: Wish-granter ruin, does it grant antag status?

Post by D&B » #236835

1 and 2) Guides are often present in game for the basic stuff. Even if you look up the guide, the person doing the job is liable to be able to do the most basic without said third party tool. Not the case for telescience, which NEEDS the tool to be usable. Tactical insertions arent shit when the department with access to telescience also has access to toxins.

3) You don't need a partner to steal shit.

AFAIK hand teles and blue space crystals can't teleport you inside the prize room randomly. They're hard coded not to or something like that.
Spoiler:
[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?
J_Madison wrote: that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you
ColonicAcid wrote:and with enough practise i too could blow my own dick so well that only the gods know how it feels.
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christ110
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Re: Wish-granter ruin, does it grant antag status?

Post by christ110 » #236879

1, if you look on the tg station wiki, you will find easy to use formulas to use with a calculator to get the same result as a tool. (I am taking calculus, so maybe what's easy to me isn't easy for you.)
2, unless your an antagonist, you should be hard-pressed to find a reason to bomb anything with telescience, and comes back to the original issue that people move too damn fast.
3, no, you don't, but going through the meat grinder with your newly acquired antagonist status doesn't sound fun.

Besides, wasn't there a earlier wishgranter ruin with the granter in the middle of a 5x5 square of walls that requires telescience/blue space crystal luck to get.
Spoiler:
also, when I got the ruin, both times I was playing as hits-the-wizard, ring any bells?
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Re: Wish-granter ruin, does it grant antag status?

Post by D&B » #236884

1. Doesn't lessen the fact that this in game feature requires out of game knowledge to even be usable. As useless and random as it is, even the experimentor is learn able if you hit your head on it enough

2. Doesn't refute the fact that it still has no counter. How is an antagonist going to reliably do their objectives if their victim can be tracked by shit sensors and immediately robbed of their grasp? Even if this is an unlikely scenario, it still adds to the fact that neither antagonists nor sec can counter telescience unless extreme measures are taken.

3. Just have someone take back. This is not addressing what I mean, which was stealing from the station.

I wouldn't know any bells, sorry
Spoiler:
[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?
J_Madison wrote: that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you
ColonicAcid wrote:and with enough practise i too could blow my own dick so well that only the gods know how it feels.
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christ110
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Re: Wish-granter ruin, does it grant antag status?

Post by christ110 » #236888

1, you are right, for anything more then random and fun teleportation to god-knows-where, telescience need ooc info. But now we are back at the chemistry/xenobio level where if you want the best Chems or slimes, you gotta dive into the code or go to the wiki.
2, multiple things can be done to prevent telescience BS from stealing an antagonist objective, like doing it in the morgue or going to lavaland to fake out/avoid suit sensors.
3, sorry, I mis-understood as I would teleport in to grab something rather then teleport my toys to me, it's more reliable then the out of date coordinate maps.
Regardless, the telescience lab itself is stationary and of people notice something fucky, then science may suffer a lynch mob.
Also, a while ago, I suggested re-adding round-start telescience but if it seemed a little op, we could add something like blue space distortion field generators which do exactly what they sound like they do, make it impossible to teleport in.
(optional, add a upgrade to the telescience lab that lets it bypass them at the cost of maybe a few t4 scanners and lasers.)
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